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The purpose of Deanna Troi

None of the ship positions (other than helm, captain and XO) were particularly well thought out at the time the show started. Ops? wtf is ops? Why does the security guard run communications? Who was down in the boiler room making the ship go?

None of the ship positions (other than helm, captain and XO) were particularly well thought out at the time the show started. Ops? wtf is ops? Why does the security guard run communications? Who was down in the boiler room making the ship go?

I can't recall which book it was in, but it was discussing the making of TNG and it said something about Roddenberry intentionally changed the bridge and the makeup of the senior staff in order to avoid direct comparisons to the TOS crew. This is why there wasn't a permanent chief engineer for the first season.

And the idea of a psychiatrist on board goes all the way back to the second TOS pilot with Liz Dehner.
 
None of the ship positions (other than helm, captain and XO) were particularly well thought out at the time the show started. Ops? wtf is ops? Why does the security guard run communications? Who was down in the boiler room making the ship go?

None of the ship positions (other than helm, captain and XO) were particularly well thought out at the time the show started. Ops? wtf is ops? Why does the security guard run communications? Who was down in the boiler room making the ship go?

I can't recall which book it was in, but it was discussing the making of TNG and it said something about Roddenberry intentionally changed the bridge and the makeup of the senior staff in order to avoid direct comparisons to the TOS crew. This is why there wasn't a permanent chief engineer for the first season.

And the idea of a psychiatrist on board goes all the way back to the second TOS pilot with Liz Dehner.
Wasn't Ops created because Data didn't look good in blue?

I think McCoy mentions he's a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist once or twice.
 
I think McCoy mentions he's a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist once or twice.
It seems that he is, though he doesn't like to say so:

From "Court Martial":
Areel Shaw: Doctor, you are, on the record, an expert in psychology, especially space psychology. Patterns which develop in the close quarters of a ship during long voyages in deep space.
McCoy: I know something about it.
McCoy to Edith Keeler in "The City on the Edge of Forever": I'm a surgeon, not a psychiatrist.

McCoy to Spock in "Friday's Child": I guess I'll forget psychiatry, stick with surgery.

Spock to "Janice Lester" (Kirk) in "Turnabout Intruder": At this moment Doctor McCoy is examining the captain for psychological changes.

Kirk to McCoy in "One of Our Planets Is Missing": Bones, I need an expert psychological opinion.
 
TROI OVERLOAD ALERT!

This character is being ridiculously over-analyzed. Marina Sirtis was hired to play a non-threatening sex object on the bridge. The whole "counselor" notion was contrived and flimsy. End of story.

Why no pictures of Troi in that hideous first-year samurai outfit and hairdo?
 
The good thing about B5 was that it brought up a different perspective on telepaths. It went into how telepaths had to restrict their telepathy to avoid absorbing the thoughts of others.
Is There In Truth No Beauty said:
MIRANDA: On Vulcan, I learned to do things impossible to learn anywhere else.
KIRK: To read minds?
MIRANDA: How not to read them, Captain.
KIRK: I don't understand.
SPOCK: Doctor Jones was born a telepath, Captain.
KIRK: Oh.
MIRANDA: Vulcan was necessary to my sanity.
SPOCK: What most humans generally find impossible to understand is the need to shut out the bedlam of other people's thoughts and emotions.
One might suggest that most Federation citizens lack of fear of telepaths was due to more experience with them. A more tolerant view, if you will.
Most of the telepaths we've seen on Star Trek consider it rude to read someone else's thoughts without permission, and most people seemed to feel that was guarantee enough. That's very much how Voyager handled it: more "primitive" cultures feared telepaths, but the crew just takes Tuvok's word that he won't try to read their minds without permission.
I should note that:
Yes, Lwaxana Troi often suggested that she was reading the thoughts of others. She was totally okay with seeming rude, knowing that she was only kidding. She would suggest that Picard was thinking some lascivious thing about her, and both she and Picard knew that wasn't true, so she wasn't actually violating a taboo, it merely looked that way to outsiders. And she got a bit of a kick out of that.
My own mother does similar things regularly (although without telepathy).

I remember a SF novel I read where the central character dated a telepath. When they became intimate, she explained that, like B5 and trek, telepathy training wasn't so much about learning how to read thoughts as how not to, how to shut them out. And, she explained, that was harder when the other person was thinking about you. And also harder when you were in physical contact.
The result was that, when they were having sex, she would keep up a running babble of everything she was thinking, because she was aware of everything he was thinking, and wanted to keep things fair. :)
[/quote]

I've always thought that such is a very weird way of conceptualizing telepaths, myself. Especially a telepath from a species of telepaths.

Being overwhelmed by the internal monologues of others would be like being overwhelmed by seeing people on the street or having a conversation with more than one other person or eating dinner with a group--no cognitively normal human would ever be bothered by these ordinary, everyday stimuli, so why should a cognitively normal telepath in a telepathic culture be imposed upon by nothing more than the run-of-the-mill thoughts of everyone in broadcast range?

