The Omega Glory - Info about the Enterprise?

[Marsden]

I thought that's was the real reason they went back in time to 1969, Scotty needed an extra 300 years to age his Scotch, the black star was just a cover story.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I believe they have the escape pods for that.

Unfortunately, the 2266 version of the Constitution-class ships didn't appear to have them.

It's the Titanic story all over again!!!

 

[johnnybear]

Would there be enough room to bring it into the hangar deck if all four are onboard and just where were they anyway? Plus in an emergency could four shuttlecraft contain the entire crew of a Starship? I doubt it! At a push each could take maybe ten to twelve people so that's about 48 survivors out of 430 crewmen and women! Doesn't sound good does it!
JB

Well, shuttles are for duty first, not escape vehicles unless every other form was busy and/or rendered inoperable (ex. the transporters). That said, it explains why shuttles were designed only able to hold a small number of personnel at a time.

That's the reason Decker--racing against time--beamed his doomed crew down to the planet, instead of launching shuttles.

If he had of done he might have saved some of his crew!
JB

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Would there be enough room to bring it into the hangar deck if all four are onboard and just where were they anyway? Plus in an emergency could four shuttlecraft contain the entire crew of a Starship? I doubt it! At a push each could take maybe ten to twelve people so that's about 48 survivors out of 430 crewmen and women! Doesn't sound good does it!
JB

Well, shuttles are for duty first, not escape vehicles unless every other form was busy and/or rendered inoperable (ex. the transporters). That said, it explains why shuttles were designed only able to hold a small number of personnel at a time.

That's the reason Decker--racing against time--beamed his doomed crew down to the planet, instead of launching shuttles.

If he had of done he might have saved some of his crew!
JB

He didn't have time to break out the straws.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

There might be little differences here and there, but in general, I think they are both built on the same plans. Now, the Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine" – that's another question. But with the exception of the Constellation...

Why except the Constellation? What's different about it?

Well, I don't want to derail the thread or get too far off topic. But in short, the model used for the Constellation was the 18 inch AMT kit, suitably burned and broken and with the decals rearranged. The model kit's proportions are quite different from those of the 11 foot model which represented all the other Connies. The kit decals was rearranged to 1017, a substantially lower value than 1701, or any of her sisters. Also, watch Kirk as they discover Decker. They are looking for Auxiliary Control and that's where Decker is, yet Kirk almost walks past it, only stopping when he notices the person inside, evidently about to pass the room, suggesting he wasn't quite sure where the room should be, which he should have known if the ship was the same class with the same arrangement.

There are two schools of thought on this:

1) The Constellation was exactly the same as the Enterprise, the registry numbers don't actually work in a way where the weird sequence is significant, and the model was what was available and just squint.

2) The differences in the model and the logic of the registry number and Kirk's unfamiliarity with the internal arrangement indicate it was an older class of vessel.

Personally, I go for option 2. I like to imagine that the 1017 was a much older ship that underwent a major rebuild to bring it up to Constitution specs, much as 1701 later underwent a major refit in TMP.

--Alex

I just figured the differences between the Constellation and the Enterprise were because the Constellation was commanded by a flag officer so it had extra stuff for fleet/taskforce command added to the design to make the interior different while the Enterprise was just a bog standard version of the class that would not have those things.

 

[Albertese]

^^^
Well, like I said, there are certainly more than one way to interpret it.

--Alex

 

[johnnybear]

Why except the Constellation? What's different about it?

Well, I don't want to derail the thread or get too far off topic. But in short, the model used for the Constellation was the 18 inch AMT kit, suitably burned and broken and with the decals rearranged. The model kit's proportions are quite different from those of the 11 foot model which represented all the other Connies. The kit decals was rearranged to 1017, a substantially lower value than 1701, or any of her sisters. Also, watch Kirk as they discover Decker. They are looking for Auxiliary Control and that's where Decker is, yet Kirk almost walks past it, only stopping when he notices the person inside, evidently about to pass the room, suggesting he wasn't quite sure where the room should be, which he should have known if the ship was the same class with the same arrangement.

There are two schools of thought on this:

1) The Constellation was exactly the same as the Enterprise, the registry numbers don't actually work in a way where the weird sequence is significant, and the model was what was available and just squint.

2) The differences in the model and the logic of the registry number and Kirk's unfamiliarity with the internal arrangement indicate it was an older class of vessel.

Personally, I go for option 2. I like to imagine that the 1017 was a much older ship that underwent a major rebuild to bring it up to Constitution specs, much as 1701 later underwent a major refit in TMP.

--Alex

I just figured the differences between the Constellation and the Enterprise were because the Constellation was commanded by a flag officer so it had extra stuff for fleet/taskforce command added to the design to make the interior different while the Enterprise was just a bog standard version of the class that would not have those things.

Yet The Enterprise was supposed to be the flag ship of the fleet?
JB

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yet The Enterprise was supposed to be the flag ship of the fleet?

When did they say that in TOS? I don't ever recall it.

 

[Maurice]

The Enterprise was not the flagship. It was just one of a dozen top of the line ships. The ship only became "special" in the movies.

