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Spoilers The Power of the Doctor grade and discussion thread

How do you rate The Power of the Doctor?


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    68
I guess it's the nature of what makes us, us. We are the sum of all our parts and I guess if you change any of those parts we might technically be the same person, and yet we're also not. In the worst case scenario where you look at amnesia or dementia or personality changes bought on by head trauma, any one of us is capable of becoming a different person, but on a less depressing note, as Eleven says before he regenerates we all change all through our lives. 52 year old me meeting 26 year old me isn't going to be quite as radical as the fifth Doctor meeting the 10th, but those two versions of me will look and act differently. Would they even get on?
 
I guess it's the nature of what makes us, us. We are the sum of all our parts and I guess if you change any of those parts we might technically be the same person, and yet we're also not. In the worst case scenario where you look at amnesia or dementia or personality changes bought on by head trauma, any one of us is capable of becoming a different person, but on a less depressing note, as Eleven says before he regenerates we all change all through our lives. 52 year old me meeting 26 year old me isn't going to be quite as radical as the fifth Doctor meeting the 10th, but those two versions of me will look and act differently. Would they even get on?
That's why Moff's speech for Eleven's parting was brilliant. He's always the same guy but with significant and obvious differences in attitudes and perspectives, yet still is the same guy who one "stole the TARDIS and run away". I love that speech!
 
My son and I were talking a little while ago about families, reminiscing when there was husband, wife and one child. And then other children come along, and that first family is gone. You are still the same people, but in subtle ways you aren't, and a dynamic has changed. Part of life, and you wouldn't be without the other kids... but still sad.
 
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My son and I were talking a little while agio about families, reminiscing when there was husband, wife and one child. And then other children come along, and that first family is gone. You are still the same people, but in subtle ways you aren't, and a dynamic has changed. Part of life, and you wouldn't be without the other kids... but still sad.
That's a really good point. And that perspective changes for everyone. It's even weirder for someone such as myself who was an only child for nearly eleven years before getting a sibling. And yet, even at 40, despite having three (albeit much younger) half-brothers, I still find myself thinking as an only child...but at the same time, as an older brother to three. It's a weird dichotomy and I imagine The Doctor experiences something similar.
 
And one thing that gets about this insipid story is how the rumors leading up to it were so, so much more interesting. Obviously experiece discounted them being real because they WERE exciting in both fannish and storytelling ways, but I can't help but feel that they were so good.

The rumors? We all remember them:

1) The clean-shaven Master was a newly regenerated post-Missy, still-good Master who was gonna help the Doctor face the Rasputin Master (who escapes to 1918 because of the Timeless Children incident and thus had to bury himself in another man's persona) who would then twist the clean shaven Master's beliefs and force him to become O, leading the way for the Spyfall development.
2) The Doctor was gonna deregenerate throughout the episode, potentially through all incarnations, making it a struggle and an uncertainty if she was ever gonna regenerate ever again. Dilemma/tension! Certainly more than what we got.
3) Yaz was working under the Master this whole time! And was gonna be killed by the Master. Now, maybe not the latter, but the former sounds exciting. Would have retroactively explained the Doctor's distance to her more plausibly (that she knew but also she was essentially good and decent thus was trying to find a way to deal with it).

Those are the ones I paid attention to, and these ones I really honestly liked. OF COURSE Chibnall's limited imagination could never, ever grasp these kinds of fun storytelling possibilities (why introduce a susceptible companion storyline, when ignoring that said companion works just as well with little fuss and without much bother for actual new ideas), nevertheless I lament that at the very least we didn't something outwardly and unapologetically exciting.

Ah, well. Roll on, RTD2, you can't arrive here any faster?!
 
