The origin of 1701-A

[darkwing_duck1]

You know, my thought is this: there were probably so many Excelsiors and Mirandas built compared to how many Constitutions were built that there were still a decent number of them in service by the time the Dominion War was beginning, and a lot more in mothballs that could be quickly reactivated for service.

When you think about it, pretty much all of the other ships we saw in action (according to backstage materials) were at least in the NCC-5xxxx-ish range, which, to me, means they were probably built in the late 2340s or early 2350s. The only ones lower that I can think of were of those two classes - and those were only in the NCC-3xxxx range, with one or two possible exceptions.

Actually if you have the '99 Edition of the Encyclopedia (whose information all comes from either aired eps or backstage sources) the distribution is pretty even. Check out the list of starships with classes and registries.

 

[Gorn Captain]

Okay, where to begin?

First, you are correct, Spock volunteered the Enterprise. I don't understand the point, though. I didn't say that the CINC chose Kirk for the mission, I said he "consented" to Kirk's selection. I deliberately used that word in reference to Spock volunteering the ship and vouching for Kirk.

I also do not think that rehabiliation of Kirk's reputation was the point. However, "milk run"? No way. Think about the dialogue used by the CINC in the movie....(paraphrase): There are those who will be unhappy with this development...but they'll think twice about attacking the Enterprise under your command.

No, this was no milk run. He was sent because he was James T. Kirk and you send your best.

 

[SonicRanger]

True, but consider that 1) SPOCK was the one who reccomended Kirk for the job, and 2) Kirk, with his history of hatred for Klingons at that point was the perfect patsy.

I don't think that assignment represented some sort of "rehabilitation" of Kirk's rep. Remember, they were all scheduled for formal retirement at that point. Starfleet was expecting this to be a "milk run" basically, not knowing it had "vipers in it's nest".

Okay, where to begin?

First, you are correct, Spock volunteered the Enterprise. I don't understand the point, though. I didn't say that the CINC chose Kirk for the mission, I said he "consented" to Kirk's selection. I deliberately used that word in reference to Spock volunteering the ship and vouching for Kirk.

I also do not think that rehabiliation of Kirk's reputation was the point. However, "milk run"? No way. Think about the dialogue used by the CINC in the movie....(paraphrase): There are those who will be unhappy with this development...but they'll think twice about attacking the Enterprise under your command.

No, this was no milk run. He was sent because he was James T. Kirk and you send your best.

Perhaps Admiral Cartwright, who was in on the conspiracy, argued heavily in favor of sending Kirk on the mission because (1) Valeris was scheduled to be on the Enterprise and (2) he figured that sending Klingon-hating Kirk would work in favor of the conspiracy's goals.

 

[Praetor]

You know, my thought is this: there were probably so many Excelsiors and Mirandas built compared to how many Constitutions were built that there were still a decent number of them in service by the time the Dominion War was beginning, and a lot more in mothballs that could be quickly reactivated for service.

When you think about it, pretty much all of the other ships we saw in action (according to backstage materials) were at least in the NCC-5xxxx-ish range, which, to me, means they were probably built in the late 2340s or early 2350s. The only ones lower that I can think of were of those two classes - and those were only in the NCC-3xxxx range, with one or two possible exceptions.

Actually if you have the '99 Edition of the Encyclopedia (whose information all comes from either aired eps or backstage sources) the distribution is pretty even. Check out the list of starships with classes and registries.

Production info... or made up info? I'm talking about stuff that actually appeared on screen. I know there's a list here, a diagram there. But when it comes to actual names and registries shown on screen in these lists or put on models, the majority (not all) are relatively high up, methinks.

 

[Gorn Captain]

Perhaps Admiral Cartwright, who was in on the conspiracy, argued heavily in favor of sending Kirk on the mission because (1) Valeris was scheduled to be on the Enterprise and (2) he figured that sending Klingon-hating Kirk would work in favor of the conspiracy's goals.

That's an interesting theory. Makes sense. It depends on, and we don't know this either, what Cartwright's estimation of Kirk's abilities were.

 

[RyanKCR]

Perhaps Admiral Cartwright, who was in on the conspiracy, argued heavily in favor of sending Kirk on the mission because (1) Valeris was scheduled to be on the Enterprise and (2) he figured that sending Klingon-hating Kirk would work in favor of the conspiracy's goals.

