The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[perigee]

Re: STXI...unsure

I do think that some of the most wanted XI to succeed so badly, it might have clouded their judgement.

That sort of went both ways, though. There were some people who desperately wanted this movie to fail because it wasn't what THEIR vision of star trek was about, or it conflicted with THEIR version of canon.

Mehhhh... We're a pretty tough crowd; I don't think the Pros are liking out of desperation. I sat in that seat, back in 79, and even then I don't think any of the Trekkies I knew could muster anything more enthusiastic than "Uh. It was Ok... I guess..." We're not delusional, even if we are protective.

And Antis can dislike it for their own variety of reasons as well; if you want to take away the defense of "Freshman effort," there are some really jagged holes even I'm not fond of. I don't need to rationalize their dislike. Although there probably are many like those cubby described, like I was, initially with TNG.

The difference is, over time TNG proved itself out; DS9, which started pretty crappy, proved itself out. VOY and ENT? Well.. there are those who appreciate 'em, but I'm still not sold.

Any group who is really into something is likely to splinter; which is why Christianity has Presbyterians, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists... All have their own reasons for being where they are. The difference is, the Presbys don't tend to run into St. Patricks and rip up pictures of the Pope. Fans have a tendency to do that.

And hey - it's kinda fun to snowball fight.

Eventually the dust will settle, and we'll be all one big happy starfleet again, acknowledging each other's idiot children even if we don't adore them ourselves. That's how we get to 2034, when my kid takes over as Perijunior.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: STXI...unsure

Could be those who were dead set against XI in the first place had their judgment clouded too.

What about those of us who had no preconceptions going in good or bad, who read no spoilers, who didn't dissect the movie for the better part of two years, who didn't watch one trailer, who didn't read one interview about the film, who avoided reading any early reviews, who didn't care if they rebooted the film or not like myself?

I didn't know what to expect and was just there for the ride.

I don't care about scientific liberties the writers might have taken. I have never minded the use of time travel like so many fans seem to anymore. I didn't care that they updated the designs. I didn't care that the film was devoid of social commentary. I didn't give a sh*t that red matter was a macguffin. I could care less if Delta Vega should be near Vulcan or on the edge of the known galaxy. I could care less if Vulcan's sky is red, blue or green.

What I do care about when it comes to entertainment, even mindless action flicks, is solid writing which was hit or miss.

I've never been one to put Star Trek in a box and say it is this or it is only that. I didn't mind that it was episodic or serialized. I didn't mind when it was high-minded & politically correct on TNG and I didn't believe a war or Section 31 were blasphemous to Gene's vision on DS9. I enjoyed Trek just as much when it was cerebral as when it was mindless action. By the same token, I didn't place TOS on a pedestal and feel outrage that Abrams decided to mix it up a bit.

More importantly than being an Oscar-winning movie like all preceding Trek movies were is that it lays the groundwork of adventures to come.

That's a big accomplishment given the recent past.

I don't understand this notion that certain fans accept clumsy set-up because according to them it is paving the road to something better. That just isn't the case.

When done properly and is well-written, set-up can be elegant but the writer(s) must be in charge and not let the story overwhelm them.

On its own, XI has a lot of issues. How anyone can call it excellent or the best Trek film ever or the best film of all time is beyond me.

 

[Borgminister]

Re: STXI...unsure

On its own, XI has a lot of issues.

Something it shares in common with preceding ST movies.

How anyone can call it excellent or the best Trek film ever or the best film of all time is beyond me.

To each their own--for what it had to accomplish, I'd call it excellent.

Best Trek film ever? Well, that time will tell, but I'd put it in the top echelon.

All time? Come on. Everyone knows that's Nemesis.

 

[T'Bonz]

The difference is, the Presbys don't tend to run into St. Patricks and rip up pictures of the Pope. Fans have a tendency to do that.

In America perhaps. In N. Ireland, they take their religion a bit too seriously (and ditto for the Catholics.)

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: STXI...unsure

On its own, XI has a lot of issues.

Something it shares in common with preceding ST movies.

And that makes it alright because the other films were mediocre?

I have never felt the film franchise was the strongest for Trek. I think Trek works much better as a weekly tv series. The last film I walked out of the theatre wholly satisfied with was TUC. And TWoK, TVH and FC are the only other ones I consider worthwhile. The rest I could take or leave.

How anyone can call it excellent or the best Trek film ever or the best film of all time is beyond me.

To each their own--for what it had to accomplish, I'd call it excellent.