There's also the practical and ethical questions of how and why a telepath would shut down their receptive faculties--to shut down my vision, I have to close my eyes. Then I run into walls. I would never choose to be blinded (unless she asked nicely and there was a safe word), so why would a telepath resign one of their primary modes of sensing the world for the vague convenience of others.

Now, a lot of these reflections don't find purchase with, say, Babylon 5's telepath model, because they're basically mutants who have not been exposed to selection pressures over thousands of generations, and hence some maladaptivity may be expected. And where Diane Muldaur got her esperness from is a question left open by "Is There in Truth No Beauty?", probably because it's a profoundly stupid idea for humans to have natural parapsychological abilities and the less it's explored, the better.

That said, I'd love to have someone explain to me how a telepath could ever subject me to anything other than a very cursory privacy violation involving whatever I happen to be thinking of at the moment, when whatever magnetic or electromagnetic effects which would affect my brain function would wipe hard drives, or just plain boil my skin off--and which would be even stronger at their epicenter, where stands the offending telepath. Probably involves quantums. ;)

For that matter, I'd like to have explained how a human like Riker can pick up thoughts broadcast at him. It's barely plausible enough that Betazoids can sense and parse human thoughts, in English, Japanese, or Punjabi, as the case may be,* because I can suspend my disbelief and pretend they have ridiculous sensitivity to IR and microwave emissions** or have intensely well-crafted biological SQUID-like organs, but where's Riker's antenna? Boo.

*It's ironic because this is the same show that in most other respects uses plausibility for toilet paper, but Heroes S1's Matt Parkman is actually one of the more interestingly limited and "realistic" fictional telepaths. He could only experience what was actually being thought by his target, thus leaving behind the unlikely notion that a telepath could activate the brain changes associated with memory recall remotely and without the target's awareness; and, additionally, he had no magical grasp of the language of his target's internal monologue, being easily baffled by HRG's ability to think in Japanese.

**The worst part about being an electromagnetically-based telepath might be the enormous background noise caused by technology, especially alien technology designed for use by low-frequency insensitives, e.g. the blackbody from a replicator or perhaps even radio communications.

Edit: Regarding specifically Troi, however, what the hell was up with the counselor having as one of her duties personnel evaluations? I don't know about you guys, but I doubt I'd speak very frankly to a therapist who is also responsible for deciding whether I get promoted or not. Maybe with the ubiquity of mind-rape lite that must be inherent with social interactions with telepaths, however, the two positions are no longer considered inimical, since everybody knows you have dreams about killing your mother anyway. : /
 
Forget Deanna's purpose, what was the stinking purpose of her mother, Majel Barrett's character? God that freaking bell, someone shove it where it won't make that sound anymore. Pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaassssssee make it stop!
 
Another reason... Perhaps they decided that Picard needed someone on the bridge to keep watch because after all he DID lose a ship prior to this assignment.

"We are going to assign someone to your bridge staff to evaluate you and your fitness for command after what happened previously... but to make it more palatable we'll give you a choice of who we assign to the task."
 
Troi definatly has a purpose, she went through Starfleet Academy, although she was attached to the Sciences Department, she would have had all the Tactical and Starship Operations Training like everyone else serving aboard, as a LT Commander, she would have earned that rank and even though people often joke about her crashing the Enterprise :P she obviously had piloting skills to take over at the helm in the first place

We also saw Troi take the Bridge Officers test, qualifying her as a full Commander (and perhaps allowing her the option to pursue Starship Command in the future)

Obviously people in the 24th century still require a Councellor, especially on Starships that carry families, Troi's purpose was to liase with the senior staff (since the senior staff were also department heads) about the officers and crewmen under their command

So in hindsight, Troi did have an important purpose
 
Troi definatly has a purpose, she went through Starfleet Academy, although she was attached to the Sciences Department, she would have had all the Tactical and Starship Operations Training like everyone else serving aboard, as a LT Commander, she would have earned that rank and even though people often joke about her crashing the Enterprise :P she obviously had piloting skills to take over at the helm in the first place

We also saw Troi take the Bridge Officers test, qualifying her as a full Commander (and perhaps allowing her the option to pursue Starship Command in the future)

Obviously people in the 24th century still require a Councellor, especially on Starships that carry families, Troi's purpose was to liase with the senior staff (since the senior staff were also department heads) about the officers and crewmen under their command

So in hindsight, Troi did have an important purpose

Great points, but as goes for many of the issues we discuss here, the show didn't bother to make those points so we have to fill them in.
 
The purpose of Deanna Troi was to make it clear that the Enterprise D was nothing but a giant flying social service agency.
 