That's an interesting theory. Makes sense. It depends on, and we don't know this either, what Cartwright's estimation of Kirk's abilities were.

Or makes it easier to pass the blame to Kirk as was attempted.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

You know, my thought is this: there were probably so many Excelsiors and Mirandas built compared to how many Constitutions were built that there were still a decent number of them in service by the time the Dominion War was beginning, and a lot more in mothballs that could be quickly reactivated for service.

When you think about it, pretty much all of the other ships we saw in action (according to backstage materials) were at least in the NCC-5xxxx-ish range, which, to me, means they were probably built in the late 2340s or early 2350s. The only ones lower that I can think of were of those two classes - and those were only in the NCC-3xxxx range, with one or two possible exceptions.

Actually if you have the '99 Edition of the Encyclopedia (whose information all comes from either aired eps or backstage sources) the distribution is pretty even. Check out the list of starships with classes and registries.

Production info... or made up info? I'm talking about stuff that actually appeared on screen. I know there's a list here, a diagram there. But when it comes to actual names and registries shown on screen in these lists or put on models, the majority (not all) are relatively high up, methinks.

The Okuda's had complete access to production materials while they were working on the Encylclopedia. That includes the original screen-used LCARS transparencies, models, etc as well as writers notes, production art, etc.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

True, but consider that 1) SPOCK was the one who reccomended Kirk for the job, and 2) Kirk, with his history of hatred for Klingons at that point was the perfect patsy.

I don't think that assignment represented some sort of "rehabilitation" of Kirk's rep. Remember, they were all scheduled for formal retirement at that point. Starfleet was expecting this to be a "milk run" basically, not knowing it had "vipers in it's nest".

Okay, where to begin?

First, you are correct, Spock volunteered the Enterprise. I don't understand the point, though. I didn't say that the CINC chose Kirk for the mission, I said he "consented" to Kirk's selection. I deliberately used that word in reference to Spock volunteering the ship and vouching for Kirk.

I also do not think that rehabiliation of Kirk's reputation was the point. However, "milk run"? No way. Think about the dialogue used by the CINC in the movie....(paraphrase): There are those who will be unhappy with this development...but they'll think twice about attacking the Enterprise under your command.

No, this was no milk run. He was sent because he was James T. Kirk and you send your best.

Perhaps Admiral Cartwright, who was in on the conspiracy, argued heavily in favor of sending Kirk on the mission because (1) Valeris was scheduled to be on the Enterprise and (2) he figured that sending Klingon-hating Kirk would work in favor of the conspiracy's goals.

And the CinC, not REALLY expecting trouble, but playing it safe, went ahead, not knowing he'd been maneuvered into a set up.

 

[Praetor]

Actually if you have the '99 Edition of the Encyclopedia (whose information all comes from either aired eps or backstage sources) the distribution is pretty even. Check out the list of starships with classes and registries.

Production info... or made up info? I'm talking about stuff that actually appeared on screen. I know there's a list here, a diagram there. But when it comes to actual names and registries shown on screen in these lists or put on models, the majority (not all) are relatively high up, methinks.

The Okuda's had complete access to production materials while they were working on the Encylclopedia. That includes the original screen-used LCARS transparencies, models, etc as well as writers notes, production art, etc.

Oh, I know. But I'm relatively convinced they just speculated on some stuff that was never original intent. Surely you don't think every stat of every ship casually mentioned was preordained for the purpose of the book?

Besides, if it ain't on screen, it ain't canon.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Production info... or made up info? I'm talking about stuff that actually appeared on screen. I know there's a list here, a diagram there. But when it comes to actual names and registries shown on screen in these lists or put on models, the majority (not all) are relatively high up, methinks.

The Okuda's had complete access to production materials while they were working on the Encylclopedia. That includes the original screen-used LCARS transparencies, models, etc as well as writers notes, production art, etc.

Oh, I know. But I'm relatively convinced they just speculated on some stuff that was never original intent. Surely you don't think every stat of every ship casually mentioned was preordained for the purpose of the book?

Besides, if it ain't on screen, it ain't canon.

If it's on the ship it's on screen even if we can't see it.

 

[Praetor]

I don't really see it that way.

