Not buying it. Why would the Trek fandom say ENT was ripping off a show that they claimed ripped off Trek in the first place? Sense, it makes none of.
The Official: What do Niners Feel About Enterprise
- Thread starter Photon
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Because they hated ENT, wanted to boycott it and would've said anything to take a swipe at the show and its' ideas.
Plus, by 2001 sci-fi fandom had stopped thinking of B5 as a TOS knock-off and had long since been worshiping it. So for ENT to do a similar story would've been blasphemy by then. Nevermind DS9 got away with it just fine.
Plus, by 2001 sci-fi fandom had stopped thinking of B5 as a TOS knock-off and had long since been worshiping it. So for ENT to do a similar story would've been blasphemy by then. Nevermind DS9 got away with it just fine.
Trek basically set the stage for most sci-fi space opera, so anything that's remotely similar tended to get compared to it (Even when the Trekking in the Stars was instead Questing in the Sea.
). Really, folks were saying B5 ripped off a lot of things: Star Trek, Star Wars, Lord Of The Rings, X-Files, yada yada... Might as well say the show was also ripping off Greek Tragedy or the tale of Crog The Caveman's Epic Mammoth Hunt.Anyone who wants to find fault in a show obviously will. So, obviously, if someone wants to say ENT was ripping off B5, they'd find the comparison to justify their claim, however tenuous it is or how common such a tale-telling trope is ("Oh, that Birth Of The Federation thing is just ripping off the United Nations.").
Which is why it's such a silly argument to make in the first place. It's deduction through ropey logic that they teach at Conspiracy Theories 101. And it's why anyone who would make such a claim would be dismissed out of hand. So why make an argument that has no solid foundation in the first place? Ah right, because they were looking to find fault in the first place. It's conclusion, then evidence. No one buys that.
And it's why I don't buy the assumption that anyone would say anything ENT did (or would do) was ripping off B5. Well, unless they're just being dicks, in which case who cares what they think.
Trek basically set the stage for most sci-fi space opera, so anything that's remotely similar tended to get compared to it (Even when the Trekking in the Stars was instead Questing in the Sea.
Actually this isn't really the case.
A lot of people seem to completely ignore print/radio when saying something is the 'first' of something in regards to story on television. Being someone who listens to a fair bit of 40-60's radio I feel I should correct the idea Trek was setting a stage when there was science fiction shows of great quality which preceded it.
Before Trek we had, Space Patrol, Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon and many others.
And if you wanted something a little more adult you could get Journey Into Space for serial or the anthology series X Minus One, Dimension X.
And in Print you had a lot of the science fiction magazines which were all in their prime before the 1960's.
Trek didn't really set the stage for anything, it's just the largest example and that's why it'll inevitably draw a comparison to any other space show.
Plus anyway we'd say Trek ripped off Wagon Train & Voyage Of The Scarlett Queen.
Well, there you go. Every story has been told and retold to fit the times or a particular writer's muse. The trick is to tell the old story in a new way ...or at least in a compelling or entertaining way.Actually this isn't really the case.
A lot of people seem to completely ignore print/radio when saying something is the 'first' of something in regards to story on television. Being someone who listens to a fair bit of 40-60's radio I feel I should correct the idea Trek was setting a stage when there was science fiction shows of great quality which preceded it.
Before Trek we had, Space Patrol, Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon and many others.
And if you wanted something a little more adult you could get Journey Into Space for serial or the anthology series X Minus One, Dimension X.
And in Print you had a lot of the science fiction magazines which were all in their prime before the 1960's.
Trek didn't really set the stage for anything, it's just the largest example and that's why it'll inevitably draw a comparison to any other space show.
Plus anyway we'd say Trek ripped off Wagon Train & Voyage Of The Scarlett Queen.
If people want to say Birth Of The Federation is a ripoff of Interstellar Alliance, I'm sure someone could point to how Interstellar Alliance was a ripoff of something else. Hence, the argument is pointlessly inexhaustible, and utterly useless.
Disillusioned
Commander
I actually kind of liked B5. Except its fifth season, that was boring.
X Minus One is great. I'm a fan of that radio show, it can be listened to online these days. True, it's adaptions of books you may be better off reading, but they're good adaptions! Really!
I think it could be fairly said that Star Trek did set a standard for televised space opera. Sure, there were shows prior to it, and there were good ones, but Star Trek... well, that was something else. And I say that trying to distance myself from sheer fanboyism. The fact the series actually had literary sci-fi writers write a couple of episodes, and it tried to do serious character drama as well, is what I'm trying to allude to.
An episode like "Amok Time" or "The City on the Edge of Forever" is exactly the sort of complicated premise (and ethical conunudrum in the latter) that would not be seen on previous space opera TV.
