The One Thing You Could Change - Move Edition

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Bry_Sinclair, May 22, 2020.

  1. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So @Farscape One has posted in all the series forums about the thought experiment of changing one thing, so I thought it might be interesting to see what might happen if that was expanded to the Movies as well.

    Come up with only ONE thing you would change about a movie (either just for one or for all ten). It can be something about a character, a storyline, or even something physical, like a different ship design. It can be anything you like.

    As this idea has just popped into my head, I'll collect my thoughts and put down my own changes shortly.
     
  2. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TMP (1) - Spock is the one abducted by the initial V'Ger probe and is returned to the ship as an artificial lifeform, with Kirk and McCoy have to try and connect with. This would lead to Ilia being the one to make telepathic contact with V'Ger and learning its history, and the finale would see Kirk joining his best friend on a mission of exploring the possibilities that exist in his imagination (definitely better than a desk job or back-stabbing subordinates to steal their ships).

    TMP (2) - Since my first choice would probably be a bitter pill for many to swallow and would drastically change the rest of the movies, I'll opt for a less extreme option of increasing the action of the film over the more metaphysical debates that we got.

    TWOK - Really can't think of any changes I'd desperately want to see made, something might come to me later.

    TSFS - Pay Kirstie Alley whatever she wants!

    TVH - Not a movie I'm a fan of, so there are probably quite a lot of changes I'd make, but since I can only limit it to one, then I'll go for something small and nit-picky: consistency over the size of the Bird-of-Prey :lol:

    TFF - Oof! Where to start? Hire a new Director (it might not become a Shatner vanity project that way)?

    TUC - Put Valeris in the right colour uniform (really can't think of any other changes I'd want to see made, again something might come to me later).

    GEN - Take out the TOS cast, the handover of the franchise was made seven years earlier it doesn't need to eat into this film--though I would keep the E-B section at the start, though just out on a normal mission and not some PR pleasure cruise.

    FC - I'd like to see Beverly with more to do, whilst I like Lily, I do think some of her scenes (especially in the conference room) might've been better for the doctor to try and speak with her old friend and see how far he'd fallen--she also has the guts to call him on his bullshit too.

    INS - Do away with the Picard as action hero stuff--it makes sense in First Contact, as it's really more about him taking revenge than anything else, but just gets overdone with this film as well.

    NEM - Jings, another toughie. This is one I'd like to see with a more fuller rewrite, but if I can only change one thing then I'd have Shinzon played by Sir Patrick as well. I have nothing against Tom Hardy (the man is a gorgeous slab of manflesh) but his casting just didn't work here, better to have Stewart play both Jekyll and Hyde.
     
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  3. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    TMP – the uniforms.

    TWOK – have a flashback scene depicting the destruction of Ceti Alpha V and McGivers death.

    TSFS – not bring back Saavik for this film. Its preferable to recasting.

    TVH – add Eddie Murphy’s investigative reporter character.

    TFF – have Kirk, Spock, Bones and Sybok visit the River Styx.

    TUC – bring back Saavik for this film and not as a replacement for Valeris.

    GEN – have the rest of the TOS cast on the Ent-B with Kirk, Scotty and Chekov.

    FC – replace Lily with Captain Sisko.

    INS – add Dr Pulaski to the cast.

    NEM – have Wesley Crusher be the one blown out of the bridge when the hull was breached by the Scimitar instead of a random red shirt.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  4. Soong-type Android

    Soong-type Android Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm not sure it could be easily fixed with changing only one thing and agree it needs a fuller rewrite. No stupid clone Picard story. Have a better send off for the TNG crew. Have Riker already captaining the Titan so there could be 2 hero ships, like the Excelsior in ST6. Make Data or Worf the new first officer.
     
  5. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting idea. I never considered doing this for the movies because it's not serial, despite several directly leading into the other like II-IV.

    I will need to think on this. Good thread idea!
     
  6. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, but Bry, you could've invented your own title thread than aping off another members authenticity.
     
