Damned if you do, damned if you don't....
The problem with Voyager wasn't the characters but the premise
- Thread starter DarthTom
- Start date
Saquist
Commodore
I didn't have any thoughts on the problems of Voyager.
I don't get bent out of shape on mediocre shows because there are plenty of bad shows that actually deserve to get bent out of shape on.
Voyager wasn't the greatest show on Earth. But it started off strong...and just like DS9...it got weak at the end. (shrug) They kept going to that same barrel of tricks... You're right. Doctor, Seven, Doctor, Seven, Time Travel, Seven.
In my estimation it wasn't a bad show. I don't harp on it. It's actually a nice addition to Trek Legacy and kept the 24th century going just for a little bit more.
Agreed.... while I understand they had bio packs to make the ship's computers more advanced then say Enterprise D or Defiant, and they used the replicator rations idea to conserve their resources, and they got Neelix to do the cooking for the entire crew.... they eventually ran out of Quantum Torpedoes... yet could continually replicate photon torpedoes?
And yeah, they did go through a pile of shuttle craft, that either crashed, blew up, got taken by an alien ship, etc. etc.... but they always seemed to have a couple more to spare each time..... just last night we watched "Drone" and the shuttle craft got stuck in a nebula and the crew had to be transported out..... another ship lost, but that's ok... Voyager will just magically poop another one out in the next episode.
Another thing that started to bug me about Voyager was around Seasons 4 and 5, the episodes would just cut off to the credits after the final action scene..... in TOS, TNG and DS9, they always had this little pow wow with a couple of crew members reflecting on what just happened, the morals of the story, etc. etc...... but right around the middle of Season 4, they'd solve their problem, and then you'd see the ship fly off with the credits rolling..... talk about blue balling the viewer.
TOS did it for the Klingons/Romulans in five eps or less.
Well I'm not personally complaining, because I never bothered to watch BSG, nor do I have an interest in doing so.... I think it has something to do with the fake swearing.
Added:
I think Voyager would have been a lot better if they made it into a series that jumped another generation further beyond DS9 and into newer technology, venturing beyond our own galaxy (besides just another quadrant of it) where it was established that the quadrants and all their aliens were already introduced during that span of time from DS9 to Voy..... but I suppose that's something for another thread.
So said the Vorta in DS9's "Rocks & Sholes": "I've heard about your magical Starfleet Engineers that can turn rocks into replicators." They've already told us, don't put to much thought into it. Just except it is what it is.
Seriously, we've seen from Scotty to Be'Lanna that Starfleet Engineers can make the impossable possable. So I don't find it hard to believe with that established, between Tuvok-Chief of Security, Harry Kim -Jr. Engineer & Be'Lanna -Engineer and former terrorist outlaw and all their staff that they can't build a torpedo or a shuttle. Hell, you can go on the internet in today's age and download plans to make a bomb. We've seen Harry build a brand new device that opens a rift in time in "Now & Again". How the hell could he do that and not know how to build a shuttle? Be'lanna built a brand new power source for a robotic lifeform she's never seen before in "Prototype". They adapted Borg technology into their systems, which is an amalgam of other tech. created from alien tech forigen to the Alpha Q and made it work. They can do all this but can't read blueprints from their own computer systems to create their own technology?
Seriously, we've seen from Scotty to Be'Lanna that Starfleet Engineers can make the impossable possable. So I don't find it hard to believe with that established, between Tuvok-Chief of Security, Harry Kim -Jr. Engineer & Be'Lanna -Engineer and former terrorist outlaw and all their staff that they can't build a torpedo or a shuttle. Hell, you can go on the internet in today's age and download plans to make a bomb. We've seen Harry build a brand new device that opens a rift in time in "Now & Again". How the hell could he do that and not know how to build a shuttle? Be'lanna built a brand new power source for a robotic lifeform she's never seen before in "Prototype". They adapted Borg technology into their systems, which is an amalgam of other tech. created from alien tech forigen to the Alpha Q and made it work. They can do all this but can't read blueprints from their own computer systems to create their own technology?
^^^
I don't much about BSG or these Cylons, but even speaking as a huge VOY fan, I would've been happy to see the Kazon as little as possible!
Besides, their tech is far outclassed by Starleet's, wasn't even their own design, and they knew little about tech or how to build anything good: they killed themselves trying to use a stolen replicator! Plus they're always grumpy and have funny-looking hair.
Not really, no. That's really just an exaggeration. In those episodes, they really don't come off as the deepest most explored species' out there.
Plus, both species were not brand new aliens they were past enemies of the Feds with an already existing-history that was covered in background speech by the characters. So it wasn't establishing a new alien species as much as them already being established while the audience is brought up to speed.
But yeah, look how long it took DS9 to properly cover the Cardassians and the Dominion. Those were just TWO aliens, and the Cardassians already had their beginnings in TNG so it was another "build an existing alien up" case!
But complaints are that VOY should have been able to create 6 or so fully-fleshed out species in like 13 episodes...
I do think some parts of Voyager suffered for being constantly on the move but I also think parts of DS9 suffered from being constantly in one place.
I enjoyed the Marquis storyline but it could have been longer. I think adding some Cardassians to the mix would have been interesting but it might have been conflict overkill.
I didn't really mind that Voyager had underdeveloped aliens because it had other things going for it. DS9 did have some fab villains so that's what I watch if I'm in the mood for some darker trek but Voyager is funnier. Voyager could have been darker if it had been going around as messed up as it probably should have been but I liked it campy, I saw enough broken Voyager in Year of Hell. I kind of like the stupid errors and convenient plot devices to keep everything the same. It's like how you know House can never cure the patient in the first 10min.
