The Prime Universe....no more.

[Dar70]

BUT to me anyways its always implied we have been watching the same crews all these years

Whether time travel creates a new universe or just over writes the existing one it's still going to be the same crew and a different crew at the same time because even if the same timeline is written over like you believe it should be, the changes have technically created a new crew because how the timeline originally panned out has now ceased to exist and a new one has been put in its place.

I would rather go for altered crew memories than a completely new set.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's pretty easy to believe that no matter the method of time-travel that if one alters the timeline, no matter how slightly, that one doesn't "create" a universe but simply slides into a "slightly similar" parallel universe. Since there's an infinite number of universes one certainly exsists where everything is exactly the same as another except for a small detail change.

This argument would say that every time travel change that took place didn't cause a uinverse to cease to exsist that that universe went on exsisting afterwards our heroes just managed to either get back to their "own universe" or one cloesly similar enough to satisfy their desires.

This is, really, elementary mulitverse theory, folks.

 

[Middle Earther]

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yes Trek hasnt always been consistant in the ways timetravel has worked.

And that's the beginning and the end of the argument.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

This all depends on what "rule" of time travel you use. Does time travel happen only within one reality or when you're travelling to you end up in an alternate reality (either one that already exists - there being an infinite number of realities out there - or created as a result of your time travel)?

Trek has been wildly inconsistent in the implied rules of time travel so there's no precedent to draw upon. We can believe whatever the frak we want. The terminology "alternate reality" makes me think the writers intend for us to believe that the "prime" reality still exists, like the regular and mirror universes.

 

[jbrinegar]

Please!! I have heard this "make it accessible to a new audience" line way to long. Star Trek has been on TV for 40 years. A total of 10 movies and 5 series. It has been broadcasted daily around the world. People today buy DVDs of entire TV shows. They have access to the internet etc. I am sorry but if someone wanted to get into Trek it is pretty easy to do.

Abrams has wiped away all of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.

The idea that you still "owne it on DVD" is silly. All that you now know of Trek is now gone. For those that say the writers had too many "obsticles" I say "Manny Coto" didn't have a problem with it for the last season of ENT (which was the best of that series). So for all the people that followed Trek, you just got kicked in the stomach. You will never see another story/movie about previous Trek again. To sit back and say "we can see Khan again" in the next movie or something from the TOS series is pretty limited thinking. I mean is that it? Is Trek done? Now we just rehash the last 40 years again with minor changes? The idea of "new adventures" is basically over.

As for "Marvel and DC". Sorry but that is not a valid example. It is two different companies which have set up their own stories/characters. Just as you do not hear "Darth Vader" say "damn you Kirk".

You are misunderstanding me. I wasnt comparing marvel to dc, I was saying in each of the comic lines, dc and marvel, they have different realities that can co-exist. i.e., DC has different verisons of superman, batman, etc and Marvel has different versions of Wolverine, Spiderman, etc

I appreciate that you loved Manny Coto's Enterprise, etc., I did too, but it was not popular with the public and not a viable franchise to continue. Make it more accessible to mainstream and look what happens, a 200 million dollar hit.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

BUT to me anyways its always implied we have been watching the same crews all these years

Whether time travel creates a new universe or just over writes the existing one it's still going to be the same crew and a different crew at the same time because even if the same timeline is written over like you believe it should be, the changes have technically created a new crew because how the timeline originally panned out has now ceased to exist and a new one has been put in its place.

I would rather go for altered crew memories than a completely new set.

You don't seem to understand time travel all too well. They aren't just receiving altered memories, the original timeline is getting erased and a new one put in it's place and thus a "new" crew.
So it doesn't matter whether or not the original is written over or a new universe is created it's still a different crew. So your argument makes no sense.

And back to the question at hand, new universes are created, that's the current theory, that's what has been said by Abrams/Orci to be the case and that's how the grandfather paradox is neutered.

 

[Shaw]

... So this movie clearly wipes out TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. Only leaving ENT...

Really?

Well, just a quick check...

• My Trek DVD set is still in existence.
• My Trek video tapes are still in existence.
• My Trek books are still in existence.
• My Trek iTunes videos still exist on my computer.
• All three seasons of TOS are still available from the iTunes Music Store.
• All three seasons of TOS are still available on CBS's YouTube channel.
• And it seems that various Trek series are still being aired daily on TV.

Obviously the wiping out wasn't done very well.

Why do you need everything wiped out? Clearly this is something you not only feel passionately about, but also you seem to need others to agree with you to validate your feelings. Why should it matter to you what any of the rest of us think about this? Why would what fan sites say cause you any distress?

Just out of curiosity, would the movie be any better or worse if every fan shared your views on this? Does your Trek world view collapse if there exist people who don't see this the way you do?

And most importantly... are you going to organize old Trek book (and video, DVD, etc.) burning mobs to destroy what you see as heretic materials? Are you going to lobby for laws against the public viewing of old Trek?

Just how extreme is your point of view on this?

 

[C.E. Evans]

I still don't understand why people think the Prime Universe has been erased, especially since TOS-Remastered is still running in syndication (with plans to replace it in the fall with reruns of TNG in many TV markets, IIRC).