Well, I consider very few things "excellent". In fact, I feel that term is overused on the internet. Almost every thread you go into that is grading something is litterd with "A+++++" or "excellent". To me it diminishes stuff that really knocks it out of the park. Even films or episodes I enjoy aren't excellent. Most episodes of Trek that I would describe as excellent are very, very few with the bulk being good. There are just too many things in XI that prevents it from being a four star film. I'd only give it 2.5 stars.

 

[Praetor]

Re: STXI...unsure

I have never felt the film franchise was the strongest for Trek. I think Trek works much better as a weekly tv series. The last film I walked out of the theatre wholly satisfied with was TUC. And TWoK, TVH and FC are the only other ones I consider worthwhile. The rest I could take or leave.

I more or less agree, although I did enjoy the new film. I generally would rate the films overall as not quite as good as the best series Trek. (And, personally, I like TMP more than TVH.) Series Trek has the benefit of using multiple episodes to build upon (even if it often hasn't.)

Well, I consider very few things "excellent". In fact, I feel that term is overused on the internet. Almost every thread you go into that is grading something is litterd with "A+++++" or "excellent". To me it diminishes stuff that really knocks it out of the park. Even films or episodes I enjoy aren't excellent. Most episodes of Trek that I would describe as excellent are very, very few with the bulk being good. There are just too many things in XI that prevents it from being a four star film. I'd only give it 2.5 stars.

I definitely understand what you're saying here. I myself couldn't quite vote "excellent" for it myself. I wanted to, but... I just couldn't. It's right up there with TWOK/TUC/FC for me (and don't ask me to put those in a specific order) but... eh. I just couldn't vote it "excellent." Close enough to annoy me that it wasn't, shall we say.

 

[pookha]

Re: STXI...unsure

just watched the film, couldnt wait for it to end.

The comedy wasnt funny, the character relationships were silly (spock & uhura? nah), the whole alternate timeline idea was crap.

i just didnt like it. maybe i should see it again to make sure.

What about small continuity mistakes? arrowhead design on the crew uniforms of the uss kelvin....ufp logo as it is in tng etc....

come on writers/designers....do some research and dont give me the alternate timeline excuse

Don't waste your money - if it's not your bag, it's not your bag, no crime, no foul. Don't bother with it and skip the sequel. The fact that it seems valid for most doesn't mean it Has to be valid for all - I've seen people who like Enterprise and Voyager on here, and I barely wasted an hour or two so far on both of 'em. You have your good things, and I have mine.

No need - and no sense - to feel pressured into liking it.

Good points all, but I think most that visit here really want ST to flourish and prosper. Some, actually most, think XI was a good vechicle, others not. I do think that some of the most wanted XI to succeed so badly, it might have clouded their judgement.

sorry i am not that stupid delusional

really there have been movies i really looked forward to and it pissed.
me off even more when they turned into crap.

by the way..
go and check out charlie x.
you might find a certain song interesting.


and as it was pointed out in another thread the delta was common place among starfleet crews until second season tos.
only the starbase crews then had another insigna.

considering thre delta was the original insigna of united earth space probe agency i could see why the kelvin crew might have had it.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Re: STXI...unsure

Saw it for the 3rd time tonight. Had a blast once again.

Some things struck me...

the humor works well, especially the Kirk medical-symptoms thing which sounded way too slapsticky when I first read about it. I'm not sure why it works so well though since its the sort of thing that feels very "un-Trek" when described.

When Spock loses his mind and attacks Kirk is a REALLY strong moment. They have this real subtle musical tone in the background of the fight which adds weight and seriousness to it. Well done to all involved.

While most of the film imo is better and holds up on multiple viewings... the entire ice planet sequence sort of falls apart. The whole little bit (thankfully goes by quick) is filled with tons of hard-to-swallow contrivances. I can spin a few reasons why Spock would jettison Kirk in the first place, but it's really rationalizing. It actually makes no sense for him to jettison Kirk. and on the entire planet Kirk lands where Spock is? the exposition mind-meld was a little painful, and we DESPERATELY needed a Spock/Nero scene to give their backstory a little weight.

Scotty is just fantastic.

Uhura also has really good line delivery. Her thinly disguised scorn at Kirk is well done and funny, like during the Kobiyashi Maru.

On the REd Matter ship, when Spock is quoting the chances of success, Pine has a vintage Kirk moment when he says "Spock! it'll work!" just the way he says Spock. Then when he refers to "Bones! Buckle up" at the very end, another great Shat moment.

During the Kelvin attack, when the sound FX dies down and music swells, during the big heroic moment, it's a total LOST moment, just the music swell, emotion building moment reminds me of one of those music-swelling climactic moments on LOST. Just came to mind because of JJ and Damon connections.

