The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[Feofilakt]

I'm curious... does this cover more than the person you're quoting? It just seems to be quite the attempt to be patronising, with some lazy writing causing some major plot holes.

But the performance was spot on.

Reason for favoring Trek over other popcorn action movies stated by Indranee: Trek, and by extension, Abrams Trek has a philosophical core those movies do not possess
My contention: Trek possesses said qualities, but the new movie does not. To attribute previous qualities to a present form which lacks them is a lapse in logic.

that's where you're wrong. just because YOU don't see said quality does not mean I do not either (or that doesn't exist). and as I pointed out, that's exactly your (in the plural, not just YOU) problem: lack of objectivity when it comes to THIS movie.

oh, and, I could've gotten angry at your said patronizing 'tude, dude, but I've been on this board too damned long.

I believe the qualities of the movie are debatable, that was the point of my statement. In time, we should debate the qualities of the movie in earnest, but perhaps not yet. Emotions are running somewhat high at the moment...

 

[indranee]

Trek as a whole brings the philosophical depth, but not the movie. That is what I am referring to. Your love of this movie has an irrational basis in the sense that you are not viewing it in an objective way that fits into the spirit you stated (which was spot-on, btw), but in which the good foundation of Trek excuses the failings of the movie. That is not rational and is a lapse in logic.

Premise: John is a good man. He is good because he is caring and insightful. I like John because he is caring and insightful

John becomes abusive and ignorant

Conclusion: I like John because John is a good man?

See the lapse? The predicate good is contingent upon the predicates caring and insightful. Without the predicates caring and insightful we loose good, and the conclusion must be you DO NOT like John because he is NOT a good man. To attribute characteristics that an object was previously endowed with which it does not currently possess is illogical.

I think the core of the argument is that the predicates of the subject have changed in the perception of an unknown percentage of the community and to like an object for traits previously possessed is a lapse of logic.

of course I am not objective! that's my freakin' point!

I submit, though, that you aren't, either.

Ah, what human is truly objective? We only work with what we are given, and the limitations of perception and thought are many. I do wish I could lose my desire to be as objective as humanly possible, however, it would make some aspects of life somewhat less bitter. But I digress...

You should let the good feeling this movie brings you sit for a while and really investigate it, however. All good movies are only good movies when given some degree of scrutiny.

sure, that last point is definitely a good suggestion.

will do and report back... in ten years and 11 movies.

 

[Rebma Bowmani]

Originally Posted by Blue_Trek
At the end of the movie, you really do want to see the next adventure this particular group will encounter as they go to warp. And that is what makes this movie the best success, you want to see the sequel.

I really don't. Honestly. My enthusiasm for seeing what these writers and director will do next is pretty much nonexistent.

Now that is what separates the fan base, either your living off the past for your fandom, or your looking at the present and the future.

We are the Neo-Trek fans, Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated

Neo Trek fans ... I love it ... and will embrace it!

 

[Agent Richard07]

I saw the movie a second time in IMAX.

- Loved the intro even more. That part of the movie really captured the essense of TOS the way the Kelvin encounterd something strange out in deep space. THAT's pure Star Trek right there.

- I loved how they muted all the sound as the Kelvin was about to hit the Narada and played a musical piece over it. It created a very nice effect.

- I finally heard McCoy call out to Nurse Chapel.

- I found myself warming up to Bruce Greenwood's Captain Pike a lot more. Loved seeing him in that Motion Picture-style admiral's uniform too.

- I got a lot of other minor details I missed the first time.

- I started to entertain the possibility that the Vulcan we know wasn't the one that was destroyed in this movie and that the one we've always seen was actually the new planet they settled on. That idea kinda went away though.

 

[dkehler]

oh, so you're telling me Man Trap did the same thing as Amok Time? that Spock's Brain did the same thing as COTEOF? that ATCSL did the same thing as Balance of Terror?

No, that is not what I'm telling you. Please try again.

no, I think YOU need to try. again.

enlighten me.

please.

how is what I stated different from what you implied in your post, exactly?

Star Trek, this latest movie, has little/none of the things that you listed as reasons why you like Star Trek. Yet you seem to be judging the new movie much higher than you would have otherwise simply because it has the name Star Trek on it.

