The Prime Universe....no more.

[theFirebottle]

I never expected to get more DS9 anyways. It was so continuity-heavy that they could never have gotten a mass-appeal film plot out of it.

I didn't want more of VOY because of their idiotic mashing of the Reset Button with every episode and complete betrayal of what could have been a decent premise for a show. It was overall poorly handled. The science was lame ("reverse the polarity on the [device that never gets mentioned again]!" or "deuterium ore"), the characters never developed (aside from Janeway being written completely differently every week, to the point where the actor complained!), and the overall quality low.

TNG was being buried in flagrantly bad movies as though the creators wanted to dig down through the bedrock of suck to get to China. That coffin lid has so many goddamn nails in it there's more metal than wood.

You make the assumption that I, or anyone else, wanted more of the same old Trek. That's a bad assumption to make. Trek is about "strange new worlds", not rehashing the old worlds with less and less inspiration and novelty until they're covered in a thick lacquer of crud.

And before you get on my case with "But the new movie is a TOS remake! Your point is invalid!", no. The new movie takes TOS, scrubs all of the lacquer off of it, gives it a clean shirt and some new boots, and sends it off into a whole new day.

 

[The rapture]

Taking Trek backwards was not the way to go.

Worldwide Gross: $283,994,301

We are not subjected to rehashing TOS episode ideas now????

No. The timeline is different. There will be no Cage and therefore no Menagerie. There will be no Balance of Terror. No Amok Time. There will also be no Spock's Brain. Not because of the timeline, but because of the suck.

Sad.

You can haz it?

You can now take your Trek DVDs and box them in the attic seeing how there will be no more stories to add to it.

There will be no more to add to Citizen Kane and Friends either...might as well box that up too. I wasn't aware that one could only watch something and enjoy it only if it's continuity was on going.

Your big red "X" is unnecessary. Please calm down. Trek has been an on going adventure from the first movie. It became a franchise. This movie clearly goes back in time before TOS (Archer is referenced so ENT is still there as part of the Trek background.) and erases everything. So your on going "Trek" story/universe that you have enjoyed from day one has been erased. It is pretty clear concept that your just can't seem to grasp.

They finally marketed the movie well and yes it grossed $283. Of course if you minus the budget of $150 and and promo of another $150. It hasn't made any money yet via ticket sales. It still needs to bring in another $27 million to break even.

Also you fail to realize (another Trek history lesson) that Berman movies were BORING. Especially the last 2. With the help of George Lucas ILM and the transfomer twits they put together a movie to attract all the transformers type audience.

So what episode is now going to be redone as STXII? They have 79 choices.

 

[Shaw]

So again, why are you needing to define me as one of your haters? Are you threatened by anyone else who might have had even the slightest of differences of opinion on this movie from your own?

Who's defining you? You responded, so I guess we are to assume you have defined yourself. That's sad.

I responded to a post directed at me in which you said...

"Meaning....you want to be left alone to hate in peace?"​

No where have I ever said I hated anything. But that doesn't seem to matter to you, you seem to be looking for someone to fight with.

Why are haters so threatened by people who like and enjoyed the film? Is their status as a hater somehow in jeopardy?

As someone who calls others who didn't hate the movie haters, you are obviously the one threatened by the positions of others around here (even if they differ in their view of the movie from yours by a small amount).

Might I suggest that you try just enjoying the movie for it's own sake and stop fighting people to define your position on a peace of entertainment.

 

[JustKate]

I'm not missing the point, I'm taking a giant steaming dump on it because I think it's asinine in the extreme.

There are still books being written about the old series and characters - allllll of them, I think. Official books authorized by the folks who own the name Star Trek.

So. Nothing is out the window. No matter what Abrams or anybody else says. If TPTB determine that there's a market for it, it will continue to be produced. Yes, it's really that simple.

Why would you want it to be? I don't get it. There's room for just about everybody in the Trek media world, so why not just live and let live?

