The Official: Niners What did You Think of the ST Movie Thread
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Well I don't know if I've earned "Niner" status since I haven't seen the whole series yet (just started Season 7), but I seem to post in here more than other sections and I recognize more people in this thread (and therefore feel more comfortable in it) than in the official discussion thread, so I decided to post my thoughts here.
The beginning
For about the first hour of the movie, I was in heaven. I can't believe how moving and poignant the pre-credits sequence was. I guess it was a pretty obvious and unoriginal way to set up the character's backstory, but softie that I am, it totally got me. This is the first movie where I felt like crying before the opening credits even started! Weird how the most touching part of the movie could come so early!
Nero
I spent the first hour anxiously waiting to find out Nero's motivation was. I thought all the movie needed was a plausible backstory for him and everything would be set up perfectly. Unfortunately, I think the moment his history was revealed was when the movie first faltered majorly. All the exposition to explain Nero's hatred of Spock and how he and Spock travelled back in time was so contrived, it reminded me of Nemesis (not just because the guy was a miner)...it just smacked of really forcing someone into a villainous role by implausible backstory machinations (i.e. Shinzon), rather than having him seem naturally thrust into it (i.e. Khan).
Continuity/SFX
To be fair, the writers had a tough task trying to tie this together with the original series and allow themselves the freedom to break continuity at the same time, but I think they could have done that with a little more finesse. Thankfully, the contrivances of the plot were pretty much the only thing that bothered me. Some special effects were a little too murky and busy for someone with an "old school" sensibility like me who prefers battles on a smaller scale so it's easier to keep track of where everyone is and who is hitting who (I hate when there are too many ships fighting like in Star Wars, or in this case, when the ships are so out of scale with each other that it's hard to tell where each is during combat), but that's no big deal. What exactly are these "lens flares" so many people are complaining about?
Kirk, Spock, & McCoy
For me the movie succeeded despite a painfully convoluted, plot hole-riddled story because the characters and actors saved it. I found it excellently cast across the board. All the characterizations were spot-on (especially McCoy) and watching Pine naturally blossom into the role of Kirk as the movie went on was wonderful. His performance is an impressive balancing act, bringing some of the best qualities to the role that Shatner did (the warmth and playfulness, particularly in his first encounter with Uhura) while discarding some of the more distracting ones so he doesn't seem to be simply aping Shatner (i.e. the stilted dialogue) as he brings a fresh take to the character. It was almost eerie how much he sounded exactly like Shatner when he cheerfully said "Bones!" at the end, but I loved it. I thought Quinto and Urban were immediately convincing in their roles too. Urban might have been trying a little too hard to capture Kelley's mannerisms at some points, but I found it endearing.
Chekov, Sulu, and Scotty
Chekov's accent was really distracting. Until Spock's mother bit the big one, the audience I was with laughed at every single thing he said, even when it wasn't supposed to be funny. I saw it with a non English-speaking crowd and even they could tell how goofy his English accent was, but I think we need to cut the guy some slack. The actor was sort of stuck having to be a little cartoonish by design. Maybe we stopped noticing because we're used to it by now, but even in the original series, that accent was really over-the-top and more a stereotype of how Russians sound than a convincing accent. I believe he did the best with what he was given. He looks nothing like Chekov, but made an admirable attempt at affectionate mimicry.
It was nice seeing Chekov's specific skills highlighted a little more, and Sulu's love for fencing allowing him to kick ass in a sword fight was a cool touch. I wish he got more moments like that. Pegg's Scottish accent was way thicker than the original (probably easier for him than Doohan's since he's British), but otherwise, I thought he was perfect too, if a little underutilized. At the end when he was yelling about "giving her all she's got", I felt a warm tinge of nostalgia as it really felt like we'd come full circle in the Star Trek franchise, even though it was a shamelessly obvious reference.
Homages
I'm a little conflicted about the homages (especially some of McCoy's lines at Spock)...it's cute to have these references, but I kinda wish they'd say something new, rather than just using old lines from old shows and movies. There was a little too much Wrath of Khan fanwanking with the parasite and Spock's "friend" line (I think it kind of cheapened the original, although it was sweet), but I was actually wishing they referenced it a little more at one point. When Nero yells, "SPOCK!" twice, they missed a prime opportunity to have the second yell accompany an establishing shot.
It was cool to see Nimoy again, but a huge bummer that his first order of business was to explain the dumb exposition through his mindmeld. Good thing they gave him some uplifting conversations with young Kirk and Spock too.
In conclusion...
