The Problem with the Comic Book Industry

[Andonagio]

As a kid, I was an avid comic book collector (mostly Spider-Man), but over the last couple of years, I've become disillusioned with the industry (at least the big names such as Marvel and DC). There are several reasons:

1. Comic book titles now tend to read like long-running soap operas. Every story leans heavily on the last three to five years of the character's history, so any newcomers to the title will feel lost. Sometimes a storyline runs for a year or more, and they're often just continuations of stories that have come before it. I tend to feel like I'm reading stories that are neverending, and that's just not very satisfying.

2. Comic book publishers are continuously trying to shake up their fictional universes. Take Marvel, for instance. Over the last ten years, we've had Avengers Disassembled, House of M, Civil War and Dark Reign, not to mention smaller changes such as Spider-Man: Other, Brand New Day and the assassination of Captain America. Not only do these changes get tiresome, but the publisher crosses the central plot over with a lot of their popular titles, making you feel that you have to collect a lot of different titles just to get the full story.

3. Whenever publishers do shake up their universes, it's either never permanent or an atrocity to the character. Who couldn't guess that Captain America or Batman wouldn't stay dead? On the flip side, I don't need to go into detail about what Brand New Day did to Spider-Man. It's not really worth the emotional investment in an event this big if everything just gets reset in the long run.

4. On top of all this, the price of the comic book has far exceeded the rate of inflation. When I started collecting, they were $1.25 apiece (and even that's high considering they started at 5 - 10 cents once upon a time). Now they're $3-$4 at best.

I'm a strong advocate for seeing comics return to their roots. I think the price of the book could drop without much loss in quality, and the stories could be more self-contained without the risk of losing any readership. This is why I'm a big fan of Marvel's Ultimate line: it's only a handful of titles that, so far, has only had one major shake-up in the last ten years (Ultimatum). Most of the characters that die stay dead. You can absorb most stories in one sitting (an Ultimate Spider-Man story never takes more than 6 - 7 issues), and most stories can be understood fairly well without having read previous issues (what little you do need to know is usually filled in by the "Previously" section on the first page). Why can't the entire industry be like this?

Ideally, I'd love to see Marvel and DC wrap up and shut down every one of their major titles. Let all of the heroes ride off into the sunset, and start each title over at issue #1 with an updated account of their origins. Repeat this process every 10 - 15 years, and let each of these "blocks" be its own fictional universe unrelated to the ones that came before or after it. Have no more than one or two universe-wide shake-ups during each block, and otherwise tell self-contained stories that never span more than 12 issues. Not only would you make these heroes feel more accessible to newcomers, you'd give people the ability to absorb the entire mythology of a character in a matter of days or weeks.

I would love, for instance, to trace every adventure Spider-Man has had since 1962, but that would take years. Fans of Superman or Batman have it even worse. It's very overwhelming. On the other hand, if Spider-Man had started over with a new "block" back in the 90s, I could read that entire block and get a complete picture of Spider-Man's history without feeling like I'm missing anything.

(Publishers would also avoid the inevitable canonical violations that occur when a title is "updated" to reflect modern technology or interests or when a new writer comes in, drops still-unresolved story threads and tries to take the character in a new direction.)

I was hoping that people more in the know than me could offer some insights into publishers like Marvel and DC these days. I don't understand why the price is so high now, why there are so many shake-ups and why the titles tell on-going stories that last years. It seems to me to be a very poor business model and a disrespectful treatment of the mythology.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I was an avid follower of comics up until two years ago.

The annual multi-line big event story arcs, and three-plus bucks a mag are what killed it for me.

 

[Broccoli]

Comic books have been doing this for the last 20 or so years. This is nothing new.

As for Batman being dead, he never died, nor did DC ever claim that was the case. The end of Final Crisis (in which Bats was killed) showed that he was clearly still alive (though in the past).

 

[Dusty Ayres]

As a kid, I was an avid comic book collector (mostly Spider-Man), but over the last couple of years, I've become disillusioned with the industry (at least the big names such as Marvel and DC). There are several reasons:

1. Comic book titles now tend to read like long-running soap operas. Every story leans heavily on the last three to five years of the character's history, so any newcomers to the title will feel lost. Sometimes a storyline runs for a year or more, and they're often just continuations of stories that have come before it. I tend to feel like I'm reading stories that are neverending, and that's just not very satisfying.

