Spoilers The Power of the Doctor grade and discussion thread

[jaime]

You're confusing skill with your personal taste. Chibnall has plenty of writing skills, demonstrated both outside and within Doctor Who. You just don't like how he chose to write.

Two things wrong with this statement.
-RTD only did rewrites on shows he was the showrunner for. He was never involved with rewrites for SJA scripts or Torchwood scripts, at least not the first two seasons.
-According to The Writer's Tale Chibnall was one of the writers whose scripts RTD never did rewrites for, just like Moffat. If RTD never did rewrites of Chibnall scripts when RTD was himself the showrunner of Doctor Who, he most certainly is not going to do a rewrite on a Chibnall script when Chibnall himself is the showrunner.

I don't even understand what was so "skillful" about the multi-Doctor scenes. It was all pretty typical Chibnall as far as I could tell.

The skill bit was me going for a football commentary style, flavour of the day and all that — the only skill shown that seems not usual for Chibnall is noticing or respecting continuity (Adric, brave heart, veiled reference to the first time Ace left the Doctor in the NAs) and was not — in this instance — making reference to his skill as a writer. Although…
Regardless, my point is that those moments do not feel in keeping with his previous style. Although they do in the ‘regular as clockwork’ frame of thinking — a tiny character beat interrupted as stuff has to happen. And of course in that quite often the moments that follow are shall we politely say homages to earlier things.

In terms of RTD and rewrites, he’s done uncredited work for BF on Torchwood I believe, and since he’s showrunner going forwards I can see him making a few requests or suggestions (like Moffat asking for Jenny to be kept alive I believe, though he never did anything with it, unlike River Song) to help the handover. Especially as we are heading into the sixtieth.

They don’t feel like his usual work, without getting into whether or not his usual work is any good or particularly skilful. (The general consensus probably still has him being Pip and Janed to the post though… )

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I don't even understand what was so "skillful" about the multi-Doctor scenes. It was all pretty typical Chibnall as far as I could tell.

They showcase a basic understanding of the given Doctors, and the Davison-McCoy hologram scenes are starkly contrasting the overall Whittaker incarnation as it is the Doctor making a case for his relationship with Tegan and Ace respectively and showcasing emotion and actually caring for the given companion, whereas Chibnall never wrote Whittaker as anything other than emotionally stunted.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Just, not within his own era.

A matter of opinion, of course.

Focusing on only the solo efforts, I think "The Tsuranga Conundrum," "Eve of the Daleks," and "War of the Sontarans" are all excellent (I recognize I'm vastly in the minority on the first one) and I think "The Woman Who Fell to Earth," "The Ghost Monument," "Spyfall," and yes, "The Power of the Daleks" are all highly enjoyable.

 

[The Wormhole]

like Moffat asking for Jenny to be kept alive I believe,

That story's been conflated over the years. All Moffat said after reading the script for The Doctor's Daughter was that it was regrettable that Jenny died. Because of that comment, RTD decided to rewrite the ending so that she would live. Moffat never made a formal request on the matter, and indeed he never planned to use Jenny anyway.

 

[jaime]

They showcase a basic understanding of the given Doctors, and the Davison-McCoy hologram scenes are starkly contrasting the overall Whittaker incarnation as it is the Doctor making a case for his relationship with Tegan and Ace respectively and showcasing emotion and actually caring for the given companion, whereas Chibnall never wrote Whittaker as anything other than emotionally stunted.

It was stark when sat next to Graham and his cancer fears a few years back, and weird when placed next to 13s inability to even take a minute to ask how the exes were doing.
Like I said — that wasn’t this Doctor in the holograms. A kind reading of it says that it was the Tardis herself, since that’s what’s running the hologram. (Something else borrowed from Parting Of The Ways)

It is entirely possible that Davison and McCoy, and Fielding (even after a long break) and Aldred are just so much better at acting and conveying emotion than the current Tardis Crew, but I think that may be unfair, and to me it’s a writing failure.
(The network cable unplug is a production design failure, of the like not seen since Battlefield.)

Edit:
And just because it’s really bugging me, look no further than the leaving of Dan at the start of this episode.
Turlough got a better goodbye, and he started his time in the Tardis actively trying to *kill* the Doctor.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

A matter of opinion, of course.

Focusing on only the solo efforts, I think "The Tsuranga Conundrum," "Revolution of the Daleks," and "War of the Sontarans" are all excellent (I recognize I'm vastly in the minority on the first one) and I think "The Woman Who Fell to Earth," "The Ghost Monument," "Spyfall," and yes, "The Power of the Daleks" are all highly enjoyable.