I mean, I get it. Not everyone dislikes this era, but this special is examplary of all of Chibnall's worst insticts as a Who writer, with clear disdain toward the extended universe (and really, for DW, which the BBC even claims there is no canon and all of it counts, unlike any other franchise out there, INCLUDING Trek, means something), ignorant characterization (so Yaz was apparently never told about the Fugitive Doctor, ever?!), including the campiest, most pantomime iincarnation of the Master (WHY WAS HE POSING AS RASPUTIN?!) as Dhawan seemingly goes for broke and throws away all subtlety in the Master's stupidest plot ever: to become the Doctor (!!!!!). Like, (a)did he actually think anyone would buy into this and (b)why do it? Was he running out of regenerations? Its never explained. And frankly, I don't understand what happened there at all - he he steal her body or fuse with it? Help me out here, Chibnall!

And as you can see, I can't stress how remarkably incoherent the entire affair felt. Someone asked if the plot was any more incoherent than The Five Doctors or The Day of the Doctor, and I'd argue that yes, it was! I watched it twice and I still don't know what I just saw, whereas I never had that worry with The Five Doctors (whose plot is extremely straightforward and easy to understand, if very convoluted in how it gets its guest stars together) and The Day of the Doctor (whose most confusing aspect was the way the Zygons moved around between paintings, but still nothing compared to this).

As far as regeneration stories go, this frankly is the worst one. I can't think of another one that is so bitterly disappointing in how it treats its main star. I never once felt Chibnall ever treated Whittaker's Doctor with any respect and in fact has treated with some long, long expositions that even by this one she's never been comfortable with, and always had her been a victim of her own wonderment. As if she's a uniquely naive individual whose never travelled far in the galaxy before. And what's more, every other regeneration story in NuWho has at least the good grace of showcasing the best of the given Doctor during a moment of unique crisis. The Ninth's "coward, every time" or Tenth's "lived too long" or Eleventh's "Never, ever tell me the rules!" or Twelfth's glorious speech to the Masters in The Doctor Falls. There's nothing for Whittaker here, at all. Never does she stand out and is not even allowed to be the one who makes amends with her past companions. As amazingly fun and lovely it is to see Davison and Fielding interact on-screen after all those years, having (the appreciably better actor) Peter Davison explain to Tegan that he missed her is teriffyingly ill-judged.

Imagine, if you will, Death of the Doctor. The scene where Eleven, Sarah Jane and Jo Grant were transported to an off-world planet and try to fix the transporter to get back to wherever it was they were going to. Imagine if, when Eleven is describing what Jo Grant did after she left the Third Doctor (thus proving he kept, in fact, in-touch with her albeit in distance), his face turned into Jon Pertwee's and started saying all the same dialogue. Sure, it'd be great that Pertwee and Manning had interacted once again, and it would make sense fan-wise, BUT it would minimize and indeed take away from Matt Smith's incarnation if he was not able to sell the very idea that, indeed, he is the same man as Jon Pertwee. Having Jodie Whittaker turn into Peter Davison is, for a fan, nice, but it actually and really takes away from Whittaker's incarnation that she can't convince Tegan on her own and in fact has to turn into the Fifth Doctor for her to admit he missed him. And indeed, she misses him, the Fifth Doctor. Not the Doctor in general.

Exact same goes with McCoy and Aldred. Again, the scene feels like Chibnall simply didn't trust Whittaker to deliver that emotional punch that was needed. Indeed, by having McCoy settle his relationship with Ace (in another staunchly conservative take of the never-wrong Doctor, a take of the Doctor that is also decidedly Chibnall and one that I decidedly also hate) it means that Whittaker never has to prove she's the same person as David Bradley or any of the incarnations seen in her own psyche. And that's how the entire run has felt, like Chibnall barely made any kind of conscious effort to connect the Thirteenth with any of the previous Doctors (most of all the Twelfth, as I still believe and will always believe that Chibnall just simply never ever watched that run).