  7. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Writer and occasional starship commander Premium Member

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    Not making anymore movies after TMP. Using the sets, costumes and model to return Trek to TV as Star Trek II (series). Which, according to the Sackett Making of book is something they were interested in doing after the release of TMP.
     
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  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Apologies for the homage and the attempt to have a little fun whilst dealing with severe isolation brought on by two months worth of lockdown.
     
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  9. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commodore Commodore

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    1 faster pace
    2 less theater
    3 more kruge
    4 no change
    5 better effects
    6 no change
    7 better battle scene
    8 no change
    9 blue screen replaced with effects
    10 more consistency
    11 better ship designs
    12 more background
    13 better villain or no villain
     
  10. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    About six months after the release of "The Motion Picture", another Trek movie on the big screen (or at least a telemovie to hasten production), using all the main actors, costumes, TMP aliens, bridge extras and minor characters, sets and models, for another adventure. And six months after that, another one, and so on. Then let Harve Bennett make "Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan".

    Yep. When "It's a Wrap!" was auctioning the costumes, I was really surprised how many Epsilon Nine costumes had been created. Only a few were seen onscreen, but Roddenberry and Paramount could have outfitted a whole spacestation for a TV series with just what was in stock from Epsilon Nine.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  11. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    TMP - Technically nothing. What I'd have would be impossible: a mini-series that expands on TMP, done in late-'70s style. This mini-series would include Gene Roddenberry's ideas in his novelization and scenes, moments, or dialogue that are compatible with TMP but were cut from "In Thy Image". That's what I'd have in a dream world.

    TWOK - Change "On Earth, 200 years ago" to "On Earth, 300 years ago". If that's the best I can come up with, TWOK is pretty good as it is.

    TSFS - Have Uhura on the Enterprise when they steal it.

    TVH - "Admiral Kirk has been charged with nine violations of Starfleet Regulations". At the end of the movie, we only hear six. Make it one or the other. As it is, this is like Jimi Hendrix. "If six was nine."

    TFF - I'm not going to go for the nitpicky, mock-outrage stuff. This movie gets beat up on a lot. I'll go for something reasonable: it should be made more clear that Sybok is manipulating the crew through mild telepathy. I figure that's what's happening, but they should make it more clear. Otherwise, the crew turning on Kirk looks bad. Really bad.

    TUC - At the beginning of the film, it looks like the Enterprise crew have gone their separate ways, then later on it looks like they're about to retire. I don't think they make it clear if Kirk's days in command of the Enterprise were about to end or if they were already over.

    The TNG Movies... fun stuff. Okay, let's do this. I'm not going to go the way some of you think I'm going to go. I'll pull all my punches instead.

    GEN - Some of the lighting works, some of it doesn't. Moody lighting works. Blackened sets (where we see them) don't. I get this was to mask the fact that they were taking down the Enterprise sets to put up the Voyager sets. But they could've rearranged the shooting schedule for when they'd shoot on each set to avoid this. Or just wait to take down the TNG sets until shooting was finished. It's a thought.

    FC - Do I have to come up with something? Fine. At one point Picard says the Enterprise has 24 decks. Then later on Worf says they have 26. I'd change it so it's one or the other. Yup. That's all I've got. See what I said about TWOK.

    INS - The flesh-stretching. Pretty nasty.

    NEM - Cut the action scenes by half and put all the character scenes that were cut back in.

    Done and done.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  12. Cyfa

    Cyfa Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    TMP - I'd make Kirk less of an arse. Instead of usurping Decker's command, Kirk would remain an admiral and would oversee the mission while Captain Decker remains in command of the Enterprise. Until he's dissolved into beautiful static with Ilia, that is (then Kirk can become the CO).

    TWOK - I'd make Kirk less of an arse. Here is an experienced starship commander who always seemed one step ahead of the game (if not two) during TOS, ignoring valid suggestions from his (Spock's) crew and "getting caught with his britches down". Kirk should have raised shields, and thought of the three-dimensional thinking without Spock's prompt. Enterprise could still have been compromised by Reliant, just in ways that don't insult Kirk's intelligence.