I am sorry but I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I made it clear that the prime universe has been erased. Go watch the movie again (Spock talking to Kirk and Nero talking to Pike). All that you know (Not your fathers Trek) is gone. Everyone knows the books and comics are not canon, so why you bother to bring that up is pointless. Again all that you know from TOS,TNG,DS9 and VOY has been erased by this movie. It is that simple. You now have people wanting to see "The Wrath Of Khan" again. Quite sad.

I don't. I loathe The Wrath of Khan. I like lots of older Trek but that doesn't happen to be one of the parts I like. In fact, I like the new movie much better than TWOK.

If you will drop your hostility for a second - because I actually said nothing the least bit hostile - you'll see that all I'm saying is that all the various Treks are still out there for people to enjoy in several forms. Therefore, declarations that Old Trek is dead are, to put it mildly, more than somewhat premature. If someone still wants to read new adventures about the characters from TNG or DS9 or whatever, they still can.

How exactly does that make me "sad"? I'm just telling people that if they find the new movie not to their liking, they have alternatives. Which they do.

 

[Squiggy]

So your on going "Trek" story/universe that you have enjoyed from day one has been erased. It is pretty clear concept that your just can't seem to grasp.

So I can't enjoy Data's Day because of this movie? (You're also not really grasping that Spock Prime's mere existence sort of negates your whole "erased" idea).

Also you fail to realize (another Trek history lesson) that Berman movies were BORING. Especially the last 2. With the help of George Lucas ILM and the transfomer twits they put together a movie to attract all the transformers type audience.

I fail to realize nothing. I'm aware that INS and NEM sucked on multiple levels. And Heaven forbid that the "transformer twits" () write something that appeals to the broadest audience possible. OF ALL THE UNMITIGATED NERVE!!! I want another TMP damnit! 12 minutes of dialouge!!!!

So what episode is now going to be redone as STXII? They have 79 choices.

I don't follow. Aside from trolling, what sort of question is this? Where is it written that JJ has to use one of the TOS plots? IF we go under the assumption that the original timeline is "erased", then there's is absolutly no reason that we have to use anything from that timeline.

 

[The rapture]

I never expected to get more DS9 anyways. It was so continuity-heavy that they could never have gotten a mass-appeal film plot out of it.

I didn't want more of VOY because of their idiotic mashing of the Reset Button with every episode and complete betrayal of what could have been a decent premise for a show. It was overall poorly handled. The science was lame ("reverse the polarity on the [device that never gets mentioned again]!" or "deuterium ore"), the characters never developed (aside from Janeway being written completely differently every week, to the point where the actor complained!), and the overall quality low.

TNG was being buried in flagrantly bad movies as though the creators wanted to dig down through the bedrock of suck to get to China. That coffin lid has so many goddamn nails in it there's more metal than wood.

You make the assumption that I, or anyone else, wanted more of the same old Trek. That's a bad assumption to make. Trek is about "strange new worlds", not rehashing the old worlds with less and less inspiration and novelty until they're covered in a thick lacquer of crud.

No one expected a full blown movie for DS9. (A miniseries on cable would of been nice and possible.) VOY was not that good of a series. The solution was not wiping out the prime universe. The solution was getting rid of Rick Berman. They over killed it. Another history lesson, Berman movies were fairly boring. The last 2 were a joke. Making an EP1 meets transformers was the path they choose. Trek was about "adventure" (a quote from Gene). What you have now is a rehash and will continue to go into STXII. What episode will be done as the movie? There is talk of "Space Seed". So we see this "again"? This is suddenly not rehashing? Come on! So really...the concept of "strange new worlds" died with this movie as well. What "strange new world" was done in this movie? Delta Vega?? haha

 

[Squiggy]

So really...the concept of "strange new worlds" died with this movie as well.

Let's look at the "strange new worlds" visited in the other movies.

TMP: Earth (already been)
TWoK: Ceti Alpha V (not strange), Earth (already been), Genesis Planet
TSfS: Genesis Planet (already been), Vulcan (not strange), Earth (already been)
TVH: Vulcan (already been), Earth (already been)
TFF: Earth (already been), Nimbus III (not strange), God's Planet for about 5 minutes
TUC: Earth (already been), Rura Penthe (not strange), Kithomer (not strange)
GEN: Veridan III (not strange)
FC: Earth (already been)
INS: Baku Homeworld...sorta strange
NEM: Kolarus III (not strange), Romulus (already been)

Have you never seen the previous 10 movies?