That does not mean that I think that everything that ever made Star Trek good is in every Star Trek episode or movie.

 

[indranee]

Reason for favoring Trek over other popcorn action movies stated by Indranee: Trek, and by extension, Abrams Trek has a philosophical core those movies do not possess
My contention: Trek possesses said qualities, but the new movie does not. To attribute previous qualities to a present form which lacks them is a lapse in logic.

that's where you're wrong. just because YOU don't see said quality does not mean I do not either (or that doesn't exist). and as I pointed out, that's exactly your (in the plural, not just YOU) problem: lack of objectivity when it comes to THIS movie.

oh, and, I could've gotten angry at your said patronizing 'tude, dude, but I've been on this board too damned long.

I believe the qualities of the movie are debatable, that was the point of my statement. In time, we should debate the qualities of the movie in earnest, but perhaps not yet. Emotions are running somewhat high at the moment...

uhh, the quality of those 79 episodes is rather debatable, as well, taken in concert.

y'know, art is rather subjective. perhaps you will remember that, hmm?

 

[indranee]

No, that is not what I'm telling you. Please try again.

no, I think YOU need to try. again.

enlighten me.

please.

how is what I stated different from what you implied in your post, exactly?

Star Trek, this latest movie, has little/none of the things that you listed as reasons why you like Star Trek. Yet you seem to be judging the new movie much higher than you would have otherwise simply because it has the name Star Trek on it.

That does not mean that I think that everything that ever made Star Trek good is in every Star Trek episode or movie.

exactly. I judge/rate TOS much higher (than it deserves) specifically because of those qualities as well. no reason why nuTrek does not deserve the same from me.

it's no Dr. Zhivago. then again, TOS is no Twilight Zone.

IMO.

 

[Feofilakt]

that's where you're wrong. just because YOU don't see said quality does not mean I do not either (or that doesn't exist). and as I pointed out, that's exactly your (in the plural, not just YOU) problem: lack of objectivity when it comes to THIS movie.

oh, and, I could've gotten angry at your said patronizing 'tude, dude, but I've been on this board too damned long.

I believe the qualities of the movie are debatable, that was the point of my statement. In time, we should debate the qualities of the movie in earnest, but perhaps not yet. Emotions are running somewhat high at the moment...

uhh, the quality of those 79 episodes is rather debatable, as well, taken in concert.

y'know, art is rather subjective. perhaps you will remember that, hmm?

Qualities, not quality. Attributes, not good/bad.

 

[Rebma Bowmani]

I saw the movie a second time in IMAX.

- Loved the intro even more. That part of the movie really captured the essense of TOS the way the Kelvin encounterd something strange out in deep space. THAT's pure Star Trek right there.

- I loved how they muted all the sound as the Kelvin was about to hit the Narada and played a musical piece over it. It created a very nice effect.

- I finally heard McCoy call out to Nurse Chapel.

- I found myself warming up to Bruce Greenwood's Captain Pike a lot more. Loved seeing him in that Motion Picture-style admiral's uniform too.

- I got a lot of other minor details I missed the firs ttime.

I finally was able to see in IMAX today as well. I liked it even more than the first two times!

 

[indranee]

I believe the qualities of the movie are debatable, that was the point of my statement. In time, we should debate the qualities of the movie in earnest, but perhaps not yet. Emotions are running somewhat high at the moment...

uhh, the quality of those 79 episodes is rather debatable, as well, taken in concert.

y'know, art is rather subjective. perhaps you will remember that, hmm?

Qualities, not quality. Attributes, not good/bad.

huh?

 

[Agent Richard07]

By the way, for those of you complaining about this thread being 70+ pages, you can go to your control panel and change your thread settings to display more posts per page. I only see 38 pages as of this posting.

 

[Feofilakt]

uhh, the quality of those 79 episodes is rather debatable, as well, taken in concert.

y'know, art is rather subjective. perhaps you will remember that, hmm?

Qualities, not quality. Attributes, not good/bad.

huh?

We are going in circles.

You stated the qualities (read, attributes) of the original series was a more philosophical nature, yes?

