The Prime Universe....no more.

[Australis]

Rapture, after reading WAAAYYY too much of this, I've decided you're in actual fact a troll, just baiting people, and anything you have to say is, in point of fact, worthless.

Either that or... no I can't say it outside of TNZ. Maybe it can be duiscussed further down there.

And I'm done with this thread.

 

[Cartoonist]

Prime Universe exists in parallel to the new one. It is that simple folks.


There is nothing in the movie to suggest this.

Except Uhura's "alternate reality" line and the fact that Spock Prime is still there. Had his universe been wiped away, he would've blinked out of existence, as would Nero. Which of course would mean Nero couldn't have changed history, and the Prime universe would continue unimpeded. So the only way this story can possibly exist is if it's a parallel universe.

There is sufficient dialogue to suggest otherwise. The prime universe is dead. Why else did Spock not go back to his "universe" if it was not dead?

You're not reading the responses, I take it. No matter what Spock does - if he goes back through time to stop Nero - he can't save this universe's Vulcan from destruction. That's already happened and set in stone. All he could do by stopping Nero in the past is to create yet another alternate universe where Vulcan survives. This universe would still be without a Vulcan. Spock's needed here, to help guide the rebuilding of this universe's Vulcan civilization.

Besides, he can't go back to "his" universe even if he wanted to abandon this universe's Vulcans. We know his ship can go backward through time via a black hole, but there's no reason to believe it could travel from one parallel universe to another. Maybe he could go forward through time, but he'd wind up in the future of THIS universe, not the Prime universe.

Plus, if you were an elderly Vulcan and all your best friends were long dead (as they are in the Prime universe), and you had a chance to watch your friends in action again (even in an alternate universe), wouldn't you stick around? He's an old guy, he probably even thinks music was better back in his day.

 

[Brady]

We are FAR more likely to see money spent on a series or movie set in the ORIGINAL timeline NOW with the successful release of the new Star Trek then we would have been if they would have just shelled out another failure like Nemesis. Be happy that Star Trek has some steam once again. Now we have something to look forward to. For god's sake, people, NEITHER UNIVERSE EVER REALLY EXISTED!!!!!

 

[anothertrekfan]

We are FAR more likely to see money spent on a series or movie set in the ORIGINAL timeline NOW with the successful release of the new Star Trek then we would have been if they would have just shelled out another failure like Nemesis. Be happy that Star Trek has some steam once again. Now we have something to look forward to. For god's sake, people, NEITHER UNIVERSE EVER REALLY EXISTED!!!!!

Nope. The original universe will never again be seen on television or the theater. Consider it obsolete.

 

[Cartoonist]

We are FAR more likely to see money spent on a series or movie set in the ORIGINAL timeline NOW with the successful release of the new Star Trek then we would have been if they would have just shelled out another failure like Nemesis. Be happy that Star Trek has some steam once again. Now we have something to look forward to. For god's sake, people, NEITHER UNIVERSE EVER REALLY EXISTED!!!!!

Nope. The original universe will never again be seen on television or the theater. Consider it obsolete.

You're probably right. I think the Dominion War was a fitting conclusion to the stories to be told in that universe, and I'm happy to see what the new alternate reality has in store. Maybe 18 years from now we'll be treated to a reboot of TNG (with a similar crew but very different stories) set in this parallel universe, and I'll get a kick out of seeing "Parallels" from our new TNG crew's perspective.

 

[leedstickets]

Its all about the canon

Its entirely true that the "prime" universe still exists... in the same way that the mangetout plant on my balcony (which has just started flowering!) could actually become the lead in a new (and entirely proposterous) star trek series. Under the multiverse theory, literally every universe exists.

Given this, I'm entirely willing to agree that the universe we've seen still exists... as does a universe where Doctor McCoy called himself Shirley on the second tuesday of every month, and wore fishnet tights.

The relevant thing in TV/Movies, is the legendary "canon". If the next movie depicts the (fairly attractive) new Spock romping around with Guinan, we need to accept that as the reality in the startrek universe (every episode of ST involving timetravel follows with an episode that confirms that the previous episodes events are carried forward).

Given Canon, the startrek universe is now one without Vulcan, one where Kirk has been working out and looks good in tiny pants, and the whole TNG/DS9 etc. universe has been completely changed (whilst the original still existing in a different universe)...

...the last thing we've seen is the reality (the canon). If in the next film we see shows Dr McCoy chose a career in ballroom dancing, then that is the current Star Trek reality.

It would have been easier for fans for it to be a reboot.... but the fact that its been very successful in its current form, we are reluctantly going to have to agree that the "canon" universe is the universe.

 

[theFirebottle]

Re: Its all about the canon

Given this, I'm entirely willing to agree that the universe we've seen still exists... as does a universe where Doctor McCoy called himself Shirley on the second tuesday of every month, and wore fishnet tights.

Hey, I'd pay good money to see...

...why is everyone looking at me like that?

 

[leedstickets]

Re: Its all about the canon

Its far more liekly that we'll see the new Spock in fishnets... but I'd pay to see either!