    TSFS - Practically perfect in every way :adore:. However, there is one small thing I would change: a little more time/money for finishing the Genesis Planet sets. Particularly the "snow cacti" - the scrape marks on this one behind Saavik, David and Spock are something I can't ignore.
    Oh, and more Uhura, please (a longer scene with her and Sarek at the end would do).

    TVH - Another great film with very little to complain about. The only thing I'd change would be to keep the Bird-of-Prey's TSFS bridge.

    TFF - Oh, dear. Um... Only one thing? All I can think of without rewriting the whole thing is to have Nichelle Nichols, accomplished singer, actually sing "The Moon's A Window To Heaven" during Uhura's fan dance.

    TUC - Again, I'd change so many things about this pretty terrible film, but there is one big standout: I'd lose the horrendous racism against the Klingons during dinner. That scene was just contemptible - no wonder Nichelle Nichols refused to say certain lines.

    GEN - I'm torn between two things. One, I'd make Harriman competent at the very least (no starship commander should be made to appear like such a boob) - @Bry_Sinclair has written an excellent alternate version of Generations' opening here. And, two, have William Shatner act as Kirk rather than William Shatner. Actually, a competent Harriman wins out as Kirk's transition to William Shatner started long before this installment.

    FC - The thing I'd change in this film is something I should've changed in Generations: much less of Data and the emotion chip that makes him even more of an annoying and insufferable liability.

    INS - See FC.

    NEM - Other than the questionable dune buggy/B4 part and other minor(ish) odds & sods, I rather like Nemesis. So, I'd change its opening weekend to one without so many of those other big, blockbuster-type movies around in the hope that it would perform better at the box office and, therefore, allow for another - better - TNG film :)

    Thank you @Bry_Sinclair (and @Farscape One) :bolian:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  13. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Commander Red Shirt

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    I'd say the Enterprise-A and most of her command staff (certainly Kirk, Scotty, McCoy & likely Spock & Uhura) were a month or two at most away from their 'official' retirement .

    Probably the ship and crew's duties had been reduced to virtually zero and Starfleet just had them riding out the clock like someone in their last day of employment before they leave.
     
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  14. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is actually harder for me than coming with one broad brush sweeping change for the series. Most of the movies are decent enough to watch and I'm not that any changes I could suggest would improve them. I might make several minor tweaks to each movie.

    For TMP I would just like one extra character moment for each of the recurring cast even if in a single scene where they interact with each other away from the Big 3.

    For TWOK it's a toss up between tweaking Spock's dialogue so his deception isn't so obvious a two year old could see through it or making Khan's gambit when he first meets the Enterprise a bit more opaque so Kirk looks less incompetent.

    For STIII I would like to have seen Uhura's key role from the novelisation on screen and maybe even give Rand a little bit of a role either distracting a security guard like in Mirror Mirror or facilitating access to the ship somehow. An alternative would have been to have some other TOS cast members at Kirk's when Sarek arrives.

    STIV give Chapel some proper dialogue, I've missed her!

    STV include Saavik so we get to see her Romulan heritage explored. An alternative would be to have God locked away on Nimbus III and do an Indiana Jones exploration episode on the planet itself.

    STVI Saavik instead of Valeris and tweak the plot so that she isn't a cold blooded killer herself to give her a chance at redemption without being mind-raped.

    The TNG movies are tricky. Less Picard and more everybody else generally. Or maybe don't retcon and trivialise Data's journey between movies.
     
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  15. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Regarding copying my thread title, I really don't mind at all. What's that phrase... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So I thank you. :)

    For my thoughts on this, I'm going a somewhat different route than most. I'm not going to do change for each movie. I'm going to do a single change with each generation. One for the Kirk crew movies, and one for the Picard crew movies.

