THE ORVILLE S1, E9: "CUPID'S DAGGER"

[Trekker4747]

Well, Yaphet and Finn didn't know, so in a way what they did was consensual, But yeah, the alien roofie thing did miss the mark, the episode did have some funny side moments though, I don't think it's intent was insensitivity to victims of rape or their families, but it could have been better thought out for sure.

Yaphet had every reason to "know." She had made her opposition to him clear and to the mark and was at the point of reporting him to HR if he didn't knock it off and, suddenly, she's head-over-heels for him. Yaphet should've known something was up and turned her down and, really, that would've been more dramatically interesting for the character. For him to turn down his "dream" because he knew it wasn't "real" and for him to be the genesis of people figuring out something was going on and then, at the end, Dr. Finn thanks Yaphet for not taking advantage of her and says they may never be a couple but they can maybe be friends or something along those lines.

But, no, he basically rapes her.

That's probably the most "upseting" aspect of this episode for me that that whole scenario wasn't entirely thought through by the show-runners and was very poorly timed for release considering the wave of news coming out right now about sexual misconduct in Hollywood.

When Kelly started gushing about Alien Rob Lowe to Alara I figured there was something going on here beyond romance and suspected it to be something having to do with ARL and something like the Psi 2000 Virus/Polywater Intoxication from TOS/TNG was going around, particularly after Ed started his school-girl gushing and the stuff with the Dr. and Yaphet started. I did like how it ended with a "Maybe..." that Kelly didn't "truly" cheat on Ed and was under influence by these pheromones.

The "solution" to the problem of their mission was a bit too easy and too nicely wrapped up, I don't think we needed to go with a full role-reversal/personality flip with the aliens. (Like the one alien taking a "female role" and saying he didn't want to tell his crew until his parents knew.) Ed's gushing over ARL was borderline but seemed to not be treading too much into "Gay Stereotype" and felt more like the episode of Seinfeld with Kieth Hernandez and Jerry acting "school-girl" over a friendship with him. (Though it Ed's was at 11 since it was clearly more of a "romantic" love than a heroworship thing.)

There was also a touch of "gay panic" in this episode which is sort of counter to what we saw in the episode dealing with Bortus. I know we've not seen much in the episodes that humanity has evolved to "perfection" or Star Trek-like levels of equality or people being accepting of all others but Gordon's reaction to Ed's gushing over ARL seemed a bit on the line. ("Soon he's going to be into *him.* ) But it didn't come out that way too much with Ed reacting to his own behavior in a disgusted way and seemingly accepting it and moving on.

It was an okay episode but I'd say the weakest one yet and we've been on a leveling trend since "Majority Rule" which was an episode I really liked. Hopefully next week we can get back more into the swing of things.

And, man, when the opening notes of My Heart Will Go On started I laughed, just the idea of it...

YOU WILL BE SILENT!

 

[BillJ]

There are topics which I feel shoud not be funny.

Sometimes we can discuss things under the guise of humor that we wouldn't otherwise be comfortable talking about.

 

[Trekker4747]

Those things shouldn't be sex crimes.

 

[Chilli]

I actually really enjoyed this episode. The comedic timing was great from everyone. The karaoke scene was the best thing ever.

But, the Blue Cosby thing was super-uncomfortable, yes.

A roofie knocks you out, or makes you disoriented. No one was roofied in this episode. This was more like turning Lt. Ilia up to eleven.

It was more a love potion than a roofie. The idea of a love potion is also quite dubious ethically, of course, and it's a mark frequently missed. (See also: Harry Potter, Torchwood, and a bazillion other things.)

Sometimes we can discuss things under the guise of humor that we wouldn't otherwise be comfortable talking about.

I assume that the fact that Kelly didn't actually consent to cheating to Ed will be picked up again later, with a more serious tone.

I fear the Yaphit/Finn thing will remain super-uncomfortable. (It was already before this ep with his casual workplace sexual harassment.)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I actually really enjoyed this episode. The comedic timing was great from everyone. The karaoke scene was the best thing ever.

But, the Blue Cosby thing was super-uncomfortable, yes.



It was more a love potion than a roofie. The idea of a love potion is also quite dubious ethically, of course, and it's a mark frequently missed. (See also: Harry Potter, Torchwood, and a bazillion other things.)



I assume that the fact that Kelly didn't actually consent to cheating to Ed will be picked up again later, with a more serious tone.

I fear the Yaphit/Finn thing will remain super-uncomfortable. (It was already before this ep with his casual workplace sexual harassment.)

Quite. Love potions are old as the hills of course (I mean, the idea of them).

Regarding how Yaphit's unwanted advances are being handled on the show, at least they had Finn stand up for herself after she'd had enough and threaten to call security on him if he didn't stop IIRC (can't refer back to the episode at the moment to check exactly what she threatened him with), that is at least before she got pheromoned. So, it would seem that it was understood that his behavior was actually out of line and could get him in trouble, or at least it would have been if he'd persisted.

 

[Trekker4747]

It was more a love potion than a roofie. The idea of a love potion is also quite dubious ethically, of course, and it's a mark frequently missed. (See also: Harry Potter, Torchwood, and a bazillion other things.)s

You're right, he didn't use chemicals to influence their decisions and took advantage of them, his BODY used chemicals to influence them and he took advantage of them.

 

[Mudd]

I really really wanted Bortus to sing My Heart Will Go On.

Seriously yes. I think they're working up to something.

 

[Mudd]

I don't understand the whole downward spiral thing. Majority Rules is my favorite episode of the season and last week's episode wasn't too bad. What was this series high point if it's on a downward spiral.