I enjoyed the Marquis storyline but it could have been longer. I think adding some Cardassians to the mix would have been interesting but it might have been conflict overkill.
I didn't really mind that Voyager had underdeveloped aliens because it had other things going for it. DS9 did have some fab villains so that's what I watch if I'm in the mood for some darker trek but Voyager is funnier. Voyager could have been darker if it had been going around as messed up as it probably should have been but I liked it campy, I saw enough broken Voyager in Year of Hell. I kind of like the stupid errors and convenient plot devices to keep everything the same. It's like how you know House can never cure the patient in the first 10min.
The Ferengi did have some boring episodes but they also had some really funny ones. Quark is one of my fav characters. I like that the Ferengi are so different to all the other aliens on Trek. My least favourite episodes were Jake Sisko episodes and a few Captain Sisko episodes suffered from bad acting. Also Worf being a big grump was annoying. Quark is the sort of character I always like, seems like a bad guy at first but you realise he's nice on the inside. I really liked the Cardassian/Bajoran tension on DS9, being stuck in one place did give DS9 the chance for some really great recurring characters Gul Dukat being one of the best imo. Voyager did quite well with Seska as a baddie but she was no Gul Dukat, she just seemed mental. Perhaps it would have been more interesting if she had stayed aboard Voyager.
Let's see...we had the Excelsior exploring the Beta Quadrant.
We had numerous Federation starships and runabouts exploring and roaming the Gamma Quadrant prior to the Dominion War.
We had two Starfleet ships lost in the Delta Quadrant (albeit they weren't brought there by their own power, they still count as being outside the Alpha Quadrant).
There's nothing onscreen to support any of that.
The Neutral Zone only keeps Federation and Romulan ships from crossing into each other's territory, but everything else is apparently fair game. The Neutral Zone seems to exist only where Federation and Romulan space collide. Otherwise, Federation ships can freely cross over into the Beta Quadrant--and presumably, Romulan ships into the Alpha Quadrant--as long as they don't violate the other's space.
The peace treaty with the Dominion had no said provision keeping the Federation out of the Gamma Quadrant. It did however, state that hostilities between the Federation and the Dominion were over. Presumably, Federation ships can once again explore the Gamma Quadrant now that the Founders know the Federation never had any intent to invade and enslave them.
That's because they hadn't discovered the wormhole yet. Once they had a way to the Gamma Quadrant, the Federation didn't waste any time sending ships there.
But this is really neither here nor there, really.
Space is big and three-dimensional, even the "local space" where most of Trek takes place in. There's no reason to think that the Federation is the only nation to send ships into unexplored or alien territory.
Who was months away from any Federation outposts or patrolling ship?
What about "The Visitor"?
Everyone says The Visitor was a great episode but I wasn't fussed. I didn't really feel sad for Jake, I felt like things were pretty much better for everyone without Captain Sisko. But I did watch it out of order so I was busy thinking "hey what about the war with the dominion" and "aww Jadzia lives to old age" so that ruined the episode a little for me. I didn't hate the episode but I don't get why everyone loves it. I thought Nor the Battle to the Strong was a better Jake episode. The Jake/Nog episodes were the worst, the episode when he is trying to get his dad a baseball card was awful. Captain Sisko was being really obviously depressed, sighing loudly and hanging his head then Jake acted like only he could tell that the Captain was depressed when he might as well have been holding a sign saying "I am depressed". Sorry for the rant.
I still don't see what this has to do with the complaint about finding the Talaxians deep in the DQ?
Fair enough. If you don't like 'em, you don't like 'em.
But DS9's premise was set amongst Cardassians, Bajorans, Ferengi. So like it or not, they're gonna be around in pretty much all the eps. But at least DS9 stuck with it's premise/setting.
OTOH, VOY would set up some premise and then conveniently and/or mysteriously disregard it, whether you liked it or not.
Probably because they couldn't afford to continue it, or Executive Meddling made them drop it.
I suppose you're referring to how the ship would get damaged but be okay by next episode? VOY was ordered to not do arcs, or maintain damages. You expect some 10 episode arc from some one event in one episode, you're watching the wrong show.
I suppose you're referring to how the ship would get damaged but be okay by next episode? VOY was ordered to not do arcs, or maintain damages. You expect some 10 episode arc from some one event in one episode, you're watching the wrong show.
The show that person wants is Stargate Universe?
We spent a season using the scientists as a metaphor for the Maquis that continued on as a grating saw as they failed to get along, and then come the final season, actual honest to god terrorists board the ship and in all likeliness a fair amount of them are going to stay on after the stop killing each other... Creating three factions at each others throats.
The universe producers are seriously using Voyager as a "How Not to guide" while thieving it blind of plot.
We spent a season using the scientists as a metaphor for the Maquis that continued on as a grating saw as they failed to get along, and then come the final season, actual honest to god terrorists board the ship and in all likeliness a fair amount of them are going to stay on after the stop killing each other... Creating three factions at each others throats.
The universe producers are seriously using Voyager as a "How Not to guide" while thieving it blind of plot.
Funny, because I LIKE Stargate Universe.
But, in Universe the civilians (aside from Eli and Rush) are all but useless. Plus, they don't have to work together to survive because the ship runs itself and they just have to use the stargate to go to planets and get food/water. And they could communicate with Earth from the pilot onwards!
But, in Universe the civilians (aside from Eli and Rush) are all but useless. Plus, they don't have to work together to survive because the ship runs itself and they just have to use the stargate to go to planets and get food/water. And they could communicate with Earth from the pilot onwards!