It's always frustrating to have to watch great characters and great performances stuck in a mediocre story. The first hour 'getting to know you' period was magical, but once the actual conflict and the villain's history were revealed, the movie kind of went off the rails, only to be redeemed somewhat towards the end as the crew comes together nicely. I think the movie was just what the franchise needed and a lovely moviegoing experience. I was smiling, laughing, and being entertained about 85% of the time (when the ludicrous plotholes and exposition weren't annoying me) so despite its flaws, I'm glad I saw it. I just hope next time we get a better conceived story. These actors and characters deserve one.
The beginning
For about the first hour of the movie, I was in heaven. I can't believe how moving and poignant the pre-credits sequence was. I guess it was a pretty obvious and unoriginal way to set up the character's backstory, but softie that I am, it totally got me. This is the first movie where I felt like crying before the opening credits even started! Weird how the most touching part of the movie could come so early!
Nero
I spent the first hour anxiously waiting to find out Nero's motivation was. I thought all the movie needed was a plausible backstory for him and everything would be set up perfectly. Unfortunately, I think the moment his history was revealed was when the movie first faltered majorly. All the exposition to explain Nero's hatred of Spock and how he and Spock travelled back in time was so contrived, it reminded me of Nemesis (not just because the guy was a miner)...it just smacked of really forcing someone into a villainous role by implausible backstory machinations (i.e. Shinzon), rather than having him seem naturally thrust into it (i.e. Khan).
Continuity/SFX
To be fair, the writers had a tough task trying to tie this together with the original series and allow themselves the freedom to break continuity at the same time, but I think they could have done that with a little more finesse. Thankfully, the contrivances of the plot were pretty much the only thing that bothered me. Some special effects were a little too murky and busy for someone with an "old school" sensibility like me who prefers battles on a smaller scale so it's easier to keep track of where everyone is and who is hitting who (I hate when there are too many ships fighting like in Star Wars, or in this case, when the ships are so out of scale with each other that it's hard to tell where each is during combat), but that's no big deal. What exactly are these "lens flares" so many people are complaining about?
Kirk, Spock, & McCoy
For me the movie succeeded despite a painfully convoluted, plot hole-riddled story because the characters and actors saved it. I found it excellently cast across the board. All the characterizations were spot-on (especially McCoy) and watching Pine naturally blossom into the role of Kirk as the movie went on was wonderful. His performance is an impressive balancing act, bringing some of the best qualities to the role that Shatner did (the warmth and playfulness, particularly in his first encounter with Uhura) while discarding some of the more distracting ones so he doesn't seem to be simply aping Shatner (i.e. the stilted dialogue) as he brings a fresh take to the character. It was almost eerie how much he sounded exactly like Shatner when he cheerfully said "Bones!" at the end, but I loved it. I thought Quinto and Urban were immediately convincing in their roles too. Urban might have been trying a little too hard to capture Kelley's mannerisms at some points, but I found it endearing.
Chekov, Sulu, and Scotty
Chekov's accent was really distracting. Until Spock's mother bit the big one, the audience I was with laughed at every single thing he said, even when it wasn't supposed to be funny. I saw it with a non English-speaking crowd and even they could tell how goofy his English accent was, but I think we need to cut the guy some slack. The actor was sort of stuck having to be a little cartoonish by design. Maybe we stopped noticing because we're used to it by now, but even in the original series, that accent was really over-the-top and more a stereotype of how Russians sound than a convincing accent. I believe he did the best with what he was given. He looks nothing like Chekov, but made an admirable attempt at affectionate mimicry.
It was nice seeing Chekov's specific skills highlighted a little more, and Sulu's love for fencing allowing him to kick ass in a sword fight was a cool touch. I wish he got more moments like that. Pegg's Scottish accent was way thicker than the original (probably easier for him than Doohan's since he's British), but otherwise, I thought he was perfect too, if a little underutilized. At the end when he was yelling about "giving her all she's got", I felt a warm tinge of nostalgia as it really felt like we'd come full circle in the Star Trek franchise, even though it was a shamelessly obvious reference.
Homages
I'm a little conflicted about the homages (especially some of McCoy's lines at Spock)...it's cute to have these references, but I kinda wish they'd say something new, rather than just using old lines from old shows and movies. There was a little too much Wrath of Khan fanwanking with the parasite and Spock's "friend" line (I think it kind of cheapened the original, although it was sweet), but I was actually wishing they referenced it a little more at one point. When Nero yells, "SPOCK!" twice, they missed a prime opportunity to have the second yell accompany an establishing shot.