As far as CBS is concerned, nothing has changed. It's just that with Star Trek XI, the movies are now branching away from the TV shows in their own separate universe.

I always thought this was a win-win situation for everyone involved...

 

[skep155]

This is not a parallel universe. They went back in time and changed it to where the future has been altered. You fail to realize that Abrams did not want to go into that direction and just made it that simple "Nero from the future, goes back in time and alters the future". It is that simple. The Prime Universe has been destroyed.

As far as im aware Nero got sucked into the past before Spock.

Spock, and his ship, were still there, in the future, with the blackhole, and nothing had changed. If it was an alternate timeline, everything would have changed like in First contact before he could enter the black hole. It didn't, and on top of that the writers have specifically stated that its an alternate universe.

End of debate. Some fanatical fanboys just can't accept the idea of change and new possibilities, which ironically is one of the things star trek is meant to be about.

Another funny thing is that some people wanted this film to end with a reset button because Vulcan had been destroyed and it had branched off into a new non-prime timeline which they just couldn't handle, since they thought that everything they had watched in old Trek had been erased. Yet they wanted everything they had just seen happen in a movie they had paid to see to be erased via a reset button.

I think im going to start calling some people the "Trek Taliban". "He altered the sacred canon, blasphemy!!! Death to the heretic".

 

[Cyke101]

If you can't trust the Doctor about time travel, then just who can you trust?

http://community.livejournal.com/ihasatardis/1864752.html

 

[cmdrbolly]

I think im going to start calling some people the "Trek Taliban". "He altered the sacred canon, blasphemy!!! Death to the heretic".

Hahaa..'Trek Taliban'. I like it!

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

If you can't trust the Doctor about time travel, then just who can you trust?

http://community.livejournal.com/ihasatardis/1864752.html

THANK YOU! And there you have it.

 

[Theodore Jay Miller]

The Trek we 'know' no longer exists in the timeline shown in the film - that doesn't in any way establish that an alternate reality doesn't exist in which it does, one in which Nero either never came back or in which his actions were always part of the normal flow of the timeline (maybe he didn't attack Kelvin, or maybe it was as simple as George Kirk not being on it at the time, Kelvin destroyed Narada, no one ever knew it was Romulan, and we're right back to J.T. on the bridge of a Jefferies-designed Enterprise).

That's what I'd say. TNG "Parallels" established that lots of similar parallel universes exist. So there exists the universe of the movie, where Vulcan was destroyed, Kirk's life was altered, etc. There also exist universes where everything happened as we saw in TOS, TNG, etc. And they're all equally "real", stories can be set in them, etc.

 

[cmdrbolly]

I always thought this was a win-win situation for everyone involved...

That would only work if the haters were willing to let the other side also win. Some here view it as a zero sum game.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I always thought this was a win-win situation for everyone involved...

That would only work if the haters were willing to let the other side also win. Some here view it as a zero sum game.

It's tough to be proved wrong. So I hear.

 

[Australis]

Do I really need to post this again?

Apparently so.

 

[anothertrekfan]

^photoshop can really do some crazy things now...

 

[Shaw]

I always thought this was a win-win situation for everyone involved...

That would only work if the haters were willing to let the other side also win. Some here view it as a zero sum game.

-and-​

It's tough to be proved wrong. So I hear.

Strange... either you got a good movie or you didn't. Why would you let anyone else define whether or not that is a winning situation for you? Seems like the OP of this thread speaks for a lot of people around here in that they define success by whether or not others have lost.

So the question is did you get a good movie? Seems very simple and straight forward. Doesn't require acceptance by reviewers, doesn't require acceptance by the public at large, doesn't require acceptance by other fans, and doesn't require cross checking with box office numbers... it only requires that you, the viewer of the movie, were given an enjoyable film going experience.

Frankly, it doesn't look like a lot of you guys know if you liked the film. A lot of you guys seem to be weighing your opinions against those of others in an attempt to not be on the losing side of something that should never have been a competition to begin with.

If you got a good movie, be happy. It doesn't require that you declare victory, it doesn't require that someone else declare defeat... it just requires that you know what you like and that you actually enjoy what you think you like.

Problem solved.

Now stop letting others inflict themselves on you and stop inflicting yourselves on others... unless you get some sort of perverse pleasure out of it.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

The prime universe is gone. The only person that is/was aware of it was Spock and those that he told. Spock should of at the end of the movie instead of helping set up a new colony for surviving Vulcans but instead he should of been trying to devise a way to repair the time line. By not doing so he alters the future and allows the destruction of his home planet plus 6 billion Vulcans.

When Pike is questioned by Nero he says he "prevented genocide" by destroying Vulcan. Pike tells him that he is "blaming the Federation for something that hasn't happened". Nero later says "my purpose is not to avoid the destruction of the home I love but to make sure but to create a Romulus that is free to exist without the Federation". Only they are the ones worth saving.

Since the time line was not repaired, the prime universe is gone.

So Nero in is deluded way is affecting his future by destroying Vulcan and Earth. So why people say that this new movie is an alternate is incorrect. The villain is trying to alter "the future"....his future.

Prime Universe exists in parallel to the new one. It is that simple folks.