2. Comic book publishers are continuously trying to shake up their fictional universes. Take Marvel, for instance. Over the last ten years, we've had Avengers Disassembled, House of M, Civil War and Dark Reign, not to mention smaller changes such as Spider-Man: Other, Brand New Day and the assassination of Captain America. Not only do these changes get tiresome, but the publisher crosses the central plot over with a lot of their popular titles, making you feel that you have to collect a lot of different titles just to get the full story.

3. Whenever publishers do shake up their universes, it's either never permanent or an atrocity to the character. Who couldn't guess that Captain America or Batman wouldn't stay dead? On the flip side, I don't need to go into detail about what Brand New Day did to Spider-Man. It's not really worth the emotional investment in an event this big if everything just gets reset in the long run.

4. On top of all this, the price of the comic book has far exceeded the rate of inflation. When I started collecting, they were $1.25 apiece (and even that's high considering they started at 5 - 10 cents once upon a time). Now they're $3-$4 at best.

I'm a strong advocate for seeing comics return to their roots. I think the price of the book could drop without much loss in quality, and the stories could be more self-contained without the risk of losing any readership. This is why I'm a big fan of Marvel's Ultimate line: it's only a handful of titles that, so far, has only had one major shake-up in the last ten years (Ultimatum). Most of the characters that die stay dead. You can absorb most stories in one sitting (an Ultimate Spider-Man story never takes more than 6 - 7 issues), and most stories can be understood fairly well without having read previous issues (what little you do need to know is usually filled in by the "Previously" section on the first page). Why can't the entire industry be like this?

Ideally, I'd love to see Marvel and DC wrap up and shut down every one of their major titles. Let all of the heroes ride off into the sunset, and start each title over at issue #1 with an updated account of their origins. Repeat this process every 10 - 15 years, and let each of these "blocks" be its own fictional universe unrelated to the ones that came before or after it. Have no more than one or two universe-wide shake-ups during each block, and otherwise tell self-contained stories that never span more than 12 issues. Not only would you make these heroes feel more accessible to newcomers, you'd give people the ability to absorb the entire mythology of a character in a matter of days or weeks.

I would love, for instance, to trace every adventure Spider-Man has had since 1962, but that would take years. Fans of Superman or Batman have it even worse. It's very overwhelming. On the other hand, if Spider-Man had started over with a new "block" back in the 90s, I could read that entire block and get a complete picture of Spider-Man's history without feeling like I'm missing anything.

(Publishers would also avoid the inevitable canonical violations that occur when a title is "updated" to reflect modern technology or interests or when a new writer comes in, drops still-unresolved story threads and tries to take the character in a new direction.)

I was hoping that people more in the know than me could offer some insights into publishers like Marvel and DC these days. I don't understand why the price is so high now, why there are so many shake-ups and why the titles tell on-going stories that last years. It seems to me to be a very poor business model and a disrespectful treatment of the mythology.

What you want is possible now with the omnibus editions of stories that both DC and Marvel put out, as well as the online comics libraries put out by both companies. Also, in case you weren't paying attention, most of what DC does is to clean house anyway (Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis).

 

[Andonagio]

Comic books have been doing this for the last 20 or so years. This is nothing new.

No, but I feel like these problems have been exponentially increasing over the last 20 years. Take the universe-wide shake-ups, for instance. In Marvel's case, it started with Secret Wars in the mid-80s, then it was quickly followed by Secret Wars II, then Infinity Wars/Gauntlet/Crusade and Onslaught, and we're not even to the turn of the century yet! There have been even more over the last ten years.

When I started collecting comics, Marvel was just beginning all of these big shake-ups, and they were new and interesting. Now it's just old and frustrating, both from a narrative and a financial perspective.

 

[Andonagio]

What you want is possible now with the omnibus editions of stories that both DC and Marvel put out, as well as the online comics libraries put out by both companies. Also, in case you weren't paying attention, most of what DC does is to clean house anyway (Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis).

Well, yes and no. It's true that old comics are more accessible now than they used to be, but there's still the sheer volume of material to go through. I would speculate, for instance, that if I wanted to read every issue of every major Spider-Man title, plus every title that co-stars or guest-stars Spider-Man, I'm looking to read at least 2000 comics. And that's just for one hero!

