The New Klingons

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Cat's and Dog's weren't engineered to be genetically compatible, the races of the Milky Way galaxy were.

I offered that as a joke. But we can play with this. When most of the races of the Milky Way were engineered to be genetically compatible by our Odo-looking progenitors, it stands to reason that Earth-bound life should be compatible with each other when advanced races who arise from completely different genetic backgrounds are. Humans were not specifically genetically engineered... all life on Earth was engineered to give rise to an advanced intelligent race, where primates won that battle. Would an early Earth hominid and a comparable ancient Klingon beast be able to procreate? Does this mean that alien species do not become similar until after they reach a certain complexity? What about races that look like dogs and cats? Is it somehow more reasonable to believe that Catians might be able to mate with those dog-faced aliens from season one of TNG when they are from completely different planets and backgrounds than it is for cats and dogs of Earth, who arose relatively recently from the same genetic ancestor? Would humans be able to mate with the Voth just because we are both advanced species? If so, would a chimpanzee be able to mate with a chicken when humans and Voth developed from the relatively same respective parent species?

 

[137th Gebirg]

I note the smiley, but I'm going to double-down on the autistic scale and remind you that the Preservers weren't the same Ancient Humanoid group who seeded the Milky Way 4.5 billion years ago. The Preservers were much more recent, and possibly even contemporaneous with the UFP. They might have been the group responsible for Gary Seven, for example. We know of their direct reference in "The Paradise Syndrom" only, but could infer their involvement in other episodes such as "Miri".

Explaining the existence of non-Federation Human colonies using the Preservers is easy. What I want to know is, how do other planets that Enterprise encountered (including Miri's planet) appear to be exactly like Earth? I mean, exactly, right down to the shape and position of the continents?? We're approaching Magrathean-level technology if someone out there has the ability to replicate and move planets around. What if Miri's planet is the original and ours is the copy? Maybe the makers of the Dyson Sphere were responsible; experimenting? Those are the questions I would like to see explored in Trek more, not human/humanoid hybrid minutia explanations. That shit bores the hell out of me.

 

[JD]

Even more evidence then, especially as that wasn't helped by any kind of medical intervention and was an accident, that humans and Klingons are the same species. And yet have been established clearly not to be in dialogue (redundant organs, different blood, different anatomy, etc etc). Trek = ruined forever.

Like it or not, Star Trek has, since Season One of TOS, been based in part on the idea that different species that evolve on different worlds can reproduce. This is partially because Star Trek has often used "species" as a fantastical stand-in for ethnicity or racial group. (More than a few academic articles have been written arguing that Star Trek is in fact racist for doing so.)

Would Klingon/Human or Vulcan/human hybrids really be that different from real world hybrids like mules or ligers? I wouldn't find it to hard to believe that humans and Klingons or Vulcans are at least as closely related as horses and donkeys, or tigers and lions.

Explaining the existence of non-Federation Human colonies using the Preservers is easy. What I want to know is, how do other planets that Enterprise encountered (including Miri's planet) appear to be exactly like Earth? I mean, exactly, right down to the shape and position of the continents?? We're approaching Magrathean-level technology if someone out there has the ability to replicate and move planets around. What if Miri's planet is the original and ours is the copy? Maybe the makers of the Dyson Sphere were responsible; experimenting? Those are the questions I would like to see explored in Trek more.

I can't remember which one it is, other than one I haven't read, but I believe one of Christopher L. Bennett's novels offers an explanation for Miri's planet.

 

[CorporalClegg]

"The Chase" was silly. It was yet another attempt to give an explanation to something that didn't need one because arguments like this. Plus, as explanations go, it doesn't hold up under any critical scrutiny.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Sorry but you aren't allowed to do that, and any attempt to do so will get called out for the lie it is.

You understand trek has used retcons all the time right? Son, Klingon forheads. The whole thing is a retcon.

 

[CorporalClegg]

They didn't 'retcon' anything. They just changed it.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

They didn't 'retcon' anything. They just changed it.

Oh really? A change to the whole race is not a retcon? Really???

Excellent then bald klings are not a retcon, thry have always been bald

 

[Psion]

Explaining the existence of non-Federation Human colonies using the Preservers is easy. What I want to know is, how do other planets that Enterprise encountered (including Miri's planet) appear to be exactly like Earth? I mean, exactly, right down to the shape and position of the continents?? We're approaching Magrathean-level technology if someone out there has the ability to replicate and move planets around. What if Miri's planet is the original and ours is the copy? Maybe the makers of the Dyson Sphere were responsible; experimenting? Those are the questions I would like to see explored in Trek more, not human/humanoid hybrid minutia explanations. That shit bores the hell out of me.