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is, this is exactly the kind of thing an Ian Levine would adore, because its all surface with no substance. And indeed, it is one of only two stories Levine actually liked, and the only he's publicly adored, I wonder why. Like them or not, at least End of Time and Time of the Doctor manage to get the best out of the respective exiting Doctors by keeping them squarely in focus. For all the silliness of the Master Race, you remember and enjoy the Ten/Wilf scenes and in fact are moved by them. For all the fast pace and slow first half, you appreciate the storytelling heft of having the Eleventh Doctor, the most outrageous, outwardly and simply more travelling of the Doctor to dedicate his life to stay in one place for the sake of one village and its peoples. And to boot, Tennant and Smith respectively give some of their best performances in those episodes.

Anyway. Guess I just hate Chibnall, lol!

Not only do I have the feeling someone else wrote the scenes with the past doctors, but I suspect it was someone else’s idea — and that a key part of that is the subtext that these holograms *aren’t* the doctor, but the Tardis itself, standing In Loco Doctoris as it were. Because this particular doctor is still emotionally constipated.
 
I’ll just mention the bit no one else seems to mention…

The Master doing his own ‘I don’t want to go’ style line, suggesting he loathes being himself.
It’s the closest this new Master got to acknowledging the existence of Missy.
 
Not only do I have the feeling someone else wrote the scenes with the past doctors, but I suspect it was someone else’s idea — and that a key part of that is the subtext that these holograms *aren’t* the doctor, but the Tardis itself, standing In Loco Doctoris as it were. Because this particular doctor is still emotionally constipated.
Who do you imagine wrote the scenes, if not Chibnall?
 
Who do you imagine wrote the scenes, if not Chibnall?

RTD has a record of uncredited rewrites on stuff, and we know that some stuff for this was recorded pretty late in the day. We also know he at least wrote the ‘new’ doctors opening lines — that’s just tradition.
It’s not impossible it was Chibnall, it just feels very unlike his work. So much so that it makes me suspect this wasn’t.
 
RTD has a record of uncredited rewrites on stuff, and we know that some stuff for this was recorded pretty late in the day. We also know he at least wrote the ‘new’ doctors opening lines — that’s just tradition.
It’s not impossible it was Chibnall, it just feels very unlike his work. So much so that it makes me suspect this wasn’t.
This is just silly. It was all in the can over a year ago aside from Tennant's side of the regeneration, which completed separately by Bad Wolf months later.

Chibnall didn't even know that RTD would be taking over until filming was completed.

The past Doctors were obviously part of the plan from the start - it's only natural in an anniversary adventure which already had integral roles for Ace and Tegan.
 
This is just silly. It was all in the can over a year ago aside from Tennant's side of the regeneration, which completed separately by Bad Wolf months later.

Chibnall didn't even know that RTD would be taking over until filming was completed.

The past Doctors were obviously part of the plan from the start - it's only natural in an anniversary adventure which already had integral roles for Ace and Tegan.

I just remember the leaks (with the classic doctors sitting in the cafe) coming very late in the day for filming to have still been happening, and even the stuff inside the Doctors mindscape feels like it could have been shot later (the fact we see Ncuti, in the trailer, in the same Mindscape also makes that thought cross my mind) and adjusted from being just Chef!Doctor and 13.
As I say, not impossible it was Chibnall, but it’s all very out of line with much of his recent work on Who. We know the last lines were adjusting late in the day with editing too. (The script is online.)
That’s why I suspect, but am not exactly yelling j’accuse from the rooftops as it were.
Late in the day to demonstrate some skill, but even a broken time-Lord is right twice an era.
 
RTD has a record of uncredited rewrites on stuff,
Two things wrong with this statement.
-RTD only did rewrites on shows he was the showrunner for. He was never involved with rewrites for SJA scripts or Torchwood scripts, at least not the first two seasons.
-According to The Writer's Tale Chibnall was one of the writers whose scripts RTD never did rewrites for, just like Moffat. If RTD never did rewrites of Chibnall scripts when RTD was himself the showrunner of Doctor Who, he most certainly is not going to do a rewrite on a Chibnall script when Chibnall himself is the showrunner.
 
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I don't even understand what was so "skillful" about the multi-Doctor scenes. It was all pretty typical Chibnall as far as I could tell.
 
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