It might be nice to see Marvel put out some kind of "highlights" series of trades. As in, "here are all of the important events in Spidey's life up until now."

As for housecleaning, the mere fact that publishers need to do this is a testament to their inability to manage a concise, complex fictional universe like DC. Granted, it's extremely difficult (if not impossible) to do this over several decades with writers and editors changing all of the time. This is why I propose restarting every title after 10 - 15 years. Then new writers and editors can come in with their own spin on a character (ex. "let's let Superman fly this time instead of jump really high") without worrying about whether they're breaking canon, and any eventual housecleaning is unnecessary.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Housecleaning only comes into play when continuity becomes so convoluted and complicated as to be impenetrable & unaccessable. The everything counts and everything has to fit mentality of fans doesn't help either.

 

[Andonagio]

Housecleaning only comes into play when continuity becomes so convoluted and complicated as to be impenetrable & unaccessable.

Exactly. No fictional continuity should ever be allowed to reach this point.

 

[Tomato]

the model for comics have changes in the last 20 years. the single issues sold from the top 300 in NA was ~5-6M comics/month. In tv land a primetime show would be canned with those numbers.

With DC now with WB, and Marvel with Disney. Comics are more of a R and D center for new property, for movies, cartoons etc... Its sad b/c I love comics near and dear. But OPs gripping is pretty much going to be the norm for now.

I'll also echo TPBs too. That's how I get my comics now and they are much cheaper than single issues.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I still read loads of comics, but few of them are Marvel or DC. I still have a lot of affection for the characters, but I've left their universes behind.

 

[RJDiogenes]

There are a lot of problems with the Comics industry, in terms of the major publishers. A lot of it has to do with lack of real talent (or maybe just suppression of it by editorial). In order to be fashionable, the art is almost uniformly ugly; and contemporary artists seem to have no storytelling ability whatsoever. The writing relies less and less on story and character and more on gimmicks, stunts and lame attempts at shock value. And, again to appeal to current fashion for ugliness, the characters must be corrupt and unpleasant.

The best thing they could do would be to go back to cheap paper, lower the cost of the books, hire writers who can write and artists who can illustrate and publish interesting stories that the reader can care about.

Of course, this may not work, since the audience itself is complicit in the lack of quality in pop culture in general.

 

[JoeZhang]

This is a problem with superhero comics not with comics - I read a lot of comics and experience none of these problems.

 

[FreezeC77]

This is a problem with superhero comics not with comics - I read a lot of comics and experience none of these problems.

I read superhero comics that don't experience these problems, it's not a problem with 'superhero comics' it's a problem with long-running mainstream superhero comics from Marvel & DC.

They're not going to permanently kill off their main characters, they're not going to introduce huge changes to their personalities or their life that actually sticks around. Hell the biggest things Marvel did in the last 20 years that actually lasted for a long period of time was maybe Peter and Mary-Jane getting married and then Jean Grey staying dead...They went and retconned Peter/MJ's marriage out of existence and Jean Grey is probably coming back within the next year or two.

Marvel and DC live for the status-quo. The characters in their comics might as well be the Peanuts strip characters or Garfield. There's never going to be anything done that 15 or 20 years later shows any real noticeable change in a character. It's one of the reasons why I never seem to stick with Marvel or DC's main characters for any long period of time. I get interested in a something someone tells me, I read them for awhile and then I just lose interest because I know there's never going to be an ending.

I prefer to read comics from other companies that are written and created by one person who writes it with a conclusion in mind. I actually thought Runaways was going to be like that from Marvel, but then it got turned over to other people after Brian K Vaughan.

It's also probably the reason why I became more interested in manga as I grew up, because except in very rare cases you have one mangaka (writer/illustrator) who creates the manga and writes it and you get a conclusion to the story. Sure, maybe some of them are dragged out way too long, but it's the opposite of Marvel/DC where real conclusions are a needle in the haystack.

 

[EnderAKH]

This is what dragged me out of comics in the late 80s and early 90s. Secret Wars, followed by Secret Wars II, followed by Mutant Massacre, followed by Fall of the Mutants, followed by Inferno, followed by many more, plus the Annual events such as Atlantis Attacks, The Evolutionary War... it became too much and felt like the macro events were impinging on the stories the writers were trying to tell. I remember Excalibur had many irons in the fire that had to be set aside for Inferno. That's about when I checked out.

