Yeah, the comic book companies just went where they could make more money. And it wasn't with the newsstands...
The Problem with the Comic Book Industry
- Thread starter Andonagio
- Start date
That's possible, I suppose; I'm not familiar with the Malibu situation that you cite. I don't understand why it would be a problem, though. The newspapers around here print in color, including color photographs, and color Sunday Comics, on newsprint and they look fine-- even the photos generally look better than most of the current Comic Books.
It was really just a case that it looked really horrible on the old paper and some colors didn't come out the way they were supposed to be (too many people had totally red or very dark faces). These were corrected when they switched to better paper. It could be said that the old paper just wasn't up to what the comic book companies wanted to do with their new coloring toys.
As I said before, newspapers are a different industry and still more or less do things the the old-fashioned way, even with the incorporation of digital photography and desktop publishing. The production of newspaper comic strips is still relatively simple and inexpensive. The production of comic books aren't.
But switching to old paper and older coloring and printing techniques is pointless if the big boys are still going to charge customers the same price for comics--if not more for doing so. The business model and corporate mindset has got to change too.
Considering that people in the industry keep saying on the comic forums that the 'more money' prospect was all about comic shops not doing returns, the comic companies believing the no return policy would ensure higher sales, and Diamond Distributers being the only distributer to take advantage of the situation, to the point they demanded contractual exclusivity of distribution to make certain they were the only ones making money, screwing the comic companies in the process, I must disagree.
Diamond is the largest problem the industry has right now, barring stupid writing and artistic decisions at the big two. But the easily solved problem of turning back to the old printing methods would go a long way toward getting it through the big two's mutual thick skull that the only way they're going to continue to stay in business is to recruit new readers,and the only way to do that is to write material appropriate for new readers, meaning stories that parents would be willing to let their children read, and putting those books in a market where new readers can find them.
Then they also need to give up the new coloring toys. It doesn't really look that great on the new paper, either.
Personally, I wish they would go back to the old ways myself. I'm looking right now at a copy of Comic Shop News, the free comics mag handed out at shops each week, and stuff looks great on the cheaper paper (including scans of comic book covers and other promotional artwork)--but then they're also using a printing method that's appropriate for it as well. The downside, however, is that the cheaper paper wrinkles like crazy if you're not careful with it, but one can manage that.
IMO, comics could go back to being fairly inexpensive and cheaper-to-produce items like Comic Shop News or local newspapers, but the big players don't seem inclined to do so.
^^ Right, I forgot about Comic Shop News. That's the perfect example. We need to send copies to Joe Quesada and whoever's the boss at DC now. 
That would be Dan Didio. But I don't think they'd pay attention. They're too busy masturbating to the sound of catering to an ever shrinking readership.
I'm sure they're spending more time trying to figure out how to make money online so they can stop publishing print books altogether.
Causing the audience to shrink even more. Bleah.
People in the industry wont listen to such things, they will press onwards into the digital way, in the vain hope of suddenly becoing "mainstream" etc... Waste of time money and effort.
I haven't read through all of the posts in this thread so I admit I may have missed a few things but...
RJ I did like fifteen multi-quotes to try and explain a few things about printing. But it became a jumbled up mess so I deleted all of it and condensed it down into this. Four pass coloring on newspaper stock is a fine medium in itself. I have no argument with that. However, newspaper stock is VERY messy to use. It creates large amounts of dust and the presses also require constant adjusting because the paper tends to stretch during printing runs. The color passes are also a bit cumbersome and do not have the ability to transfer and maintain fine details in the drawings. Basically, it may be cheaper but it limits what you can do color wise and detail wise. As an illustrator myself, I understand why they switched. I could deal with limiting the palette but I won't compromise on my detailing. And just for the record, the digital printing process they are using now is not all that expensive anymore. New cheaper inks and improved printers have dropped the prices down to about half of what they were a decade ago.
But the reason why I am posting here was not about the printing. It was about my recent re-immersion back into the comic world. I stopped reading comic books more than a decade ago. I lost interest and didn't have the time. But recently I pulled out my copy of Watchman and started rereading it. I love it, always have and always will. It had an excellent story and the characters were fascinating. I also adore the artwork. It is simple but effective.
I also found out recently that they had started publishing a new Flash Gordon comic. Well I am huge fan of the character and had to see what it was all about, despite being almost two years late to the party. After reading several glowing reviews, I eagerly bought them at the local comic store and couldn't wait to see what they had done. I was not impressed. The story was iffy, the character designs were silly, the characters themselves were two-dimensional and the pages were a mess to follow. I had to go back and reread several of the books just to follow what happened! (And just because you make the chick tough does not give you license to draw her with breast so big she couldn't safely drive a car. And I can't take the females seriously if they always pout and glare through their Jessica Rabbit hair. But that is more of a personal preference.)
Normally I am all about new ways of doing things, especially if it frees up the artists. The colors, textures and atmosphere they are able to introduce now is amazing. But all the glitz and flash just can't make-up for a complete lack of story. If I compare Watchman to this new comic, I see the limitations of the illustrations of the older book. However, the writing makes up for it in spades! So what if the graphic novel is relegated to old fashioned pen and ink drawing with simple colors and no textures. The story makes it shine. And the only thing shining in this new Flash comic is either the paper or the illustrator's gratuitous use of the lens flare tool in Photoshop.