The first shot does a GREAT job of making starships cool again. The buzz, hive of chatter, beacon sounds, it really feels fresh.

Overall, a great fun film. Can't wait to own it on DVD!!!!!!

 

[Jeri]

We saw it for the 9th time tonight; it was the first time not in IMAX, though. People were laughing and having a good time in the audience. They are still having 10 shows a day in two theaters at our multiplex.

I am looking forward to the DVD, too. It will save a lot on ticket prices.

 

[Amaris]

I saw it for the third time today (not the third time in one day, but the third time overall). I love it every time I see it, and I think I'm going to feel sad when it leaves the big screen.


J.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I saw it for the third time today (not the third time in one day, but the third time overall). I love it every time I see it, and I think I'm going to feel sad when it leaves the big screen.


J.

Not me. I'm sitting here rubbing my hands waiting for the DVD release.

(after having seen it for the third time today myself. Seriously, this movie gets better every time I watch it).

 

[StolenThunder]

I had a busy few weeks so I didn't get around to seeing it until yesterday.

I found it really, really hard to separate from the Star Trek that I'm used to which certainly affected my viewing experience to some extent. For that reason I think I'll go see it again soon, plus there were a few quick visual images and scenes to which I wanted to pay more attention.

Briefly though..

Probably the highlights were the crew casting, some of the visuals, and the humour. That's not to say I think Chris Pine made an amazing Shatner Kirk or Urban made an amazing Kelly Bones, but that they worked really well in this movie. Some of the effects (when 'the camera' wasn't shaking too much) were really nice - the Enterprise's escape from the black hole for example.

Negatives? Nero was a duff bad guy, the plot was a little simple, and I didn't like the music.

All in all I gave the film an average. It was enertaining but had its flaws. I do need to see it again to see if I feel differently though, plus it's on at my local IMAX.

 

[Amaris]

I saw it for the third time today (not the third time in one day, but the third time overall). I love it every time I see it, and I think I'm going to feel sad when it leaves the big screen.


J.

Not me. I'm sitting here rubbing my hands waiting for the DVD release.

(after having seen it for the third time today myself. Seriously, this movie gets better every time I watch it).

I'm catching new easter eggs with each viewing. There's a ton of them!

J.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

We saw it for the 9th time tonight; it was the first time not in IMAX, though. People were laughing and having a good time in the audience. They are still having 10 shows a day in two theaters at our multiplex.

I am looking forward to the DVD, too. It will save a lot on ticket prices.

OMG you are so lucky! I keep running into obstacles. I've had my getting to see it a fourth time canceled three times now. It's driving me a bit batty because.. it won't be in the cinema forever and I am NOT done with seeing it there.

My closest cinema does not show it in the evening. That's just.. so very awful..

My cheapest cinema is not showing it at all!

My third option cinema is suddenly a huge production to get to because of a train line shutdown that is going on "indefinitely". Two hours to get home from seeing it is kinda sucky.

The one person I have left that I could go with that I don't have to pay for (ie, not a child) keeps cancelling on me.

At this point I'm looking at going by myself Wednesday night.

This is a very boring post I know, I'm just spewing my frustration here.

 

[Jeri]

teacake, Aw! We could go every night together if you lived here.

My husband came down ill one Friday night, and I had to get a refund on his advance ticket -- but I went by myself anyway that evening.

It was fine! A couple guys in the audience even said "Hi" to me; I think they were frequent fliers themselves and recognized me.

 

[pookha]

All in all I gave the film an average. It was enertaining but had its flaws. I do need to see it again to see if I feel differently though, plus it's on at my local IMAX.

it is very worthwhile seeing it on an imax especially if they have an excellent sound system.

 

[FailedLurker]

Personally I didn't see much difference in the IMAX version. Maybe that Imax theater is just shit.

The only big thing I would look for is to see it in digital projection if you can. The theater I usually go to used to have a digital theater, but they got rid of it several years ago. But last week I found out that the new theater at the mall has a few digital theaters, sow now I have a new regular theater. The difference in detail and clarity is just amazing. All those ADD quick cuts are far easier to follow without the soft picture of film projection.

 

[indranee]

yeah, you have to see it in ACTUAL IMAX. not that shite that passes for IMAX in most theatres. believe me, I saw it in both the AMC IMAX and the Air and Space Museum IMAX and there's a world of difference.

 

[Borgminister]

Hmmm... might see it in digital projection if I have the time this coming week.

Damned translation job...!

 

[drmick]

right. btw, drmick, you should get permission for posting in the TNZ forum and come and join in the Trek XI threads in there. there's a lively debate going on in that forum that you might enjoy.

oh, and John, you're welcome

What's the TNZ forum?