It was cool to see Nimoy again, but a huge bummer that his first order of business was to explain the dumb exposition through his mindmeld. Good thing they gave him some uplifting conversations with young Kirk and Spock too. In conclusion...
It's always frustrating to have to watch great characters and great performances stuck in a mediocre story. The first hour 'getting to know you' period was magical, but once the actual conflict and the villain's history were revealed, the movie kind of went off the rails, only to be redeemed somewhat towards the end as the crew comes together nicely. I think the movie was just what the franchise needed and a lovely moviegoing experience. I was smiling, laughing, and being entertained about 85% of the time (when the ludicrous plotholes and exposition weren't annoying me) so despite its flaws, I'm glad I saw it. I just hope next time we get a better conceived story. These actors and characters deserve one.
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Does anyone feel tired about Talking about the movie? I figured this was the right thread to ask because it's calmer out here in DS9 land, and it's away from the forum generating all the visitors. I actually had to just unsubscribe from the forum just to stay out of there for the time being. It's just so crazy now and I feel like just sitting down a popping in an episode of TNG and DS9. I've actually been trying to get some conversations going about how TNG and DS9 fans felt about this movie (Everything is about the original series, and it's making me feel too damned young 
) so I'm glad this thread is here.
Also, I liked the movie and hope to see it again. That's all I really want to say about that at this point.
) so I'm glad this thread is here. Also, I liked the movie and hope to see it again. That's all I really want to say about that at this point.
Just made it back from seeing it. I thought it was ok. It was fun, but that was it. A great movie should be entertaining and have a worthy plot. Why can't I have both? I don't want to turn off my brain. I like my brain in the on position.
My main peeve is that the film doesn't really show why a reboot is needed. Not that I care about continuity much. There was nothing new thrown at us to make us rethink the Trek universe. Despite what people may think about NuBSG, BSG's universe was taken apart and put back together in a way that wasn't seen before. That wasn't really the case tonight. Basically what I saw was younger versions of people that I already know.
It was kind of like my father's Trek after all.
JJ gets a past this time, but the next movie had better be engaging on all levels.
Oh and what's up with Pike being booted upstairs like that? Is it a government conspiracy????
My main peeve is that the film doesn't really show why a reboot is needed. Not that I care about continuity much. There was nothing new thrown at us to make us rethink the Trek universe. Despite what people may think about NuBSG, BSG's universe was taken apart and put back together in a way that wasn't seen before. That wasn't really the case tonight. Basically what I saw was younger versions of people that I already know.
It was kind of like my father's Trek after all.
JJ gets a past this time, but the next movie had better be engaging on all levels.
Oh and what's up with Pike being booted upstairs like that? Is it a government conspiracy????
Too Much, I'm glad you enjoyed the movie. I agree with a majority of your assessments. And yes, I think you definitely are a Niner.
tomalak301, I know what you mean. Posts are getting crazier and crazier in the Trek XI forum. Every few minutes someone starts a thread about something that's already been covered in another one. I just lost track of it now. I'm so glad I'm not a mod in that forum.
Judas Ascendant, love that avatar, because I loved that series.
tomalak301, I know what you mean. Posts are getting crazier and crazier in the Trek XI forum. Every few minutes someone starts a thread about something that's already been covered in another one. I just lost track of it now. I'm so glad I'm not a mod in that forum.
Judas Ascendant, love that avatar, because I loved that series.
SolkaTruesilver,
There is nothing in the film to suggest that the Enterprise is "the Flagship of the Federation". Its a brand new ship with no previous reputation. Of no greater or less significance than any other new ship.
There is nothing in the film to suggest that the Enterprise is "the Flagship of the Federation". Its a brand new ship with no previous reputation. Of no greater or less significance than any other new ship.
SolkaTruesilver is right, Captain Pike specifically calls it 'the new flagship'. I guess it could also be the flagship of Starfleet, though. Who knows ...
Well I'm not tired of talking about it, since the first time I talked about it was right here , but I understand 301's sentiment (I just wish it hadn't come directly after my post, implying I'm redundant 
). Some of the discussion going on about it in other parts of the forum is tiresome. Part of why I posted my reaction here is because I too find the "XI" forum repetitive and intimidating right now, and wanted to post my reaction in a currently more "cozy" area of the forum 
. Thanks for the kind words, NCC.
