They do in fiction, which is also where the conveniently accurate shotgun marksman Frank Castle happens to exist. What I'm getting at is don't mistake fiction for reality or visa-versa or you'll be doing both a disservice.
The Punisher-- Marvel/Netflix
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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Go on Youtube and look up CQB or Close Quarters Combat and you will see that they are that accurate, especially at these close diatances. They have to be when they are about to rescue hostages and they are in the same room or place as the targets.
Special Forces expend more ammunition in training in a year than normal soldiers who have been in combat do in their entire career.. it doesn't make them superhuman and i don't say they won't miss but that level of training makes them extremely accurate, as accurate as a human being can be in a combat situation.
That he's shooting the place up and thus terrorizes the people is a different thing but then he's not called the Negotiator and people expect violence from that character.
For season 2: The Punisher vs the Priceline Negotiator!
Hi all, since NYCC - understandably - saw the cancellation of the Marvel-Netflix The Punisher panel, a few articles were published on it. It seems that critics have already seen some of the series. Sonia Saraiya, formerly Todd van der Werff's protegee at AV Club and now tv critic at Variety, writes:
This sounds good, and promising for the show. Saraiya's essay is also quite a thoughtful if short reflection on the panel being pulled, and on gun violence's role in hollywood. I imagine her review of the show will address these concerns more.
Further, that key tv critics have seen the show suggests it is close to airdate. Although this could be pushed back - again, understandably.
NOTE - this is a copy of post in a thread I accidently opened when I couldn't find this thread. Thanks to @Evil Headhunter for the update!
This sounds good, and promising for the show. Saraiya's essay is also quite a thoughtful if short reflection on the panel being pulled, and on gun violence's role in hollywood. I imagine her review of the show will address these concerns more.
Further, that key tv critics have seen the show suggests it is close to airdate. Although this could be pushed back - again, understandably.
NOTE - this is a copy of post in a thread I accidently opened when I couldn't find this thread. Thanks to @Evil Headhunter for the update!
It turns out it might have worked in their favor being cagey about the exact release date. I personally don't generally associate what I'm watching with what's happening in current events not even with like (9/11 and the towers) but I'm sensitive to people who do but don't know what the proper "waiting period" would be. When does "too soon" expire?
This io9 article, titled "There's Never Going to Be a 'Right Time' for The Punisher TV Series," sums up the issues I've always had with the character as well as the issues I already have with this show via the trailers. The author points out that the Punisher "works" in the second season of Daredevil because he was a secondary character and how that position framed his character with the overall story.
The final three paragraphs really drives home the point:
The final three paragraphs really drives home the point:
Part of what made Jon Bernthal’s performance as Castle work so well in Daredevil’s second season was that as a supporting character, he was able to be framed as more of a complicated villain than an antihero. It became easier to understand Castle’s motivations as he revealed more of his backstory to Daredevil, but the show made a conscious effort to keep the tension tight between himself, the police, and the city’s other vigilantes. Not only did it give the character an added layer of emotional complexity, it also served as a constant reminder that Frank Castle isn’t the sort of character meant to be looked up to. He’s a dangerous, broken, cautionary tale of a man who’s lost everything.
To make the Punisher the star of his own TV show is to valorize his character—and to ignore his potential as a symbol of and blueprint for an all too American kind of horrific violence. Those elements of his identity shouldn’t be erased; they should be pored over, deconstructed, and discussed in an open, honest way, as they were in Daredevil’s second season. Maybe Frank Castle’s solo TV series is looking to do the same—to establish him not as the MCU’s newest vigilante, but instead as a man who finds the ability to heal from his trauma without shooting up a city in the process.
But that’s a big “maybe,” especially given that the character has failed to do so for more than 40 years of comics, and it still won’t change the fact that the Punisher will always primarily be a “hero” that fights those he deems evil by riddling them with bullets. That might sound like a harsh assessment, but if Marvel and Netflix feel like even discussing The Punisherwould be in bad taste after a mass shooting, maybe that’s a sign they shouldn’t release it at all.
To make the Punisher the star of his own TV show is to valorize his character—and to ignore his potential as a symbol of and blueprint for an all too American kind of horrific violence. Those elements of his identity shouldn’t be erased; they should be pored over, deconstructed, and discussed in an open, honest way, as they were in Daredevil’s second season. Maybe Frank Castle’s solo TV series is looking to do the same—to establish him not as the MCU’s newest vigilante, but instead as a man who finds the ability to heal from his trauma without shooting up a city in the process.
But that’s a big “maybe,” especially given that the character has failed to do so for more than 40 years of comics, and it still won’t change the fact that the Punisher will always primarily be a “hero” that fights those he deems evil by riddling them with bullets. That might sound like a harsh assessment, but if Marvel and Netflix feel like even discussing The Punisherwould be in bad taste after a mass shooting, maybe that’s a sign they shouldn’t release it at all.