I almost entirely disagree, especially on The Tsuranga Conundrum (which is just banal, and features one of the worst guest acting in the entire history of the show), Revolution of the Daleks (OK, the Captain Jack/Yaz scene is fantastic, but that's the problem - Chibnall doesn't know how to write his own creations interacting with themselves, only with other people's creations because he understands their boundaries and he has no actual core for his own characters), War of the Sontarans (which is serviceable at best, but again features the companions being absolutely useless), The Ghost Monument (which is dull as dishwater), The Power of the Doctor (which never makes sense, is unabashedly stupid about it and forgets that fanwank-compretent storytelling=meaningless), and Spyfall (whose first part is exceedingly too long, and whose second part is just terrible).

Surprisingly, I can't hate The Woman Who Fell to Earth, as it always reminds me how starkly different it felt from the Moffat that preceded it. I don't care for it, but it might be Chibnall most earnest script, and I respect it for that.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I almost entirely disagree, especially on The Tsuranga Conundrum (which is just banal, and features one of the worst guest acting in the entire history of the show), Revolution of the Daleks (OK, the Captain Jack/Yaz scene is fantastic, but that's the problem - Chibnall doesn't know how to write his own creations interacting with themselves, only with other people's creations because he understands their boundaries and he has no actual core for his own characters), War of the Sontarans (which is serviceable at best, but again features the companions being absolutely useless), The Ghost Monument (which is dull as dishwater), The Power of the Doctor (which never makes sense, is unabashedly stupid about it and forgets that fanwank-compretent storytelling=meaningless), and Spyfall (whose first part is exceedingly too long, and whose second part is just terrible).

Surprisingly, I can't hate The Woman Who Fell to Earth, as it always reminds me how starkly different it felt from the Moffat that preceded it. I don't care for it, but it might be Chibnall most earnest script, and I respect it for that.

Again, all a matter of opinion.

That said, I was rushing out the door when I wrote that post and I meant "Eve of the Daleks" instead of "Revolution of the Daleks."

 

[jaime]

I think many things in media always come to a matter of opinion BUT there is also a long established framework that can lead to a kind of objectivity. And when those frameworks are applied to Who (and they have been, for a very long time now) this now-over era does not fare well, and Chibnall’s writing does not fare well in particular. And when applying this same critical frameworks to other writers, including his peers, including one or two who worked under him in this era — he still does not do well.

 

[Jedman67]

I always found the 10th doctor's line about "feels like dying" and "some new man sauntering off." to be heartbreaking. The next doctor may have memories and some personality remnants but that total sum that made up THAT doctor is gone forever.

I always thought that was just Ten being a little overdramatic, but it's not untrue. The Doctor is the same person, but also not.
Regeneration is dying, in a sense. Some regenerations hurt more than others.
There's no one size fits all and I kinda like it that way.

 

[Australis]

IMO, regeneration is dying, and the cells completely rebuild themselves into someone completely different, it's the only way to get past the trauma, and then the package of memories and experiences is installed; when you boil it down, we are our memories and experiences, we could lose limbs and senses but we would still be who we are (yes, sometimes changed by the experience and loss but still us).

 

[The Knappos]

I don’t see it as dying. It’s like in the real world when someone has a significant life event ( death of a parent, sibling, spouse, child etc) or gets knocked on the head or other trauma and undergo a personality shift as a result. Same person, different persona. It’s just regeneration in Who is dressed up with a light show and accompanying change of appearance

 

[Redfern]

That's the beauty of the concept. Everybody sees it a bit differently based upon one's hopes and fears.

Me? I see it like changing skivvies!

Rest of forum: "Way to ruin the moment, Bill!"

 

[The Wormhole]

That's the beauty of the concept. Everybody sees it a bit differently based upon one's hopes and fears.

Me? I see it like changing skivvies!

You can only change your skivvies twelve times?

 

[matthunter]

You can only change your skivvies twelve times?

Unfortunate implication - Tennant's return is just someone turning Ten inside-out for an extra day or so's wear.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Bump! Well, literally. In this interview, Jodie Whittaker reveals that she was pregnant when filming her last few DW scenes, thus making her the first Doctor to really have two hearts!
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...DXuQ-7SjRt9WOicCpikao_H1VPQ_zCKHih514pv3dxkrQ

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Ha, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing this news.

 

[Samurai8472]

Imagine the storylines? Imagine the fallout?

"The 13th doctor finds herself for the first time pregnant and fighting daleks!"

They would have either had the doctor hide behind the Tardis console more or give Mandip a bigger role.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Missed opportunity

 

[Captaindemotion]

Son of The Doctor?

 

[Starkers]

Taking all manner of stuff like Looms out of the equation and presuming for a moment that Timelords reproduce like humans...what would happen if a pregnant Timelord regenerated? Presumably the foetus would be reabsorbed back into the body as part of the regeneration? Sorry icky thought for a Monday morning!