Then around the time of the first Spider-Man flick I started to get back into comics again. Several Years later came Disassembled, House of M, Civil War, Invasion, etc and I'm out again.

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, there are tons of reasons for the state of comic book industry today, but I do think things started going south when comics ceased to be a cheaply-produced, disposable commodity and more of a high-end luxury item catering to a specific (and aging) audience.

 

[Andonagio]

I read superhero comics that don't experience these problems, it's not a problem with 'superhero comics' it's a problem with long-running mainstream superhero comics from Marvel & DC.

Agreed. I probably should have titled this thread "The Problem with Mainstream Comic Book Superheroes" or something like that. The superheroes in Marvel and DC are what I'm really driving at. (This discussion may apply to other publishers, but I don't read those.)

 

[Tomato]

The thing is we all acknowledge there is a problem but HOW?? Do you fix it? How do you compete with video games, TV, youtube, internet facebook etc... the list just goes on.

And price is not the problem. Libraries are stacked with comics yet nobody takes them out. Nor is talent (IMO), EVS, Geoff Johns, Jim Lee, Neil Gaiman, the list goes on with the talent that comics has.

 

[A beaker full of death]

I submit the proliferation of titles is a problem, too. When I was young each character had at most two titles of his own plus a team up book (most characters had a lot less), and each team had only one title. Now it's pretty much impossible to keep pace with all the developments your favorite characters are dealing with because you have to buy 20-30 titles a month just to know what's going on -- and that's aside from the one-shots and limited series.

Picking up comments above, it's strange that an industry that struggles to maintain the status quo (as I believe it should) keeps having these cataclysmic cross-universe events.

 

[A beaker full of death]

The thing is we all acknowledge there is a problem but HOW?? Do you fix it? How do you compete with video games, TV, youtube, internet facebook etc... the list just goes on.

Why compete? Either these people have a love for this medium, the comic book, or they don't. If they don't they should get out and make room for those who do.

 

[DarKush]

I agree with a lot of what I've heard on this board, but I'll throw in some comments too:

1) About libraries with comics, I'm fortunate to be in the DC library system which stocks a lot of really good comics. Before that I was in the Columbus, OH library system, which also stocked a lot of comics. But I've also been places where library systems don't stock comics and there are a lot of people who don't know about comics at libraries anyway, or might not know about trade paperbacks or graphic novels.

2) Though it might be daunting, many of the Marvel macro events over the years since Avengers Disassembled are supposed to be at least loosely tied together to tell one big story from Disassembled to Siege. Of course, I think that there have been too many big events, with multiple tie-ins, etc. Only the dedicated and rich comic book fan can keep up with it at all, which is another reason I'm thankful the DC system carries a lot of the main event books. But I think DC and Marvel got hooked on the profitability of all these big events and crossovers and tie-ins. They are sucking their dwindling fan base dry, but as long as the dollars are flowing, there is no incentive to change tactics.

3) With character deaths, this bothers me too that no deaths seem permanent. It all comes off as a gimmick. But at the same time, I think comic book fans are a bit schizo in that regard. On one hand a lot of us want change, yet at the same time we want things to stay the same. So, its hard to gauge what the fan base might want regarding life altering changes. And I wonder if there is a fear of rocking the boat too much.

4) I'm also have issues with the price of comics. I think they are way too expensive. Three or four bucks for one book? How can you bring in new fans with those kind of prices?

5) Adult content: I think at there is a bit too much adult content even for the general books. I could see how some of the subject matter might turn off parents who want to get their kids into comic books. There are kid-friendly books, but I don't think there is a great deal of variety in that regard. I wish there was a way to write books that could appeal to both adults, young adults, a kids inclined to read them.

6) Inability or unwillingness to grow audience: As I said before, I think the major companies are content to suck the bones of their declining audience instead of finding ways to tap into underserved markets. Do more with non-white, non-male characters. Not just make legacy characters, but if you do, keep promoting them, pushing them. Same with original non-white characters, and bring more non-white, non-male talent onboard, and reach out more. Comics shouldn't remain a largely white male preserve.