So my thoughts on the problem with the industry: the writing and current layout technique is just awful. I would gladly pay $5 for a book if I knew I was getting something worth $5. Instead I paid good money for a rehash of something they did on Babylon 5 a decade ago that I had to read twice because I kept missing information the first time. And from what I have seen (yes I went back to the comic store for more books), it looks to be an epidemic and not just limited to poor Flash Gordon. They want to revitalize? Start being creative and stop repackaging the same old thing with a new coat of (darker) paint. And fresh and interesting does not mean giving a character a new backstory. It means pushing the character into new places and situations, one that the audience can relate with.
RJ I did like fifteen multi-quotes to try and explain a few things about printing. But it became a jumbled up mess so I deleted all of it and condensed it down into this. Four pass coloring on newspaper stock is a fine medium in itself. I have no argument with that. However, newspaper stock is VERY messy to use. It creates large amounts of dust and the presses also require constant adjusting because the paper tends to stretch during printing runs. The color passes are also a bit cumbersome and do not have the ability to transfer and maintain fine details in the drawings. Basically, it may be cheaper but it limits what you can do color wise and detail wise. As an illustrator myself, I understand why they switched. I could deal with limiting the palette but I won't compromise on my detailing. And just for the record, the digital printing process they are using now is not all that expensive anymore. New cheaper inks and improved printers have dropped the prices down to about half of what they were a decade ago.
But the reason why I am posting here was not about the printing. It was about my recent re-immersion back into the comic world. I stopped reading comic books more than a decade ago. I lost interest and didn't have the time. But recently I pulled out my copy of Watchman and started rereading it. I love it, always have and always will. It had an excellent story and the characters were fascinating. I also adore the artwork. It is simple but effective.
I also found out recently that they had started publishing a new Flash Gordon comic. Well I am huge fan of the character and had to see what it was all about, despite being almost two years late to the party. After reading several glowing reviews, I eagerly bought them at the local comic store and couldn't wait to see what they had done. I was not impressed. The story was iffy, the character designs were silly, the characters themselves were two-dimensional and the pages were a mess to follow. I had to go back and reread several of the books just to follow what happened! (And just because you make the chick tough does not give you license to draw her with breast so big she couldn't safely drive a car. And I can't take the females seriously if they always pout and glare through their Jessica Rabbit hair. But that is more of a personal preference.)
Normally I am all about new ways of doing things, especially if it frees up the artists. The colors, textures and atmosphere they are able to introduce now is amazing. But all the glitz and flash just can't make-up for a complete lack of story. If I compare Watchman to this new comic, I see the limitations of the illustrations of the older book. However, the writing makes up for it in spades! So what if the graphic novel is relegated to old fashioned pen and ink drawing with simple colors and no textures. The story makes it shine. And the only thing shining in this new Flash comic is either the paper or the illustrator's gratuitous use of the lens flare tool in Photoshop.
So my thoughts on the problem with the industry: the writing and current layout technique is just awful. I would gladly pay $5 for a book if I knew I was getting something worth $5. Instead I paid good money for a rehash of something they did on Babylon 5 a decade ago that I had to read twice because I kept missing information the first time. And from what I have seen (yes I went back to the comic store for more books), it looks to be an epidemic and not just limited to poor Flash Gordon. They want to revitalize? Start being creative and stop repackaging the same old thing with a new coat of (darker) paint. And fresh and interesting does not mean giving a character a new backstory. It means pushing the character into new places and situations, one that the audience can relate with.
That wasn't 'decades' ago. More like a decade. Granted, the specialty shops first got off the ground back in the '70's, but the Direct Market didn't become the way of things until '92-'93, when Diamond realized if they got the big two to sign exclusive distribution contracts, Diamond would lose nothing in sales, due to the policy of no returns. The specialty shops were intended to just be a venue of back issue collection and sourcing, and nothing more. Everything that has come of Marvel and DC signing those exclusivity contracts can be laid at the feet of Diamond. The rest is to be blamed on idiots running the companies into the ground so they can finally have in print all the bad ideas they wanted to read when they were in elementary school.
The new Quote system does not nest well.
Well, that's one less excuse they have for the high prices. But the question is, can the newsprint stock work with the current presses to help control prices? If so, would detail still be lost? And if it were, would that be an acceptable price to pay for the survival of the medium?
I lasted about two issues with that book.
I agree completely; and, unfortunately, this is a universal problem not just limited to comics. As for paying $5 an issue-- I would, too, but the high cover prices are another barrier to higher sales and new readers.
Newsprint stock won't work with their new printers. Again it is to messy and would gum up the works. However, there are a host of cheaper papers that will work besides the heavy gloss they are using. The gloss has a nice finish and does help keep the books clean for collectors but the stock is about a third more than regular papers. If I was to wager an educated guess, printing a book could be brought down to $0.60. A newsprint stock printing would cost $0.20, after a fee for producing the printing plates. (The digital process does not require plates.) After making a rough calculation of the current process I would say it is costing them $0.90 to $1.00. In the long run, I am not sure how much money you could shave off. Most of the cost looks to be distributor mark-up and royalties to the creative team. That is the real reason why the books are so expensive.
I bought the entire fist series. It does get a little better by the last one but not much.I lasted about two issues with that book.
So about 20 years ago?
I went to my first comic shop back in the 70s. I was working part time at a comic shop filling orders for customers with subscriptions (thank you speculators) in the 80s. I was managing a shop in the 90s. I've kind of followed the trend.
Well, a cheaper paper would help a bit, and probably make the art look better, but it sounds more and more like Diamond is the problem.
That's what I've been telling you! Similar threads
