The proposed Season 5

[Sci]

Kegek said:

Sci said:
1) The novels have usually respected canonical deaths. They didn't try to work Jadzia back into the DS9 Relaunch, for instance, nor have they tried to bring Data back into the post-NEM TNG novels.

Jadzia isn't a good example, as she was worked back onto the show as Ezri.

Hardly. Jadzia and Ezri are very different characters.

Data is a better one, and the novels I understand have purposefully ignored the backdoor that B-4 provides. Still, I'll counter you Trip and raise you Kirk.

And I'll counter by pointing out that Kirk is only depicted as being resurrected in the Shatnerverse novels, and by pointing out that Kierran Duffy remains dead. And now they've

Spoiler: Before Dishonor

gone and killed Janeway!

2) Under the scenerio you're proposing, they would have had six years' worth of stories to feature Trip in between "Terra Prime" and "These Are the Voyages...," so there would have been no need to "work him back in" if he had not yet left.

Yes, but they clearly found that scenario inadequate. They had six years where little changed and no real fruitition came to Trip and T'Pol, it would have been a dull time to see. So they scrapped it.

Hardly. I can think of a lot of different, interesting stories that could have been dramatic and insightful and good reads in the hands of a talented writer -- what was going on with the Klingons? How did the Romulan War start? What role did the Coalition play in the war? What kind of intrigues were going on in the United Earth government? What role did the Vulcans and Andorians play in creating the Federation? What role did Section 31 play? Etc. -- that could all have ended in the same place that the characters found themselves in in the TATV holoprogram.

The issue wasn't, "Oh, we just don't like the fact that the book was closed." The issue was, "This book was closed very, very badly, so we're going to re-open it, add more chapters, and then close it again at a later date."

 

[DumbDumb2007]

a 5th Season of Enetrprise would have been a ratings winner. The show was shaping up and i rdcall while it was shaky in the ratings the ratings weren't half bad.
It was just a management decision to pull the plug and create and maintain hunger for " The Next Trek..."

 

[Sci]

DumbDumb2007 said:
a 5th Season of Enetrprise would have been a ratings winner. The show was shaping up and i rdcall while it was shaky in the ratings the ratings weren't half bad.
It was just a management decision to pull the plug and create and maintain hunger for " The Next Trek..."

No. ENT's ratings went upwards at first during the Brent Spiner episodes, but the remaining episodes of Season Four just had ratings that got worse and worse. ENT was losing money, period. In point of fact, the only reason it hadn't been canceled at the end of Season Three was that Paramount decided that they'd make more money in the long term if they produced around 100 episodes for syndication than if they were to end up with only 80 or so episodes that couldn't be syndicated.

Bottom line: ENT was canceled because it wasn't getting sufficiently large ratings for advertisers to be willing to pay enough money for ad time for Paramount and UPN to profit from its production. It was, in short, losing money.

 

[MattJC]

It didn't help that UPN didn't advertise the show at all and Les moonves having distastse in sci fi in general..

 

[HRHTheKING]

a 5th Season of Enetrprise would have been a ratings winner. The show was shaping up and i rdcall while it was shaky in the ratings the ratings weren't half bad.
It was just a management decision to pull the plug and create and maintain hunger for " The Next Trek..."

The ratings were a disaster BEFORE the show was moved to Friday. However way you try to spin it, ENT was beyond all salvation.

It didn't help that UPN didn't advertise the show at all and Les moonves having distastse in sci fi in general..

Yawn, the conspiracy theories are still being used huh?

 

[Kegek]

Sci said:
Hardly. Jadzia and Ezri are very different characters.

And your point is? She's a resurrected version of Jadzia, but also a reworked one, per pre-established Trill concepts of symbiont and host.

And I'll counter by pointing out that Kirk is only depicted as being resurrected in the Shatnerverse novels, and by pointing out that Kierran Duffy remains dead.

Inter-continuity is moot. Those who want to see Shatner back, like those who want Kirk, have their fix. And who the hell is Kieran Duffy? Is he a novel-only character, because if he is, I don't think that's a fair comparison (as I'm discussing characters on the show being resurrected in the novels).

My understanding of

Spoiler: Before Dishonor

Janeway was assimilated to become the Borg Queen. Is there any way to reverse that, because if there is, I wouldn't be surprised if they do it at a later date.

The issue wasn't, "Oh, we just don't like the fact that the book was closed." The issue was, "This book was closed very, very badly, so we're going to re-open it, add more chapters, and then close it again at a later date."

Presumably, of course, because they feel they can tell a better story this way than respecting TATV. I'll concede, though, that if the episode was popular they probably would respect it.

 

[J47]

Kegek said:
My understanding of

Spoiler: Before Dishonor

Janeway was assimilated to become the Borg Queen. Is there any way to reverse that, because if there is, I wouldn't be surprised if they do it at a later date.

Certainly that's accurate, however

Spoiler: Before Dishonor

Janeway does die at the end of the novel. Of course there's every likelihood they'll bring her back in the Destiny crossover, but for now she is dead.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Kegek said:

Sci said:
Hardly. Jadzia and Ezri are very different characters.

And your point is? She's a resurrected version of Jadzia, but also a reworked one, per pre-established Trill concepts of symbiont and host.

And I'll counter by pointing out that Kirk is only depicted as being resurrected in the Shatnerverse novels, and by pointing out that Kierran Duffy remains dead.

Inter-continuity is moot. Those who want to see Shatner back, like those who want Kirk, have their fix. And who the hell is Kieran Duffy? Is he a novel-only character, because if he is, I don't think that's a fair comparison (as I'm discussing characters on the show being resurrected in the novels).

Duffy was in at least one episode of TNG. I forget which one. It may be the episode where REginald Barclay first appears.