 

[theFirebottle]

No one expected a full blown movie for DS9. (A miniseries on cable would of been nice and possible.) VOY was not that good of a series. The solution was not wiping out the prime universe. The solution was getting rid of Rick Berman. They over killed it. Another history lesson, Berman movies were fairly boring. The last 2 were a joke. Making an EP1 meets transformers was the path they choose. Trek was about "adventure" (a quote from Gene). What you have now is a rehash and will continue to go into STXII. What episode will be done as the movie? There is talk of "Space Seed". So we see this "again"? This is suddenly not rehashing? Come on! So really...the concept of "strange new worlds" died with this movie as well. What "strange new world" was done in this movie? Delta Vega?? haha

How about the strange new world of a Trek that doesn't sit around twiddling its thumbs with vacuous technobabble? A strange new universe where one of the founding member planets of the Federation has been annihilated in the blink of an eye, irreparably altering the balance of power in the galaxy and posing a major and perpetual new crisis to a Starfleet that's been decimated?

The only people who are talking seriously about doing TOS episode plots for the next film are fans who are understandably excited and feverishly coming up with topics of discussion. Interviewers keep asking the writers and producers and director if he's gonna do Khan, and the answers are mostly along the lines of "Hey, we're not ruling anything out!" That's strange and new! A Star Trek that's not so bound up in its own tangled continuity that the writers don't have to restrain themselves even a little bit!

 

[Shaw]

So really...the concept of "strange new worlds" died with this movie as well.

Let's look at the "strange new worlds" visited in the other movies.

TMP: Earth (already been)
TWoK: Ceti Alpha V (not strange), Earth (already been), Genesis Planet
TSfS: Genesis Planet (already been), Vulcan (not strange), Earth (already been)
TVH: Vulcan (already been), Earth (already been)
TFF: Earth (already been), Nimbus III (not strange), God's Planet for about 5 minutes
TUC: Earth (already been), Rura Penthe (not strange), Kithomer (not strange)
GEN: Veridan III (not strange)
FC: Earth (already been)
INS: Baku Homeworld...sorta strange
NEM: Kolarus III (not strange), Romulus (already been)

Have you never seen the previous 10 movies?

 

[superdeluxe]

I have seen on several fan sites the idea that the "prime universe" is not gone and that this is an alternate universe etc. I am sorry but I am not buying that.

So this movie clearly wipes out TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. Only leaving ENT.

you are mad at Abrams because you are not buying the reasons from the director, writers and the characters in the movie? It is YOUR fault that Prime universe is gone.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Anybody having a problem grasping this simplest of Trekisms should just watch TNG's Parallels. For all we know, this is the reality where Worf is married to Troi, has fourteen kids and came in fifth in the Bat'leth tournament.

 

[The rapture]

Prime Universe exists in parallel to the new one. It is that simple folks.


There is nothing in the movie to suggest this. There is sufficient dialogue to suggest otherwise. The prime universe is dead. Why else did Spock not go back to his "universe" if it was not dead?

 

[Zeppster]

So really...the concept of "strange new worlds" died with this movie as well.

Let's look at the "strange new worlds" visited in the other movies.

TMP: Earth (already been)
TWoK: Ceti Alpha V (not strange), Earth (already been), Genesis Planet
TSfS: Genesis Planet (already been), Vulcan (not strange), Earth (already been)
TVH: Vulcan (already been), Earth (already been)
TFF: Earth (already been), Nimbus III (not strange), God's Planet for about 5 minutes
TUC: Earth (already been), Rura Penthe (not strange), Kithomer (not strange)
GEN: Veridan III (not strange)
FC: Earth (already been)
INS: Baku Homeworld...sorta strange
NEM: Kolarus III (not strange), Romulus (already been)

Have you never seen the previous 10 movies?