I tend to agree with that article. True, there have been a number of TV series whose lead characters have been villains and whose storylines have been morality plays about their downfall, like Breaking Bad (so I gather, never having seen it). So it may not necessarily be true that a Punisher series would treat him as a hero. But even if that's so, there are always going to be people who miss the point. And anything with such a strong focus on guns and military weaponry is troubling in the current climate.
As part of the build up for the show, I like to read a sample of his best stories. I found a lot of the early stuff did a decent job walking that line where his actions weren't quite glorified. There was sort of the sense that he was trapped in a cycle and is basically a crazy person. Other than that, it also just worked as a particular genre of fiction (usually crime noir). That all changed with Garth Ennis's run, which I found to be absolutely disgusting. That one was very much how heroic he is and how awesome it is that he kills people. After that, I gave up and decided not to finish the remaining stories I was going to read.
My understanding from interviews is they aren't planning on glorifying his actions. He's the protagonist, sure, but he won't necessarily be a hero. On top of that, they do seem to be playing up the military aspect of this, so it might come off as a story of the tragedy of war. So while I don't disagree with the article, there are at least ways to mitigate the tragedy of it all.
My understanding from interviews is they aren't planning on glorifying his actions. He's the protagonist, sure, but he won't necessarily be a hero. On top of that, they do seem to be playing up the military aspect of this, so it might come off as a story of the tragedy of war. So while I don't disagree with the article, there are at least ways to mitigate the tragedy of it all.
We have seen a shot in the trailers/publicity of an x-ray of a skull with a lesion of some sort in it. I'd forgotten about that aspect until you reminded me, but it's probably Castle's x-ray.
Release date: November 17th.
Also, a new trailer that focuses more on Frank's story and less on the "bang-bang-bang".
Also, a new trailer that focuses more on Frank's story and less on the "bang-bang-bang".
Finally, a day to begin. Not that I'll be able to but it'll be ready when I can get to it!!!
The second trailer is more promising, but I'm still wary about the whole thing. "I have to hunt them down and kill them!" doesn't help any either. I tentatively watch the season, but I may bail at any moment.
'The Punisher' has always been revenge centric. Indeed, the whole concept is clearly inspired by, and a send-up of the 'one-man-army urban vigilante revenge movies' of the 70's & 80's (Death Wish, Taxi Driver, First Blood etc.) Just as 'Luke Cage' was born out of blaxploitation cinema and 'Iron Fist' from the Kung-Fu Craze of the same (ish) era.
Not that such movies ever really went entirely out of fashion. 'Falling Down', 'Taken' & 'The Equalizer' all leap to mind. Point is, the tone and content is part and parcel. One may as well complain about all the film noir gumshoe tropes in 'Jessica Jones', crazy sorcery in 'Doctor Strange' or all the cliche spy shenanigans in 'Agents of SHIELD'.
Admittedly, some comic book authors took the idea a little too seriously and forgot the tongue-in-cheekiness of the premise and went so far as to lionise Frank's outlook, while others went too far in the opposite direction and basically turned him into GI Joe. But then what long running comic book character hasn't seen such extreme interpretations over the decades?
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November 17? Isn't that pretty much the exact date that was rumored about 5-6 months ago? How very odd that the release date was shrouded in such secrecy and then turned out to be the obvious date that everyone was expecting in the first place.
I'm kind of hoping we'll get a few different viewpoints on the Punisher during this series. Maybe one episode will leave us cheering "yeah, kill those bad guys, Frank!", while a different one might have us worried "Frank, what are you doing?"
I'm kind of hoping we'll get a few different viewpoints on the Punisher during this series. Maybe one episode will leave us cheering "yeah, kill those bad guys, Frank!", while a different one might have us worried "Frank, what are you doing?"
Is it really that odd? I seem to remember that the other Netflix Marvel shows tended to announce their release dates fairly late.
And I can see why they might want to hedge their bets about release dates. For a season that drops all at once, they need to have the whole thing finished before they can firmly settle on a release date. They may have a target date set internally, but there's always the chance that the production or post-production might face delays of one sort or another, so it makes sense to hold off on announcing the date until they're sure they can meet it.
I expected it to be the long weekend before, not the same weekend as Justice League.
A.V. Club's season review (first six episodes) gives me hope for the show. There does appear to be some balance and grounding involving the violence and Frank isn't left off the hook as a vigilante it sounds like. I'm cautiously optimistic and willing to give it a try.
The Marvel shows on Netflix have been very good at giving a balanced view of the issues, neither glorifying things or taking sides.
Looking forward to this. It'll be a while though. Haven't even seen The Defenders yet.
Looking forward to this. It'll be a while though. Haven't even seen The Defenders yet.