It's not. It's pretty consistently great...although this one was sure not my favorite.

One of the things I love about this show is that it will never be possible for fandom to take it seriously in the way they do Trek.

 

[Romulan_spy]

This episode had a very similar plot to the TNG episode "Sarek". Both episodes deal with the crew being on a sensitive diplomatic mission while something causes the crew to start acting weird, almost jeopardizing the diplomatic mission. So the plot was definitely very predictable. It was obvious to me that the artifact would reveal that both species have a common ancestor. The Orville seems to excel at doing Trek tropes but in an entertaining way.

This episode did have some really funny moments, mixed with some cringe worthy scenes as well. I thought the karaoke scene was fantastic. Bortus being interrupted just as he was about to sing a Celine Dion love song is comedy gold. I thought the elevator scenes were great too. I love that the aliens puts elevator music in the elevator. Yaphit turning into a flat goo filling up the rectangular pan definitely reminded me of Odo when he would rest in his liquid form. But the scene with Claire inside Yapphit's blob and enjoying herself was cringe worthy IMO.

I did think it was interesting that the episode left open the possibility that Grayson was under the influence of Derullo's love pheromone when she first cheated on Mercer. I do hope that Mercer and Grayson eventually get back together and this revelation might help with that.

 

[Mudd]

I 'm glad that they kept that ambiguous.

 

[BillJ]

One of the things I love about this show is that it will never be possible for fandom to take it seriously in the way they do Trek.

I'm sure that there are already fans arguing the finer point of the fictional societies and spaceships portrayed. And death to anyone that disagrees with their interpretations!

 

[The Wormhole]

I quite enjoyed this one. Sure, the actual plot was really easy to figure out, as soon as its laid out the two warring aliens want to know which of their DNA is present on the planet's ancient artifacts, it was very easy to figure out they both had a common ancestor, and once it's made clear that Blue Man is making those around him fall madly in love that becomes the obvious solution to why the aliens don't go to war.

But this episode definitely stands out in the humour area. Bortus getting ready to sing Celine Dion, and Yaphit explaining his family portrait being my two particular favourites, but really this episode had me laughing near constantly all throughout. I do like this show takes a more character oriented approach to things. I would say Star Trek would have focused more on the warring races and the disagreeable representatives, but then I'm sure someone would then bring up the TNG S1 episode as a counter-example where ironically the warring diplomats was the more interesting story and got less attention, and the attention it did get treated the matter like a joke, including the end when they began eating each other.

On a somewhat serious note, they probably should do another episode centering around Bortus and Klyden soon. It's clear they have some serious issues and their marriage seems to be deteriorating. This really should be addressed before the season ends.

 

[eschaton]

I did think it was interesting that the episode left open the possibility that Grayson was under the influence of Derullo's love pheromone when she first cheated on Mercer. I do hope that Mercer and Grayson eventually get back together and this revelation might help with that.

While I hated the entire episode, that last bit is what killed it for me. It took the one interesting part of Grayson's character - her one flaw - and explicitly said she might not have been in control of her faculties at the time. This means she's a less interesting character by far than she was at the start of the show.

While she was under the influence as well, I also hated how this show treated Finn. I wasn't the biggest fan of the episode last week, but it gave her character a lot of newfound depth which this episode threw out the window entirely. It was embarrassing watching those scenes with her falling over Yaphit.

Malloy's weird quasi-homophobia seemed very out of place as well.

The only parts of the episode I genuinely enjoyed were the opening karaoke bits and the elevator interludes. Everything else was either dull or embarrassing.

 

[Kelthaz]

Malloy's weird quasi-homophobia seemed very out of place as well.

I agree with your other criticisms, but I don't get this one. When did Malloy display any homophobia?

 

[Mudd]

Darulio wouldn't give her a straight answer, so maybe we have to wait and see where this goes.

Clearly he sees himself as having good intentions (I phrased that carefully) and good feelings toward both of them. He may be trying to make things easier on them.

 

[Mudd]

I agree with your other criticisms, but I don't get this one. When did Malloy display any homophobia?

You know, if one has to call it "quasi-homophobia" maybe there's nothing to see there.

There wasn't any.

 

[The Wormhole]

Malloy's weird quasi-homophobia seemed very out of place as well.

I wouldn't call it homophobia. He was confused by Ed's sudden apparent attraction to the Blue Man probably because in all the years they've known each other he's never shown attraction to men before. So Malloy wasn't taking issue with Ed being attracted to a man, per se, just Ed acting out of character.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I don't think Malloy was being homophobic, merely concerned for his friend who was acting very strange. I mean, to suddenly get a crush on the guy that you hated 5 minutes ago because he's the guy that your ex-wife had sex with, is definitely odd behavior. I think any good friend would be worried.

 

[eschaton]

I agree with your other criticisms, but I don't get this one. When did Malloy display any homophobia?

I said quasi-homophobia. He seemed weirded out by Mercer's interest in Darulio - presumably because he had never seen his friend interested in a man before.

Edit: A lot of the "humor" in the Mercer bits rubbed me the wrong way as well. Were we supposed to find it funny that a straight guy was acting out of character and infatuated with another man?

 

[Romulan_spy]

Edit: A lot of the "humor" in the Mercer bits rubbed me the wrong way as well. Were we supposed to find it funny that a straight guy was acting out of character and infatuated with another man?

I think this episode had the most "family guy" type humor of any Orville episode so far. It mixed harmless humor like Bortus attempting karaoke or the alien constantly running into Mercer and Grayson on the elevator with more risque humor like Claire having sex with a gelatinous blob or Mercer acting "gay" where you laugh but also wonder at the same time if it crosses the line or not.