Although I will say this if we went to earth 300 years from now or earth 300 years ago we would look at it as strange. So that may make the Earth's in FC and IV kinda strange, although the exact opposite of new.

 

[cmdrbolly]

So again, why are you needing to define me as one of your haters? Are you threatened by anyone else who might have had even the slightest of differences of opinion on this movie from your own?

Who's defining you? You responded, so I guess we are to assume you have defined yourself. That's sad.

I responded to a post directed at me in which you said...

"Meaning....you want to be left alone to hate in peace?"​

No where have I ever said I hated anything. But that doesn't seem to matter to you, you seem to be looking for someone to fight with.

Why are haters so threatened by people who like and enjoyed the film? Is their status as a hater somehow in jeopardy?

As someone who calls others who didn't hate the movie haters, you are obviously the one threatened by the positions of others around here (even if they differ in their view of the movie from yours by a small amount).

Might I suggest that you try just enjoying the movie for it's own sake and stop fighting people to define your position on a peace of entertainment.

Ah? You responded to my original post where I used the term 'haters'. WTF? If you're not a self-professed hater, then you must be one of those do gooders who like to think they're above the fray..that is until they join in. Again, WTF? Please take your Psych 101 elsewhere.

My initial post was directed at people who hate the film. People who don't are excluded. If you don't hate the film, bully for you. Dennis got the joke.

 

[theFirebottle]

Prime Universe exists in parallel to the new one. It is that simple folks.


There is nothing in the movie to suggest this. There is sufficient dialogue to suggest otherwise. The prime universe is dead. Why else did Spock not go back to his "universe" if it was not dead?

So when the back door of my place of work closes behind me and I can't go back in and get my sunglasses 'cuz it locks automatically, does that mean the whole library ceases to exist because I can't get back in?

 

[The rapture]

I have seen on several fan sites the idea that the "prime universe" is not gone and that this is an alternate universe etc. I am sorry but I am not buying that.

So this movie clearly wipes out TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. Only leaving ENT.

you are mad at Abrams because you are not buying the reasons from the director, writers and the characters in the movie? It is YOUR fault that Prime universe is gone.

HAHA It is my fault? Somehow I wrote this mess? The idea that I am responsible is laughable. There is enough dialogue among the characters that points out that Prime universe is gone. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Please do make the references from the movie? Also I am not buying some of the pretty big plot holes in the script either. I am not mad I am just annoyed by this cheap stunt. A little more care should of gone into this.

 

[Squiggy]

Prime Universe exists in parallel to the new one. It is that simple folks.


There is nothing in the movie to suggest this. There is sufficient dialogue to suggest otherwise.

Wait for it...

The prime universe is dead.

There wasn't enough evidence to suggest that the universes were parallel but there was enough evidence to suggest that it was erased.

Why else did Spock not go back to his "universe" if it was not dead?

He couldn't. It's not like he could snap his fingers and bounce from universe to universe.

 

[The rapture]

Prime Universe exists in parallel to the new one. It is that simple folks.


There is nothing in the movie to suggest this. There is sufficient dialogue to suggest otherwise. The prime universe is dead. Why else did Spock not go back to his "universe" if it was not dead?

So when the back door of my place of work closes behind me and I can't go back in and get my sunglasses 'cuz it locks automatically, does that mean the whole library ceases to exist because I can't get back in?

You can try and twist it anyway you want but the prime universe is dead. The movie clearly demonstrates this. Please include any information from the movie that suggests otherwise!

 

[The rapture]

He couldn't. It's not like he could snap his fingers and bounce from universe to universe.


If you go and watch TOS you will see that Spock could of easily went to the Guardian and fixed everything. Also there is that movie called STIV.

Prime universe is dead. You have provided nothing from the movie to suggest otherwise. The dialogue between Kirk and Spock and Nero and Pike suggests it.

 

[Squiggy]

He couldn't. It's not like he could snap his fingers and bounce from universe to universe.


If you go and watch TOS you will see that Spock could of easily went to the Guardian and fixed everything. Also there is that movie called STIV.

That was just time travel, not universe hopping.