In exposition Chell took over the Kitchen after Neelix left.
The REAL reason that Kes isn't a more beloved character...
- Thread starter JeremyLH
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In exposition Chell took over the Kitchen after Neelix left.
One of the best lines ever about Voyager is in the Tor.com rewatch of "Riddles". It states that "Voyager doesn't just push the reset button, it jumps up and down on it".
To that end, while Seven and the EMH were arguably exceptions, characters whose basic nature demanded evolution and development were affected the worst by this. Kes, by her nature, was supposed to experience a lifetime of growth and change in under a decade. Didn't work out well. Tuvok, outside of episodes like "Riddles" and "Meld" (where potential transformations in his character were erased at episode's end), was far better suited to such a format.
To that end, while Seven and the EMH were arguably exceptions, characters whose basic nature demanded evolution and development were affected the worst by this. Kes, by her nature, was supposed to experience a lifetime of growth and change in under a decade. Didn't work out well. Tuvok, outside of episodes like "Riddles" and "Meld" (where potential transformations in his character were erased at episode's end), was far better suited to such a format.
This may sound strange, but the one character that should not have much change during the show's run is Tuvok.
My reason for this is simple... given the length of Vulcan lifespans, and Tuvok hit 100 in season 6, it's doubtful he would have changed much in 7 years. A human, absolutely, because not only is 7 years a long time for us, but humans do not have the same emotional controls that Vulcans do. So we are affected more from less.
My reason for this is simple... given the length of Vulcan lifespans, and Tuvok hit 100 in season 6, it's doubtful he would have changed much in 7 years. A human, absolutely, because not only is 7 years a long time for us, but humans do not have the same emotional controls that Vulcans do. So we are affected more from less.
I don't agree with the notion that most characters didn't change much during those 7 years except EMH and 7.
Janeway, season 1: Highly insecure in her role as Captain, doesn't know how much distance she should keep from the crew, compensates by being overly militaristic.
Season 7: A woman that is confident in her role both as captain and as leader of the community that Voyager has become, knowing when to be strict and when to relax about matters
Chakotay S1: Somewhat fiery Maquis officer, sometimes willing to stand up for his crew, not afraid to voice his opinion to Janeway
S7 : Janeway's lapdog (his character arc is actually downward)
Tom Paris S1: a rogue, not being trusted by others and not trusting them in return
S7: Married, with responsibilities, dependable, even though he sometimes still has a trick up his sleeve.
B' Elanna S1: Angry young woman that keeps the entire world at arm's length, except perhaps for Chakotay and Seska.
S7. Has become much more comfortable in her role and life, married. Her problems aren't over by any stretch, but she seems to have gone a significant way in overcoming them.
Neelix S1: greedy schemer, is only in on the ride to see what's in there for him, and how he can benefit from the generosity of these aliens
S7: Perhaps Janeway's most loyal devotee, without even a Starfleet duty binding him to do so. Truly believes in the Starfleet cause
Kim: S1 Really green behind the ears
S7 Alternation between 'the green Ensign', and someone who has had his share of space adventure, sometimes taking the initiative so he certainly changed even if not always in a consistent way.
Kes : changes from optimistic young woman full of life to higher life form to angry and resentful mad b*tch . (OK, this one is not serious)
Tuvok really didn't change that much, I'll agree to that, but that may be understandable, given what Farscape One said.
Janeway, season 1: Highly insecure in her role as Captain, doesn't know how much distance she should keep from the crew, compensates by being overly militaristic.
Season 7: A woman that is confident in her role both as captain and as leader of the community that Voyager has become, knowing when to be strict and when to relax about matters
Chakotay S1: Somewhat fiery Maquis officer, sometimes willing to stand up for his crew, not afraid to voice his opinion to Janeway
S7 : Janeway's lapdog (his character arc is actually downward)
Tom Paris S1: a rogue, not being trusted by others and not trusting them in return
S7: Married, with responsibilities, dependable, even though he sometimes still has a trick up his sleeve.
B' Elanna S1: Angry young woman that keeps the entire world at arm's length, except perhaps for Chakotay and Seska.
S7. Has become much more comfortable in her role and life, married. Her problems aren't over by any stretch, but she seems to have gone a significant way in overcoming them.
Neelix S1: greedy schemer, is only in on the ride to see what's in there for him, and how he can benefit from the generosity of these aliens
S7: Perhaps Janeway's most loyal devotee, without even a Starfleet duty binding him to do so. Truly believes in the Starfleet cause
Kim: S1 Really green behind the ears
S7 Alternation between 'the green Ensign', and someone who has had his share of space adventure, sometimes taking the initiative so he certainly changed even if not always in a consistent way.
Kes : changes from optimistic young woman full of life to higher life form to angry and resentful mad b*tch . (OK, this one is not serious)
Tuvok really didn't change that much, I'll agree to that, but that may be understandable, given what Farscape One said.
While I agree that the lead characters of VOYAGER are not the same at the end as they were in the beginning, most of their development ground to a slow crawl starting with season 4.
Probably the best example of this is Chakotay. As stated above, he went from a good XO spoke his mind to being a 'Yes Man'. "SCORPION" was the last time ("EQUINOX, PART II" aside) we saw Chakotay actually disagree with her.