I briefly considered that Miri's planet was the original when I posted above, then I realized we have a long tradition of star gazing on this planet that goes back ten thousand years, and if there had been a change in the night sky since then, we'd have noticed. On the other hand, maybe the duplication happened before that. Or maybe Miri's planet was in a place in the galaxy where the night sky was similar and the change in constellations would have been less obvious. We'd look for phenomena such as Vega once being the North Star -- wait a minute ...

Another planet to qualify for Preserver intervention would be 892-IV from "Bread and Circuses", and when you get into ancient astronomy, these modern-day Romans would have certainly noticed a change, given that they had a Jupiter and Mars. Not that they specifically said they had those planets in their system, but the loss of them in the night sky might have been enough to solidify a pantheon of gods against Christianity for a few thousand years more.

As for the mechanism, who knows? Maybe they used space-going earth-moving machines that could manufacture planets. Maybe they had planetary replicators. For all we know, a future Earth civilization itself might be the reason there are so many duplicated Earths. They were just messing around with time.

 

[Fateor]

I can't remember which one it is, other than one I haven't read, but I believe one of Christopher L. Bennett's novels offers an explanation for Miri's planet.

It was the DTI novel Forgotten History.

In it Miri's planet was a dimensionally displaced copy of Earth.

 

[Tuskin38]

They didn't 'retcon' anything. They just changed it.

No, it was a retcon until DS9 and Enterprise talked about it.

You were suppose to pretend Klingons always looked like that.

 

[Psion]

No, it was a retcon until DS9 and Enterprise talked about it.

You were suppose to pretend Klingons always looked like that.

And even DS9 had a tongue-in-cheek attitude toward the whole thing that the writers of those Augment DNA episodes on Enterprise took far too seriously.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

And even DS9 had a tongue-in-cheek attitude toward the whole thing that the writers of those Augment DNA episodes on Enterprise took far too seriously.

I loved how DS9 treated it, in making it a quick in and out line, addressing the look being different and making fans smile that it got recognized.

And while Enterprise had a neat idea for an in-universe explanation, it got a little too overwrought.

 

[Kor]

I briefly considered that Miri's planet was the original when I posted above, then I realized we have a long tradition of star gazing on this planet that goes back ten thousand years, and if there had been a change in the night sky since then, we'd have noticed. On the other hand, maybe the duplication happened before that. Or maybe Miri's planet was in a place in the galaxy where the night sky was similar and the change in constellations would have been less obvious. We'd look for phenomena such as Vega once being the North Star -- wait a minute ...

Another planet to qualify for Preserver intervention would be 892-IV from "Bread and Circuses", and when you get into ancient astronomy, these modern-day Romans would have certainly noticed a change, given that they had a Jupiter and Mars. Not that they specifically said they had those planets in their system, but the loss of them in the night sky might have been enough to solidify a pantheon of gods against Christianity for a few thousand years more.

As for the mechanism, who knows? Maybe they used space-going earth-moving machines that could manufacture planets. Maybe they had planetary replicators. For all we know, a future Earth civilization itself might be the reason there are so many duplicated Earths. They were just messing around with time.

Those people Worf's brother moved are going to realize something's screwy when they look up at the sky at night.

Kor

 

[Tuskin38]

Sorry if this was posted already

http://io9.gizmodo.com/klingon-ridges-will-finally-be-explained-on-star-trek-1797538814

So the Klingon ridges are 'sensory organs'

 

[cultcross]

Would Klingon/Human or Vulcan/human hybrids really be that different from real world hybrids like mules or ligers? I wouldn't find it to hard to believe that humans and Klingons or Vulcans are at least as closely related as horses and donkeys, or tigers and lions.

Indeed, but the key to the species definition is being able to produce fertile offspring. Mules and ligers aren't usually fertile (real world biology isn't quite as cut and dried as the definitions but it's a working generalisation) We don't see proof that, for example, Spock is fertile, so he is your mule as it were. But K'ehleyr and B'Elanna, themselves hybrids, definitely are fertile, in the former case extremely so. That is far more surprising.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Those people Worf's brother moved are going to realize something's screwy when they look up at the sky at night.

Well, they already knew they moved to a completely different area (just didn't remember how ) so they'll probably just write it off.

 

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[JD]

Indeed, but the key to the species definition is being able to produce fertile offspring. Mules and ligers usually fertile (real world biology isn't quite as cut and dried as the definitions but it's a working generalisation) We don't see proof that, for example, Spock is fertile, so he is your mule as it were. But K'ehleyr and B'Elanna, themselves hybrids, definitely are fertile, in the former case extremely so. That is far more surprising.

According to wikipedia there have been a small number of female mules who have had babies when bred with pure donkeys or horses, so it's not totally impossible for hybrids to be fertile. And since most of the cases we've seen have been a hybrid with a pure human, that could make it a bit more plausible.

 

[cylkoth]

The Bolian invasion rendered the empire hairless in this time period.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

The part about ridges being sensory receptors, didn't make much sense, as why would any Klingon choose to grow hair, if this blocked it?