Troi definatly has a purpose, she went through Starfleet Academy, although she was attached to the Sciences Department, she would have had all the Tactical and Starship Operations Training like everyone else serving aboard, as a LT Commander, she would have earned that rank and even though people often joke about her crashing the Enterprise :P she obviously had piloting skills to take over at the helm in the first place

We also saw Troi take the Bridge Officers test, qualifying her as a full Commander (and perhaps allowing her the option to pursue Starship Command in the future)

Obviously people in the 24th century still require a Councellor, especially on Starships that carry families, Troi's purpose was to liase with the senior staff (since the senior staff were also department heads) about the officers and crewmen under their command

So in hindsight, Troi did have an important purpose

I agree totally. Taking her out of a standard uniform led them to forget that she was not just an officer but a senior officer. After season one she rarely even got to play the role of diplomatic officer. In fact she would have been a more interesting and effective character without the empathic ability.
 
Troi's most important purpose was to be Picard's confidant.
Her role as a Councellor made it easier for him to get things off his chest and yet keep his distance and sense of being professional.

I dislike her as a character and think the show could've been more interesting without her,but she wasn't totally useless.
 
Troi was the ship's counselor, for 1,000 people (including spouses and children) serving and living aboard a starship that is supposed to be on a long-term mission going where no one has gone before. In addition to that her empathic ability made her a good advisor for Picard in (first contact) communications and negotations with other species. What else do you need to know?
 
Deanna Troi was very neccessary........she gave insight to situations and although she pointed out the obvious it was neccessary.

You needed somebody sort of calm and gentle like that in a high stress situation and although, in a rather sexist way, this is portrayed by the fact that she's a woman on a bridge mainly made up of men, it does work.

However I do hate what she used to wear........I'm not by any means prudish but the display of boobs was completoly unecessary and made her look less important- rather like somebody there to just look pretty instead of supporting the crew through stressful and sometimes traumatic experiences.
 
Is it really wise for a therapist to wear that much clevage? It feels like the patients would be distracted.
 
Yes, it was a very 80s thing to have the counselor on board and sitting on the bridge. I think they got better at writing for her and making her a more well rounded character in the later seasons.

-jwb-
jwbraun.com
What do you mean with "a very 80s thing"?

I too find Troi's character quite unbearable. Nevertheless, she has often proved useful when someone else was losing his mind. She'd come over and talk people out of their problems. I don't agree with considering her empathy as a mind rape. She senses emotions, what's beneath the surface but she doesn't read people's minds. As it seems, she also uses her faculties only when needed. Yesterday I saw TNG 5x09 "A Matter of Time". She senses Dr. Rasmussen is hiding something, which is quite useful in raising the first suspicions over this 22nd century con artist. She uses her skills to help, not to intrude people's lives.

Still, I cannot say I like her character. Personally I'd like it more if in TNG they solved such problems without "Bethazoid cheating", as they do in DS9 or VOY.
 
Betazoid telepathy as opposed to Troi's empathy was indeed and quite deliberately intrusive and played for laughs but it was a horrible concept. I agree that Troi served a purpose as counselor but it's a purpose that could have been served by a recurring guest star in about 8 episodes per season. As a regular they should have given her a more active, dual purpose related to her officer status.
 
One of the novels had a nice bit where O'Brien objects to Deanna joining the poker game. "Captain, I sense great bluffing..."
 
My problem with Troi is that she often seemed quite useless on the Bridge. Counseling the crew, sure, she was good, but "helping" the captain through tense negotiations or diplomatic situations? Epic FAIL! It was all, "Captain I sense hostility!" Well, duh, they're firing on the Enterprise, OF COURSE you sense hostility! Troi's "empathic" ability to sense emotions was entirely unimpressive; it was nothing more than a regular human could do from listening to someone's tone of voice and reading facial expressions.

Now, if she had actually been able to read specific thoughts, like "I'm going to fire a photon torpedo at your asses in 5 minutes," THAT would have been useful. Of course, in many cases, if she had been able to do that, the episode would have been over in 5 minutes, so I see the problem there. But still the whole "I sense [insert obvious emotion here]" didn't do her any favors.

It also didn't help that they didn't dress her in a standard uniform. While her outfits weren't as blatantly "sex kitten" as the TOS women's uniforms or Seven's catsuit, it didn't help her credibility to be dressed so "informally," especially when other females like Yar, Ro, Crusher, etc., were wearing proper uniforms. I was actually very pleased when they finally put her in a regular uniform all the time. Troi got better as the series progressed but her empathic "abilities" seemed rather laugable, especially when you compare her to full-on telepaths.
 
Being a hooker aside, Enara in Firefly is incredibly smart and perceptive. If Troi had indeed been able to sense hostility or lying using only body language, how much more impressive would her character have been? Making her an omniversal empath was a huge mistake. Callie in Blakes 7 was a telepath who could still be used in oh no my mind is being invaded plots but she could only send messages and it worked fine. In B5 the telepaths really struggled to scan people let alone casual scans and a telepathic scan was noticeable by the recipient - a far more interesting an limited ability. And of course Spock has to touch his 'victim' AND allow them access to at least some of his own thoughts - loads of possibilities there! Betazoids as a concept for a species are just terrible.
 
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