 

[EnsignRicky]

I think this is what Qui-Gon Jinn was talking about when he said your focus determines your reality. If you ask me, it's just one of any number of mirror universes; But your mileage may vary.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Re: Its all about the canon

...Under the multiverse theory, literally every universe exists...

...If in the next film we see shows Dr McCoy chose a career in ballroom dancing, then that is the current Star Trek reality.

or perhaps a bricklayer
...or psychiatrist
...or moon-shuttle conductor
...or physicist
...or magician
...or engineer
...or coal miner
...or mechanic

 

[Zeppster]

We are FAR more likely to see money spent on a series or movie set in the ORIGINAL timeline NOW with the successful release of the new Star Trek then we would have been if they would have just shelled out another failure like Nemesis. Be happy that Star Trek has some steam once again. Now we have something to look forward to. For god's sake, people, NEITHER UNIVERSE EVER REALLY EXISTED!!!!!

Nope. The original universe will never again be seen on television or the theater. Consider it obsolete.

Fan films are becoming more popular and so far not one of them take place in the other universe(although give it time the movie did just come out a few weeks ago)

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Hmm. Someone appears to have disembarked.

 

[Trilliam]

To roughly quote Ford Prefect:

"Time is an illusion, lunch time doubly so"

 

[yenny]

I have seen on several fan sites the idea that the "prime universe" is not gone and that this is an alternate universe etc. I am sorry but I am not buying that. Spock clearly tells Kirk in the mind meld that he is from the future. On the bridge Spock says that Nero changed the time line after he came from the future and destroyed the Kelvin. Uhara even says "an alternate reality" not "universe". This is considered the new time line and all that happened before is now lost. If someone went back in time and killed Hilter the future that they know is now lost. You could clearly see old Spock developing new memories when Kirk is made Captain.

So this movie clearly wipes out TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. Only leaving ENT.
Which is exactly what Abrams and crew wanted to do.

I still find it ridiculous that Spock after watching Vulcan get destroyed does not in any way shape or form trying to repair the time line. He even tells Kirk that he is "emotional" about the destruction. Come on man! He should of went to the Guardian and gone back to the future and stop Nero or better yet stopping the destruction of Romulus. Major plot hole that makes the story seem poorly contrived.

I believe someone did went back in time and correct the time line. But they went back in time after Nero and Spock went back in time. Causing Spock to be stuck in that time line. Even if Spock went to the Guardian of forever. He will only be traveling to the future of that time line. Beside the Guardian of forever only record the pass not the future.

 

[Dar70]

Whether time travel creates a new universe or just over writes the existing one it's still going to be the same crew and a different crew at the same time because even if the same timeline is written over like you believe it should be, the changes have technically created a new crew because how the timeline originally panned out has now ceased to exist and a new one has been put in its place.

I would rather go for altered crew memories than a completely new set.

You don't seem to understand time travel all too well. They aren't just receiving altered memories, the original timeline is getting erased and a new one put in it's place and thus a "new" crew.
So it doesn't matter whether or not the original is written over or a new universe is created it's still a different crew. So your argument makes no sense.

And back to the question at hand, new universes are created, that's the current theory, that's what has been said by Abrams/Orci to be the case and that's how the grandfather paradox is neutered.

NO I do understand. But this is not what is implied in any of these stories from the series. The timeline is restored altered or not, it is not a branched off timeline. It is the same timeline. You are now going by what nuT has done with its time travel. I am not going to think differently about the other series time travel stories because of nuT.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Its all about the canon

The original universe will never again be seen on television or the theater. Consider it obsolete.

But it's very possible that elements from the original universe that future writers happen to like will make their appearance in this universe, such as a recast TNG crew or a replay of the Dominion War. So far, there are few canonical elements from the prime universe that have been ruled out and a whole lot that could still occur.

 

[pookha]

I would rather go for altered crew memories than a completely new set.

You don't seem to understand time travel all too well. They aren't just receiving altered memories, the original timeline is getting erased and a new one put in it's place and thus a "new" crew.
So it doesn't matter whether or not the original is written over or a new universe is created it's still a different crew. So your argument makes no sense.

And back to the question at hand, new universes are created, that's the current theory, that's what has been said by Abrams/Orci to be the case and that's how the grandfather paradox is neutered.

NO I do understand. But this is not what is implied in any of these stories from the series. The timeline is restored altered or not, it is not a branched off timeline. It is the same timeline. You are now going by what nuT has done with its time travel. I am not going to think differently about the other series time travel stories because of nuT.

actually a new branch might have been created after assignment earth.
could explain the situation with telepaths and a lot of other stuff.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Its all about the canon

The original universe will never again be seen on television or the theater. Consider it obsolete.

But it's very possible that elements from the original universe that future writers happen to like will make their appearance in this universe, such as a recast TNG crew or a replay of the Dominion War. So far, there are few canonical elements from the prime universe that have been ruled out and a whole lot that could still occur.

To back this post up, the writers have said that they're still bound by certain elements of canon, specifically threats that wouldn't have been affected by Nero such as V'Ger.

Not that I would ever want a replay of old TV stories, but seeing a new take on, say, the Doomsday Machine would be just plain awesome.