 

[Timo]

...And even there was never considered "the flagship", although in two of the movies she had a flag officer aboard, sometimes even in command of the ship.

The ship wasn't "special" by Starfleet status as such. She just happened to be the only heavy unit in interception range in ST:TMP, and was the ship in the middle of the action in ST2-3. A different ship was only glimpsed in ST4, and was not considered particularly important (indeed, she seemed expendable) in ST5.

That different ship saw action again in ST6 because Starfleet wanted to send "Nixon to China", and if they dispatched the infamous Kirk to intimidate the Klingons, they also had to send him in the infamous Enterprise.

The first time we hear of an Enterprise really being considered "special" by Starfleet rather than just by her own crew is when the E-D is credited as the "Federation Flagship", whatever that means. And then there's the credit Picard (from another timeline) gives to the E-C, a ship that isn't his own - apparently, it's up to E-C to make the name Enterprise immortal, the E-nil and E-A and E-B having failed in that task...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Albertese]

^^^
Interesting point about the E-C. But, yeah, I think the D was the first ship to ever referred to as the "flagship". And I get the impression that even that is an important distinction on occasional extra-diplomatic missions, as otherwise it seems strange to me that the "flagship" would be assigned to so many mundane patrols and work-a-day exploratory missions. I dunno... Seems like the term "flagship" just doesn't really mean much.

--Alex

 

[johnnybear]

I think the missions that The original Enterprise undertook in it's time would make it more famous than any other vessel to follow it! (I didn't count The Enterprise NX as I don't accept that new time line that it's in) Picky ain't I!
JB

 

[Warped9]

I think the missions that The original Enterprise undertook in it's time would make it more famous than any other vessel to follow it! (I didn't count The Enterprise NX as I don't accept that new time line that it's in) Picky ain't I!
JB

You're not alone.

 

[Mytran]

I think the missions that The original Enterprise undertook in it's time would make it more famous than any other vessel to follow it!

That would depend on whether the Enterprise's missions were particularly remarkable though - other ships may have had just as exciting adventures!

 

[Timo]

Quite so. Kirk saved the Federation only about half a dozen times, the Earth twice or thrice, and the entire universe just once. Other COs might perform missions longer than five years and score something like 12, 7 and 3 on the above on the average., respectively...

And I get the impression that even that is an important distinction on occasional extra-diplomatic missions, as otherwise it seems strange to me that the "flagship" would be assigned to so many mundane patrols and work-a-day exploratory missions.

"We're the Federation Flagship again this week, so mind your Ps and Qs, especially the Qs!" is an idea consistent with what we see of the missions and what Picard himself says - but somewhat at odds with ST:GEN where the Klingon sisters refer to the vessel as the Federation Flagship in a confrontation where she plays no such role specifically.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Seems like the term "flagship" just doesn't really mean much.

TOS was written (or re-written) and produced when Roddenberry's military service was still relatively fresh in his mind, and his mind was sharp. TNG was much more the product of "aging hippie" Roddenberry and a bunch of English majors who didn't know what a flagship was, but thought it was a cool word. And TNG is when "flagship" came in, non-sensically, for the Enterprise.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Seems like the term "flagship" just doesn't really mean much.

TOS was written (or re-written) and produced when Roddenberry's military service was still relatively fresh in his mind, and his mind was sharp. TNG was much more the product of "aging hippie" Roddenberry and a bunch of English majors who didn't know what a flagship was, but thought it was a cool word. And TNG is when "flagship" came in, non-sensically, for the Enterprise.

Roddenberry was in the Army Air Corps/Force. Not sure if his knowledge of Naval parlance was any better than an English Majors.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Roddenberry was in the Army Air Corps/Force. Not sure if his knowledge of Naval parlance was any better than an English Majors.

I thought about that, but I still think he would know what flag officers are, and that one of them has to reside on a ship for it to be "the flagship."

On TNG, flagship was strictly a figure of speech. I vaguely recall one interview, whether it was with Rick Berman or somebody close to him, in which a TNG producer said that Star Fleet officers are not military personnel, and are more like airline pilots.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Roddenberry was in the Army Air Corps/Force. Not sure if his knowledge of Naval parlance was any better than an English Majors.

I thought about that, but I still think he would know what flag officers are, and that one of them has to reside on a ship for it to be "the flagship."

On TNG, flagship was strictly a figure of speech. I vaguely recall one interview, whether it was with Rick Berman or somebody close to him, in which a TNG producer said that Star Fleet officers are not military personnel, and are more like airline pilots.

I think that was Gene, who was also an airline pilot.

Though one of the episodes that mention the Enterprise as the Flagship was written by a guy who worked on The Love Boat. The Pacific Princess was the cruise line flagship.

 

[Ithekro]

The "flagship" in these terms would be the ship that best represents the United Federation of Planets. The symbolic flag of the interstellar country/alliance. The ship Starfleet puts forward when it needs to impress other planets, or impress Federation worlds. Their model starship with a model captain, and a record for getting things done the Federation way.

Captain Kirk's ship is not this. Eventually it because a Hero ship of the Federation with a legendary captain and crew, but they never are the best representation of the United Federation of Planets. Not with they number of ways they bend the rules and just do stuff.