Also, Mr. Spock.
C'mon! Look at my signature, the words of wisdom from the greatest science fiction writer ever. Does that prove nothing?
...yes, but be quiet.
If you give Niners and/or Fivers the sort of show they want to watch, they'd like it. They might become devout ENT S4-7 fans who bash the first three seasons aggressively or whatever. I mean I've seen even you say that Niners are nuBSG fans, so it'd be fair to conclude that like sticks to like? Give 'em more of their political space opera and they'd lap it up, no?
I think it could be fairly said that Star Trek did set a standard for televised space opera. Sure, there were shows prior to it, and there were good ones, but Star Trek... well, that was something else. And I say that trying to distance myself from sheer fanboyism. The fact the series actually had literary sci-fi writers write a couple of episodes, and it tried to do serious character drama as well, is what I'm trying to allude to.
An episode like "Amok Time" or "The City on the Edge of Forever" is exactly the sort of complicated premise (and ethical conunudrum in the latter) that would not be seen on previous space opera TV.
Also, Mr. Spock.
C'mon! Look at my signature, the words of wisdom from the greatest science fiction writer ever. Does that prove nothing?...yes, but be quiet.
Double standards I'm guessing, and no it doesn't.
If you give Niners and/or Fivers the sort of show they want to watch, they'd like it. They might become devout ENT S4-7 fans who bash the first three seasons aggressively or whatever. I mean I've seen even you say that Niners are nuBSG fans, so it'd be fair to conclude that like sticks to like? Give 'em more of their political space opera and they'd lap it up, no?
Most Niners jumped to the NuBSG bandwagon and were saying things like "NuBSG is the kind of thing that they would've made DS9 into if they continued the series which means AWESOME" (which I'm frankly digusted by, but that's me).
Anyways, they bash the stuff in ENT that didn't contradict canon and actually added to the Trekverse in a positive and intelligent manner (The Vulcan-Andor stuff, for example) which is all the proof I need that they would never accept anything the show did, ESPECIALLY if they did the totally serialized first episode to last "Birth of the Federation" thing. They just pull out all the stops and start bashing it 10 minutes into the premiere with the B5 comparisons.
Anyways, they bash the stuff in ENT that didn't contradict canon and actually added to the Trekverse in a positive and intelligent manner (The Vulcan-Andor stuff, for example) which is all the proof I need that they would never accept anything the show did, ESPECIALLY if they did the totally serialized first episode to last "Birth of the Federation" thing. They just pull out all the stops and start bashing it 10 minutes into the premiere with the B5 comparisons.
ENT's first two seasons were lame, meandering pointless crap. The third season was a lame attempt to be as good as DS9, only the producers and writers involved didn't have the talent to pull it off. The fourth season was alright, because it finally started improving and telling era appropriate, interesting stories.
I don't know what all this stupid bullshit about ENT being bashed because of B5 or something is about, except that it sounds like ENT fanboy hand wringing.
I don't know what all this stupid bullshit about ENT being bashed because of B5 or something is about, except that it sounds like ENT fanboy hand wringing.
I'm saying that if they had done what so many of the detractors say, make the entire series the birth of the Federation (one giant arc from first episode of the first season to the series finale) all that would've happened was a giant bashfest where ENT has to take nothing but criticism for being a B5 knock-off (since the story of the Interstellar Alliance is similar to BoF) no matter how well-written or acted it was.
Ent was No-Win, bottom line. They were screwed no matter WHAT they did.
ENT Season 4 is one of my favourite Star Trek seasons. The triple episode style worked incredibly well in my opinion and made it almost feel like you had a few movies in the series as well as a great bottle episode.
But since there's only really 12 stories in the entire season I do understand that if someone didn't like a few of them it's really going to paint the season in a negative light.
I felt the Xindi arc of the previous season was a nice idea but it dragged in a few places and I thought it felt fairly restricting in terms of other story. But ENT Season 4 gained the positives of an arc but still maintaining a lot of different types of story.
But since there's only really 12 stories in the entire season I do understand that if someone didn't like a few of them it's really going to paint the season in a negative light.
I felt the Xindi arc of the previous season was a nice idea but it dragged in a few places and I thought it felt fairly restricting in terms of other story. But ENT Season 4 gained the positives of an arc but still maintaining a lot of different types of story.
This is the same (poor) logic as your "The Niners hate Voyager!!!1
" windmill tilt.There's no reason to believe that theory other than paranoid fantasy, especially considering the horribly unnecessary Niner/Fiver "War."
I'm not even sure it's specifically Niners. Seems more like he's accusing all Trekkers of being Fivers with regards to a potential BoF story-arc.
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