To be a little more relevant to this forum...as a TNG and DS9 fan, I think this movie makes me appreciate the stronger episodes of both more, as well as "Star Trek: First Contact". People who criticize "First Contact" for having a clunky plot should feel spoiled after watching this movie. I think it's a little easy for many critics (especially those who aren't Trekkers) to immediately declare it a better upgrade from any of the previous Star Trek shows and movies, because of how undeniably superior to them it is in special effects technology and the fact that it brings more effective humour and interesting characterization than any we've seen in a Star Trek movie in a long time. Still, it lacks the elegance of movies like The Wrath of Khan and The Voyage Home, and despite its often successful attempts to appeal to a wider audience, it's not as accessible as the latter.
I tried not to think about it as I watched the movie, but later on it occurred to me that Star Trek 8 and the high points of TNG and DS9 were definitely more tightly written than this overplotted prequel. There are countless DS9 and TNG episode with exponentially more thoughtful, original, eloquent, and believable writing. I was afraid I would have trouble adjusting to "old Trek" again after watching the movie, but I'm just as excited (if not more excited) about watching the rest of DS9 season 7 now. After sitting through the movie's bloated storytelling, I've got a hankering for the leaner, more character-driven adventure of the space station drama.
, but I understand 301's sentiment (I just wish it hadn't come directly after my post, implying I'm redundant ). Some of the discussion going on about it in other parts of the forum is tiresome. Part of why I posted my reaction here is because I too find the "XI" forum repetitive and intimidating right now, and wanted to post my reaction in a currently more "cozy" area of the forum . Thanks for the kind words, NCC. To be a little more relevant to this forum...as a TNG and DS9 fan, I think this movie makes me appreciate the stronger episodes of both more, as well as "Star Trek: First Contact". People who criticize "First Contact" for having a clunky plot should feel spoiled after watching this movie. I think it's a little easy for many critics (especially those who aren't Trekkers) to immediately declare it a better upgrade from any of the previous Star Trek shows and movies, because of how undeniably superior to them it is in special effects technology and the fact that it brings more effective humour and interesting characterization than any we've seen in a Star Trek movie in a long time. Still, it lacks the elegance of movies like The Wrath of Khan and The Voyage Home, and despite its often successful attempts to appeal to a wider audience, it's not as accessible as the latter.
I tried not to think about it as I watched the movie, but later on it occurred to me that Star Trek 8 and the high points of TNG and DS9 were definitely more tightly written than this overplotted prequel. There are countless DS9 and TNG episode with exponentially more thoughtful, original, eloquent, and believable writing. I was afraid I would have trouble adjusting to "old Trek" again after watching the movie, but I'm just as excited (if not more excited) about watching the rest of DS9 season 7 now. After sitting through the movie's bloated storytelling, I've got a hankering for the leaner, more character-driven adventure of the space station drama.
I don't remember that at all. I have seen it two times. Maybe you are right but I am surprised I would miss that.
Well, at least Nero actually went after the right planet.
After getting spoiled on Countdown, Nero's motivation makes some moderate sense--I just wish they'd done more of it in the actual movie, because even though Bana is great, and I want to enjoy Nero, I agree he comes across as way too cardboard.
Then again, Kirk comes across as a sociopath. I think that kind of worked, and I realize he always had been disgustingly self-centered and overconfident--right up until the end of Star Trek II, when his egotism killed his best friend.
Overall, of course, I was mightily entertained.
I never got that extreme love for Khan most of you guys seem to have, he never impressed me all that much at all. I don't have any problem with Nero's motivation, I think it's very plausible and I think Eric Bana conveyed the guy's feelings very well. But then again I have always had a soft spot for that man, and the thought of seeing him donning the ears and the slanted eyebrows made me happy from day one.
I guess we're all more tolerant towards things and people we like.
I guess we're all more tolerant towards things and people we like.
Typical summer blockbuster type movie where action/special effects are all that matters.
I am truly shocked at all the love this movie is getting.
This movie had more plotholes and characterization problems than Nemesis.
I am truly shocked at all the love this movie is getting.
This movie had more plotholes and characterization problems than Nemesis.
Agreed, and its odd that I've seen quite a few Nemesis bashers praising this movie. I never thought I'd say this, but Shinzon was a better thought-out villain than Nero, and I actually thought he was more interesting to watch too.
I would give it a 3.5 out of 5.
I know it was flawed, but it was fun...and the characters had life. (Also, I like the diversity of the cast)....
I know it was flawed, but it was fun...and the characters had life. (Also, I like the diversity of the cast)....
hummm you're probably right rofeta...anyway for me it was a DS9 moment. Just surprising more of you weren't more enthusiastic for the movie.