    TMP - ST:VI... This can be applied to EVERY film. More scenes with Sulu, Chekov, Scotty, and Uhura interacting with each other and with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. We really could have gotten at least a few more minutes of this for each movie. It would have given them not only more to do, but really SHOW the audience that they were more than just colleagues.

    GENERATIONS - NEMESIS... Be more than just the 'Picard and Data' quadrilogy. I love both characters, ESPECIALLY Data. But it would not have hurt the movies to have some more meaty things to do for Riker, Crusher, Troi, and La Forge. Worf didn't need to be there given his DS9 assignment, mainly during INSURRECTION and the big question of why he was in a Starfleet uniform for NEMESIS, but if he must be there, give him more to do. Even little things would go far with him... one of my ONLY compliments about NEMESIS was when Worf... WORF said, on his own, "The Romulans fought with honor." Just that line and the delivery gave Worf a BIG growth moment, particularly when you have followed his history and story for all those years.


    I don't mind that these need to be a bit action oriented... they are movies in a theater, after all. That will appeal to new people. But the ones who go in who are already fans watch these movies because of the characters they've seen for years. Just a few more minutes with each of them peppered in every movie would have been glorious. THAT is ultimately why I'll always prefer the shows to the movies.
     
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  16. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is really hard, since I am an unashamed huge fan of the movie franchise. But, I'll give it a whack:

    TMP: Yeah...like I said....this is hard. Ummmmm....maybe not have the "dirty faceplate" thing. Not because I personally find it objectionable, but just so I don't have to listen to people complain any longer.

    TWOK: Maybe some flashbacks all during Khan's narrative showing scenes from Space Seed, as well as new material showing life on a deteriorating CA5, etc...a lot like the Shinzon flashbacks in Nemesis.

    TSFS: This movie may have been a little TOO tightly edited. I might add a little more to the planetside investigation. Also, I think a slightly expanded battle above Genesis would be cool

    TVH: while I'm not a huge fan of this one, it kind of falls into "it is what it is.." Maybe since I like starships, more views of the inside of the new Enterprise would be cool.

    TFF: I love TFF. Far more than most. But a lot of it is a biased recognition that there was a GRET Star Trek movie that got lost in there somewhere. I think I'd want an expansion on Sybok's backstory with his obsession, and how the creature manipulated him through the decades..it would give more information about Sybok's (a great character) and the creature (which was sorely lacking)

    TUC: Clean up the slop. This movie was so unfortunately rushed, that not much of the plot holds up under any level of scrutiny. I think spending more time really making the conspiracy and the murder investigation more crisp would have been worth it.

    GEN: Expand upon and clean up the Nexus concept in favor of the foolish subplot about Data's emotion chip.

    FC: A better battle against the Borg cube

    INS: This is the only movie I flat-out don't like. Eliminate about 70% of the humor in favor of expanding upon uncovering the conspiracy plot in a more compelling and dramatic way.

    NEM: Put the character moments back in and expand on the intrigue associated with what is happening on Romulus
     
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  17. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I love TMP with all my heart, but it's borderline criminal how much budget was wasted on this film. The alien makeup and costumes are a huge example.
     
  18. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I always find these exercises fun.

    TMP -
    Tough to limit myself to just one thing I'd like to fix. Going to the area that needs the most help, I'd like the script to have an extensive rewrite before shooting. The main things I'd keep in mind for the new draft would be to improve the pace, give the characters more of the warmth & humor that they had in TOS, and add a little more activity & action for the crew (Spending most of the last 2/3rds of the movie on the bridge is, quite frankly, a drag. Get them off the damn ship, already! Have V'ger threaten a planet, have them take out a shuttlecraft to investigate V'Ger, have them do SOMETHING so that the crew is active rather than reactive.)

    TWOK - Hmm. This is a toughie, as I can't think of much I'd like to change. Maybe keep in a line of dialogue about Saavik being half Vulcan/half Romulan, as that would preserve more of her uniqueness in subsequent films. She has more volatile emotions than Spock, but she's struggling to integrate them rather than repress them. That gives her a different note to play in the ensemble & gives us some setup for the future.

