THE ORVILLE S2, E9: "IDENTITY, PART II"

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Serveaux, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    The Expanse might get more right than your typical sci-fi program, but it's hardly the "Scientist's Bible" everyone makes it out to be.
     
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  2. ISS-Magnum

    ISS-Magnum Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    At least two crewmen were killed during the battle. Blown out into space. It was quick but cruel.
     
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  3. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is not excuse for having LESS realism. These aren't WW1 triplanes--this close quarters fights are just silly.
     
  4. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    They don't need an excuse - it's space opera. I'm not a big space battle fan but I did enjoy this one.
     
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  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Who cares? It was a sequence with nice visuals. Nice visuals is all I need from my space battles, and indeed the only real point any of them really serve. And this one delivered on that, making it a satisfactory space battle as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  6. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    If you're looking to learn science from shows about people sailing from star to star to meet aliens in space ships...okay, you're probably a kid living in 1936.
     
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  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thoroughly enjoyed the space battles in "Identity Part II." For me, the destruction of the ships was more emotional than often the case in Star Trek. One factor is that in the final battle The Orville was not a top-model ship. It was just a medium-class ship and that elevated the stakes for it somewhat. Once Isaac had disabled the Kaylon aboard, theoretically it lost all of its plot armor. When they went after the battle-craft that had broken through the lines, they were part of a formation with other ships.

    Emotional content in space battles is hard to get. The original Star Wars did it. The Empire Strikes Back didn't even try, opting instead for the asteroid chase, which admittedly was exciting. Return of the Jedi achieved it at least during the opening moments when the fleet came out of hyperspace. But after they discovered the shield was still up, the story elements depended upon non-space battle issues. Lando's holding action and point-blank tactics were interesting, but there was very little emotional content bleeding out of the space battle, except maybe the shock and surprise of learning that the Death Star was actually operational. A lot of it was just short cuts of ships flying around, and some of the edits didn't make continuity sense (a problem that existed but that was far less significant in the original film).

    nuBSG was one of the last times I felt emotional watching a space battle. SG-1 and SGA also managed to give me the feels in space battles, though on far fewer occasions. I got the feels in ENT "Horizon" and "Azati Prime" (particularly the false-color shots of Enterprise taking out the listening post). TNG succeeded in "The Survivors," "Redemption" (part 1), and "All Good Things...". Original VFX TOS did it in "The Doomsday Machine," "Balance of Terror," "Journey to Babel," and even the teaser of "Errand of Mercy."

    But when it came to the DS9 "wall of ships" as @Serveaux put it, meh. The heroes always had plot armor, and you could feel it. There were exceptions. "Paradise Lost" gave me the feels when it was Starfleet on Starfleet. "Once More Unto the Breach" was emotional but also significant because the final battle wasn't even on screen. "The Way of the Warrior" was interesting, and I was feeling it, right up until the Klingons boarded DS9, at which point it jumped the shark.

    It's not always about VFX technology, realism, or anything like that. It's about emotional involvement.

    YMMV. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  8. Amaris

    Amaris Fuzzy Logic Generator Premium Member

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    This was a great conclusion to a terrific part one! The space battle was fine (not really a space battles kind of guy), and seeing the Krill rush in to the rescue was satisfying. I'm more interested in seeing how Isaac begins patching up the damage to his reputation, and whether or not he and Claire will ever reconcile to the point where maybe that spark could be reignited.
     
  9. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Personally I hope Ed and Kelly don't get back together. I think it would be nice to see a romantic relationship develop into just a friendship between a man and a woman instead of the vice versa we usually get.
     
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  10. Amaris

    Amaris Fuzzy Logic Generator Premium Member

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    I kind of agree? I don’t know, it feels like Ed and Kelly still love each other, but maybe it would be better if they just remained friends. They might have the kind of relationship that breaks down once they make it a romantic one.
     
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  11. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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  12. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nice scene, it's a shame they cut it.
     
  13. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  14. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting that weapons discharge was at least partially automated. That sounds like it's on the road to an AI-driven simulation. To pull all of this off in just eight weeks (using previously designed ships, at least in many/most instances) is truly groundbreaking.
     
  16. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    Honestly it's a pretty terrible analogy, because dinosaurs and mammals evolved at more or less exactly the same time in the Late Triassic. It's just that Mammals stayed (mostly) small and inconspicuous until the (non-avian) dinosaurs died out.

    Come to think of it, Ed's statement seems to indicate that as an analogy mammals out-competed dinosaurs, which is manifestly false. Since they only got their "shot" after everything which wasn't small and birdy was dead, they were less well adapted, and basically got lucky. Mammals weren't the "next model" or anything.
     
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  17. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, it really doesn't.

    He used the word "successor." Consulting my dictionary [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/successor]:

    Definition of successor
    one that follows
    especially : one who succeeds to a throne, title, estate, or office​

    where "succeeds" means [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/succeeds]:

    Definition of succeed
    intransitive verb
    1a : to come next after another in office or position or in possession of an estate
    especially : to inherit sovereignty, rank, or title​

    and I can stop right there, because bingo, that's what he's talking about. It's not about anything except what has the position of the dominant class of creatures on the face of the Earth.
     
  18. Astra

    Astra Captain Captain

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    I agree. Did they feel forced to put a humor scene in because the fans complained this season was too serious? Gordon's try to talk really wasn't that funny.
     
  19. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    It was Gordon. Listening to Gordon is always cringey. That's his schtick.
     
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  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    As this was likely filmed before the season aired, I doubt it.
     
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