I agreed. Trek has a philosophical tone to it, it possesses that attribute.

How is the attribute "Trek has a philosophical tone" now in debate when taken into concert? I am not following.

 

[Rebma Bowmani]

I believe that some people here have just been waiting to hate the new movie no matter what... I understand it is hard to watch new actors play such iconic characters... hugs to all of you who prefer to live in the past... I understand.

 

[trampledamage]

By the way, for those of you complaining about this thread being 70+ pages, you can go to your control panel and change your thread settings to display more posts per page. I only see 38 pages as of this posting.

Thanks for the tip! But it's not the 72 pages really, it's the 1503 posts contained within

 

[Amaris]

By the way, for those of you complaining about this thread being 70+ pages, you can go to your control panel and change your thread settings to display more posts per page. I only see 38 pages as of this posting.

Thanks for the tip! But it's not the 72 pages really, it's the 1503 posts contained within

Here's an easy tip:

Hit CTRL+F on your keyboard and type in the page search field "abomination" and "amazing". Then just click through and as it highlights each post, don't read it, just keep clicking through. Only stop when it jumps a post or two, because then someone is saying something different. You'll cut your required reading by about 1300.

J.

 

[indranee]

Qualities, not quality. Attributes, not good/bad.

huh?

We are going in circles.

You stated the qualities (read, attributes) of the original series was a more philosophical nature, yes?

I agreed. Trek has a philosophical tone to it, it possesses that attribute.

How is the attribute "Trek has a philosophical tone" now in debate when taken into concert? I am not following.

oh okay. I'm eating, watching MSNBC/TNG/the WH Congressional stuff/talking on the phone and posting. figures I got confused.

yes, Trek is philosophical. yes, we agree.

my point is that you can't hold this movie to the standards of the best Trek eps just as you cannot hold the worst trek eps responsible for bringing down the overall quality of Trek. the fact that Trek brings a certain aura of undeniable depth cannot stipulate that ALL Trek be that way. just as Spock's Brain was part of All-Trek (and a guilty pleasure in itself, at least for me), so is this movie.

the best part of this movie is the fact that it promises newer Trek of quality that we BOTH want. and, hopefully, now that this movie has been deemed a general success, we shall get that which we both want.

 

[AJBryant]

The fast promotion seems indicative of a rich advanced and inclusive culture that practices advancement by INTRINSIC merit and not by class or traditionally hierachical impositions; i.e. not by arbiturarily imposed (possibly even job-conflicting) concerns like politics, religion, class background, fashion or money/profit/corporate considerations.

Yeah, screw experience. That's not important at all.

Are you *serious*?

 

[DarthPipes]

When it comes to Kirk's promotion, I say just embrace the mythos. Kirk's quick rise is the stuff of legend.

If you need another reason to justify it, consider this. Starfleet just lost seven starships with seven commanding officers. Vulcan is gone and the larger part of their fleet is in some system apparently engaged with another enemy. You have Klingons, Romulans, and maybe Cardassians at the gates. Kirk was incredibly successful in stopping an advanced enemy from saving the Earth. Like someone said, you don't give him a mop and have him start at the bottom. He's earned his shot at the top seat.

 

[Trekker4747]

I saw the movie a second time in IMAX.

- Loved the intro even more. That part of the movie really captured the essense of TOS the way the Kelvin encounterd something strange out in deep space. THAT's pure Star Trek right there.

- I loved how they muted all the sound as the Kelvin was about to hit the Narada and played a musical piece over it. It created a very nice effect.

- I finally heard McCoy call out to Nurse Chapel.

- I found myself warming up to Bruce Greenwood's Captain Pike a lot more. Loved seeing him in that Motion Picture-style admiral's uniform too.

- I got a lot of other minor details I missed the first time.

- I started to entertain the possibility that the Vulcan we know wasn't the one that was destroyed in this movie and that the one we've always seen was actually the new planet they settled on. That idea kinda went away though.

I watched the movie again today in IMAX as well.

 

[Trekker4747]

By the way, for those of you complaining about this thread being 70+ pages, you can go to your control panel and change your thread settings to display more posts per page. I only see 38 pages as of this posting.

Which changes nothing about the sheer number of posts.