 

[HRHTheKING]

Hollow Pursuits.

 

[ALF]

HRHTheKING said:
Hollow Pursuits.

Are you referring to the Broccoli episode, The Riker's a Cook episode or the subject matter being discussed in this here thread, I reckon?

 

[HRHTheKING]

Maybe all three.

 

[Jax]

HRHTheKING said:

a 5th Season of Enetrprise would have been a ratings winner. The show was shaping up and i rdcall while it was shaky in the ratings the ratings weren't half bad.
It was just a management decision to pull the plug and create and maintain hunger for " The Next Trek..."

The ratings were a disaster BEFORE the show was moved to Friday. However way you try to spin it, ENT was beyond all salvation.

It didn't help that UPN didn't advertise the show at all and Les moonves having distastse in sci fi in general..

Yawn, the conspiracy theories are still being used huh?

If ENT didn't move to fridays then I bet the ratings would of improved and by the end of the 4th season it would of gotten into the 5 million range to which UPN wanted for a 5th season.

 

[HRHTheKING]

NX_01 Mark said:

HRHTheKING said:

a 5th Season of Enetrprise would have been a ratings winner. The show was shaping up and i rdcall while it was shaky in the ratings the ratings weren't half bad.
It was just a management decision to pull the plug and create and maintain hunger for " The Next Trek..."

The ratings were a disaster BEFORE the show was moved to Friday. However way you try to spin it, ENT was beyond all salvation.

It didn't help that UPN didn't advertise the show at all and Les moonves having distastse in sci fi in general..

Yawn, the conspiracy theories are still being used huh?

If ENT didn't move to fridays then I bet the ratings would of improved and by the end of the 4th season it would of gotten into the 5 million range to which UPN wanted for a 5th season.

Nah, it was dead and buried. The supposed greatness of season four was little more than fanboyish crap IMO. There was NO way back for that show. It's a shame. I had high hopes for it. But the promising prequel concept was botched by the Blunder Twins in almost every way possible.

 

[pookha]

the end part of season three got better ratings then the end part of season two so the ratings before the shift to friday were on an upswing.
plus the show got hurt bad by the weekend showings not being counted in the ratings, something they just started doing this season for shows.

 

[Anna Yolei]

HRHTheKING said:

It didn't help that UPN didn't advertise the show at all and Les moonves having distastse in sci fi in general..

Yawn, the conspiracy theories are still being used huh?

Despite ENT's failure ratings-wise, he does have a point.Les Moonves is a goddamn moron who has killed good shows and pimped shit ones like Big Brother for ratings--or in the case of Judging Amy and Joan of Arcadia, because they weren't getting the *right* ratings. . He even killed Jericho when it lost viewers between the three month break in which there were no re-runs and no promotion whatsoever, and this show was the highest-rated one they'd had in it's timeslot in years. Thankfully, enough fans got up in arms to get it another six-episode ( ) season in February.

That being said, Trek ratings had been on the down slide since DS9. Enterprise could have hit every right note season four, and probably have gotten the same results. There was no one of any power left to go up to back for Trek anymore and Enterprise had lousy revenue on a network that was undergoing some image growing pains already. It was gonna go even if the ratings stayed the same from season three.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Jack Bauer said:

Kegek said:

Sci said:
Hardly. Jadzia and Ezri are very different characters.

And your point is? She's a resurrected version of Jadzia, but also a reworked one, per pre-established Trill concepts of symbiont and host.

And I'll counter by pointing out that Kirk is only depicted as being resurrected in the Shatnerverse novels, and by pointing out that Kierran Duffy remains dead.

Inter-continuity is moot. Those who want to see Shatner back, like those who want Kirk, have their fix. And who the hell is Kieran Duffy? Is he a novel-only character, because if he is, I don't think that's a fair comparison (as I'm discussing characters on the show being resurrected in the novels).

Duffy was in at least one episode of TNG. I forget which one. It may be the episode where REginald Barclay first appears.

There was a Duffy who was assigned to engineering, seen in "Hollow Pursuits" and then mentioned a few times (BOBW) but never seen on-screen again. However, I think the Kierren Duffy being mentioned is Kierren McDuffy the alien who posed as the ship's first officer in "Conundrum," where the crew's memory was wiped and the awoke to find themselves in the middle of a war with an inferior enemy. He was killed by Worf and Riker at the end of the episode.

 

[Kegek]

^
I believe he was called MacDuffy. Anyway, whichever character Sci is talking about he's virtually a nobody, so I fail to see the point either way.

 

[J47]

Like Sonya Gomez and quite a few other characters, Duffy became a major character in the Star Trek: Starfleet Corps of Engineers/Corps of Engineers e-book series.

Spoiler: Corps of Engineers

However Duffy was killed off in a two-parter and the editors/writers have made no attempt since then to bring him back.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Kegek said:
^
I believe he was called MacDuffy. Anyway, whichever character Sci is talking about he's virtually a nobody, so I fail to see the point either way.

It is a fallacy in his argument as the topic is on regulars being killed off, and MacDuffy was a one off character that wasn't even really in Starfleet or a real member of the cast.

 

[J47]

middyseafort said:

Kegek said:
^
I believe he was called MacDuffy. Anyway, whichever character Sci is talking about he's virtually a nobody, so I fail to see the point either way.

It is a fallacy in his argument as the topic is on regulars being killed off, and MacDuffy was a one off character that wasn't even really in Starfleet or a real member of the cast.

It might be a fallacy were he referring to MacDuffy, but seeing as he was referring to the Duffy of "Hollow Pursuits," who was (as I noted in my above post) introduced as a regular character in the Starfleet Corps of Engineers series (much as Shelby, Lefler and Selar, plus Arex and M'Ress, were added to New Frontier), it is a valid argument, if not a "canon" one.