    TSFS - I agree with @Bry_Sinclair: Bring back Kirstie Alley as Saavik and pay her what she was worth. If that means paying her more than DeForest Kelley, so be it. As long as Alley returning as Saavik doesn't affect her joining Cheers in 1987, I consider it a net positive.

    TVH - Not my favorite of the movies, but I can't think of too much I'd change. I'd probably replace the music, as Leonard Roseman's score is my least favorite of the movie series.

    TFF -
    Again, the problem is not the director (Shatner did a nice job and had some great looking shots), but with the story and the subpar effects. But if I'm limiting myself to just one change, I'd make it so that Sybok is not Spock's brother. He's never referred to again in any subsequent Trek production AFAIK (I haven't finished S2 of DSC yet, so no spoilers, please) and he really screws up Spock's backstory, IMO. I'd reconceive the character somewhat to make him a more fanatical Vulcan mystic who hears voices and may not be entirely sane. I think that'd give the movie a little more conflict and bite.

    TUC - I'd like to put in Kirstie Alley as Saavik again. I liked Kim Cattrall as Valeris, but I think Saavik betraying Spock and the rest of the crew would be much more provocative and startling, and it would give definite closure to her character. (It would also let the "...A lie?" refrain throughout the film make much more sense, as it was a callback to a Saavik/Spock exchange in TWOK.) And since Alley would be returning to the role instead of a brand new actress being cast, she could have a previously-worn uniform in the proper colors. Win/win. :)

    GEN - My gut feeling is "Do a true crossover film with everyone from both crews", but that probably isn't realistic. So, sticking with the basic story that they had, I'd ask for a rewrite where the Nexus was properly clarified. What can it do, and what can it not? Does it show you highlights from your life, like Kirk, or does it show you a life you never had, like Picard? What exactly did Soran see in there that made him spend 78 years trying to return to it? Does everyone leave an echo in there, or was that just Guinan? Was the Kirk that Picard encountered in the Nexus an echo, too? Can you leave the Nexus at any point in time, or are there limits? Hopefully answering these questions would also result in giving Kirk a more heroic and satisfying death.

    FC - I'd probably have the two plotlines converge earlier, so that the movie wasn't just in the same A storyline/B storyline formula of the typical TNG episode. As it is, we've got a suspense/horror film aboard the Enterprise-E and a more humorous romp on Earth with Zephram Cochrane, and they don't quite mesh.

    INS - I don't think I've watched this movie since it was released, so it's tough for me to say what I'd change. Give it a rewrite so that it wasn't so damn bland and forgettable, I guess.

    NEM - I'd probably change the director, since most of the problems on this one seemed to stem from Stuart Baird. This would hopefully result in Tom Hardy not being cast as Shinzon (I like Hardy as an actor, but he just doesn't look enough like Patrick Stewart for me to buy him as Picard's clone). If Frakes wanted the job again, give him the director's chair.
     
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  19. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Writer and occasional starship commander Premium Member

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    @Mark 2000 is actually fixing the one major thing I'd change about TMP... making Kirk more active in the climax of the movie and taking the film back from Decker.

    [​IMG]

    You can read his The Motion Picture Redux here.

    Same thing in TWOK. I'd make Kirk more active in getting the mains online than just sitting in his chair waiting for the end. I've said this many times before, and I've been blasted for it, but Kirk should've ordered Spock into the chamber after realizing he's the only one that can withstand the radiation for a prolonged length at time. Thus, Kirk learns winning a "no-win" situations can't be cheated, can't be circumvented and that they always come at a great loss.
     
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  20. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just read it. "Let's find out" is where it stops right now. I know it's ongoing, so it'll continue. But there's one problem that needs to be worked around: if Kirk merges with V'Ger... then there's no Kirk for the rest of the film series.

    Putting that aside, @Mark 2000 even though we disagree about recent Star Trek, I have to say I think you're a good artist and I just looked at some of your other stuff too. I like it.