Anyway one good thing, I'm thinking we got close to a hundred or so new posters...some of 'em have to be Niners. Here's to the
new blood .
I'm actually surprised that so many people liked the movie, but different strokes I guess.
It seems that this film has brought in many new fans as well as reigniting the affections of many original fans, and Star Trek is theirs now, so good luck them and I hope they enjoy it. I hope to rejoin you some day if the film franchise manages to be more than a generic action film, and I do hope that is the case.
Well I'm not tired of talking about it, since the first time I talked about it was right here
Too Much,
I apologize if I was implying that. That was not my intent and other than you pointing it out, I didn't even know who posted before me.
Anyway, I've been talking about the movie since I came home on Thursday night. There were like 300+ people in the Trek XI forum last I saw and I just don't like that kind of activity. I think the highest I'll go before I just give up is what happened during the BSG finale. This weekend just became overwhelming and what I've said about the movie is pretty much all I wanted to say. That, and I'm jealous and dumbfounded that people would go see this movie 3 to 4 times in one weekend. I'm going to see it again, but I wanted to spread out the turnaround time.
We'll probably be talking about this movie from now until at least the next one. I didn't want to waste it all on one weekend.
Went and saw it again today. I think I enjoyed it a little more this time around by putting aside the more "sophisticated" mindset of 24th century Trek and embracing the more cavalier, rough and tumble style of TOS Trek. Still flawed? Yes, but I didn't allow the flaws to bother me as much and just went along for the ride!
Here's a time travel conundrum to chew on... Why would Nimoy Spock remember things from the original time line, for example George Kirk not getting killed? Once the past was changed, shouldn't Quinto Spock's experiences be his memories now???
Here's a time travel conundrum to chew on... Why would Nimoy Spock remember things from the original time line, for example George Kirk not getting killed? Once the past was changed, shouldn't Quinto Spock's experiences be his memories now???
I enjoyed it quite a bit, though I thought the cold open was a bit melodramatic, and the science was downright insulting. Apparently "red matter" does...whatever it has to do. No need to even explain it to the audience.
The characters were spot on, though, which is what most of the critics have been praising, from what I've read. And that's where the movie really comes through. Kirk, Spock (both versions), Scotty, Pike, and Uhura were pitch-perfect. McCoy, Chekov, and Sulu were pretty good, too.
The cinematography was sound, and the action the best Trek has ever done, on the big screen or otherwise.
The characters were spot on, though, which is what most of the critics have been praising, from what I've read. And that's where the movie really comes through. Kirk, Spock (both versions), Scotty, Pike, and Uhura were pitch-perfect. McCoy, Chekov, and Sulu were pretty good, too.
The cinematography was sound, and the action the best Trek has ever done, on the big screen or otherwise.
The movie was flawed in some respects, but it had its heart in the right place. It was by far the most enjoyable Star Trek adventure in a decade.
THE BEST:
The casting for the big three was spot on. Pine in particular deserves praise for BEING Captain Kirk without resorting to the usual fake Shatner impersonations. So many reviewers failed to realize just how well he had captured the essence of Shatner's Kirk because he didn't resort... to adding... cheesy... pausestohis... dialogue. So many times he'd give a cocky grin or a brief line of dialogue that was simply 100% James T. Kirk, and I never felt for a moment that he was anybody BUT the childhood hero we all know and love.
THE WORST:
Nero. I'm not referring to Bana, but the character himself. So much of Nero's story seems to revolve around reading the comic adaptation apparently, and so much more seems to be lost due to the cut Klingon sequence. That's very sloppy, and makes Nero come across as completely uninteresting. He ranks somewhere below the whale probe in terms of character development, for pete's sake.
THE BEST:
The casting for the big three was spot on. Pine in particular deserves praise for BEING Captain Kirk without resorting to the usual fake Shatner impersonations. So many reviewers failed to realize just how well he had captured the essence of Shatner's Kirk because he didn't resort... to adding... cheesy... pausestohis... dialogue. So many times he'd give a cocky grin or a brief line of dialogue that was simply 100% James T. Kirk, and I never felt for a moment that he was anybody BUT the childhood hero we all know and love.
THE WORST:
Nero. I'm not referring to Bana, but the character himself. So much of Nero's story seems to revolve around reading the comic adaptation apparently, and so much more seems to be lost due to the cut Klingon sequence. That's very sloppy, and makes Nero come across as completely uninteresting. He ranks somewhere below the whale probe in terms of character development, for pete's sake.