Janeway's issue was her actions seem to waffle from strict adherence to Starfleet rules to casual disregard of them. Possibly the quickest illustration of this is in season 3. In "REMEMBER", she has all energy saving the modifications taken out because the people they were transporting were hiding a holocaust. In the very next episode, "THE SWARM", she blatantly defies a sovereign power's territory without permission to get across space faster. (I know they aired a few weeks apart, but "THE SWARM" was filmed directly after "REMEMBER".) That kind of schizophrenic writing of her character was very apparent throughout the show's run. Change in a character can be a good thing, but that kind of haphazard decision making hurt her as a captain, I think. (I like Janeway, and Mulgrew did a great job with what she was given, but the writers really failed her in several ways. I've always felt that the multiple changes of head writer was a big factor... as proof, look at DS9 and how consistent they were with writing their characters. There was only one changeover in head writer there, and Behr was already gearing up to that in season 2.)
One thing I did think they did right was the slow build of Tom and B'Elanna. Growing from barely able to stand each other to a friendship to lovers to marriage... I thought they made it believable. I think they were learning from their DS9 counterparts with Dax and Worf, because you can see Jadzia definitely held a torch for him throughout season 4, culminating in their getting together at the beginning of season 5. (VOYAGER season 2 ran during DS9 season 4, then season 3 during DS9 season 5. Tom and Torres had almost no scenes together in season 2, and it was about 1/3 of the way into season 3 we really see hints of those two.)
Probably the best example of this is Chakotay. As stated above, he went from a good XO spoke his mind to being a 'Yes Man'. "SCORPION" was the last time ("EQUINOX, PART II" aside) we saw Chakotay actually disagree with her.
Janeway's issue was her actions seem to waffle from strict adherence to Starfleet rules to casual disregard of them. Possibly the quickest illustration of this is in season 3. In "REMEMBER", she has all energy saving the modifications taken out because the people they were transporting were hiding a holocaust. In the very next episode, "THE SWARM", she blatantly defies a sovereign power's territory without permission to get across space faster. (I know they aired a few weeks apart, but "THE SWARM" was filmed directly after "REMEMBER".) That kind of schizophrenic writing of her character was very apparent throughout the show's run. Change in a character can be a good thing, but that kind of haphazard decision making hurt her as a captain, I think. (I like Janeway, and Mulgrew did a great job with what she was given, but the writers really failed her in several ways. I've always felt that the multiple changes of head writer was a big factor... as proof, look at DS9 and how consistent they were with writing their characters. There was only one changeover in head writer there, and Behr was already gearing up to that in season 2.)
One thing I did think they did right was the slow build of Tom and B'Elanna. Growing from barely able to stand each other to a friendship to lovers to marriage... I thought they made it believable. I think they were learning from their DS9 counterparts with Dax and Worf, because you can see Jadzia definitely held a torch for him throughout season 4, culminating in their getting together at the beginning of season 5. (VOYAGER season 2 ran during DS9 season 4, then season 3 during DS9 season 5. Tom and Torres had almost no scenes together in season 2, and it was about 1/3 of the way into season 3 we really see hints of those two.)
^I agree that how Janeway was written was also highly inconsistent. But I still see the long-term change in her character that I described (even if there were wild fluctuations between episodes).
Chakotay talked Janeway out of going off with Seven in a shuttle to deal with the Omega modules on their own in The Omega Directive. Chakotay led the senior officers to mutiny against Janeway doing something that was obviously mad in Night. The episode where it's obvious that Chakotay doesn't do much when he disagrees with Janeway is Equinox II.
I agree that multiple changes of head writers was an issue. I think season 5 was about the point that the number of torpedos they'd fired got ridiculous. OTOH, by that point it's reasonable to assume that they got hold of more torpedos off screen.
Tom and B'Elanna's relationship was believable but from about Vis a Vis onwards B'Elanna seems to be the one doing all the work in their relationship and Tom doesn't seem to want to spend much time with her.
I was sad when Kes left, but I didn't miss her in the later seasons.
I just figure the torpedos couldn't be replaced, as in a starbase. They had to scrounge them or build them. They busted through the back of the shuttlebay and built an automated torpedo/shuttlecraft fabricating facility. Or they did it on the holodeck. "Computer activate program Utopia Planitia Shipyards." Anytime some straggler from another ship got added to the crew and then disappeared, like Borg kids or Equinox crew members, they'd been sent to the internment camp, I mean torpedo lab.
Oh yeah, and in regards to Kes, I just think she and Neelix didn't need to be regulars and more like DS9's supporting cast. I often compare her as the Jake Sisko of Voyager, as in she didn't have to be in every episode but could have had some unique stories specifically tailored to her, like how no one else could have done "Progress", or "Nor the Battle" or "In the Cards". But I liked Kes and as I've said, I was quite emotional when she was saying goodbye to Janeway and when she gave them a little push in "The Gift".
Oh yeah, and in regards to Kes, I just think she and Neelix didn't need to be regulars and more like DS9's supporting cast. I often compare her as the Jake Sisko of Voyager, as in she didn't have to be in every episode but could have had some unique stories specifically tailored to her, like how no one else could have done "Progress", or "Nor the Battle" or "In the Cards". But I liked Kes and as I've said, I was quite emotional when she was saying goodbye to Janeway and when she gave them a little push in "The Gift".
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