 

[CoveTom]

Perhaps Admiral Cartwright, who was in on the conspiracy, argued heavily in favor of sending Kirk on the mission because (1) Valeris was scheduled to be on the Enterprise and (2) he figured that sending Klingon-hating Kirk would work in favor of the conspiracy's goals.

Except that when we see Admiral Cartwright at the briefing, he seems genuinely surprised by what's transpiring.

It seems hard to imagine that, as the commander of Starfleet, he would not be in the loop regarding the ongoing negotiations, particularly when they reached the point of planning to send a Starfleet vessel to rendevous with the Klingon flagship. But, none-the-less, when Spock says that Gorkon has proposed negotiations, Cartwright has to ask "negotiations for what?" and then goes on the protest the actions.

That would seem to imply that he had been kept out of the loop up to that point. So he would have had no reason to get involved with the conspiracy until then, nor would he have been involved in the selection of Kirk and the Enterprise for the mission.

That does seem odd, however. It would be somewhat akin to the President of the United States directly ordering the captain of an aircraft carrier on a mission without going through the chain of command. Technically, as commander-in-chief, he has the authority to do so, but it would be very unusual and quite a breach of protocol. But I don't know how else to interpret Cartwright's reaction and comments.

 

[Anticitizen]

You know what would be an intriguing twist? If the explosion on Praxis was engineered by the conspirators in the first place.

 

[Timo]

I'm sure the Romulans did it, and then played the two sides against each other...

The conspiracy may have involved all the three empires, but it is unlikely that the three empires worked together on it. More probably, each had an agenda of hurting the other two players - and the Romulans were in the position to do the most harm this way, and the least harm if they attempted a conventional war.

For the past couple of decades, the Feds and Klingons had engaged in a cold war only. Why? Because they thought neither side could win. So what changed, making both sides suddenly confident of a victory? The easy solution is that the Romulans promised to help one side, or at least not to help the other - and they made this promise to both Cartwright AND Chang... All that was needed then was a trigger, and sabotaging of Praxis served just nicely.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Praetor]

^That sounds right to me.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Perhaps Admiral Cartwright, who was in on the conspiracy, argued heavily in favor of sending Kirk on the mission because (1) Valeris was scheduled to be on the Enterprise and (2) he figured that sending Klingon-hating Kirk would work in favor of the conspiracy's goals.

Except that when we see Admiral Cartwright at the briefing, he seems genuinely surprised by what's transpiring.

It seems hard to imagine that, as the commander of Starfleet, he would not be in the loop regarding the ongoing negotiations, particularly when they reached the point of planning to send a Starfleet vessel to rendevous with the Klingon flagship.

Are we sure Cartwright was the commander of Starfleet I thought it was that other admiral that was hanging around with him, the guy the president talked with after Cartwright and West left the Operation Retrieve meeting.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

You know I was always told that the old Yorktown became NCC-1701-A, but I don't remember who told me that. Today though I think that keeping the 1701 registry was unnecessary, another Starship Enterprise should have had a new one, and it would have been cool if the new Enterprise would have been a new class even an Excelsior class Starship.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You know I was always told that the old Yorktown became NCC-1701-A, but I don't remember who told me that. Today though I think that keeping the 1701 registry was unnecessary, another Starship Enterprise should have had a new one, and it would have been cool if the new Enterprise would have been a new class even an Excelsior class Starship.

You know between Star Trek III and IV DC did a bunch of Star Trek comic issues with Kirk and co getting the Excelsior.

 

[Anticitizen]

They should have stolen the Excelsior in STIII instead of the Enterprise

 

[Praetor]

Perhaps Admiral Cartwright, who was in on the conspiracy, argued heavily in favor of sending Kirk on the mission because (1) Valeris was scheduled to be on the Enterprise and (2) he figured that sending Klingon-hating Kirk would work in favor of the conspiracy's goals.

Except that when we see Admiral Cartwright at the briefing, he seems genuinely surprised by what's transpiring.

It seems hard to imagine that, as the commander of Starfleet, he would not be in the loop regarding the ongoing negotiations, particularly when they reached the point of planning to send a Starfleet vessel to rendevous with the Klingon flagship.

Are we sure Cartwright was the commander of Starfleet I thought it was that other admiral that was hanging around with him, the guy the president talked with after Cartwright and West left the Operation Retrieve meeting.

I believe Cartwright was only the CinC in IV. Maybe they have a rotating CinC, like the Joint-Chiefs?