The mystery of the Breen language

[Myasishchev]

In Star Trek, I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen immediate scans for life forms from light years away...

Building a replica should have been beyond the means of our unlikely heroes. Would they really go all the way back to their runabout (it was a long way)? Would the runabout be capable of creating the replicas in the first place? Would the replicas be accurate enough to fool anybody?

OTOH, stealing empty suits shouldn't have been all that difficult. I mean, the likeliest place for storing them would be near the entrance to those facilities the Breen find comfortable (supposedly, their ship or then some barracks within the mine). If we believe in the refrigeration function, then the suits would be in some sort of a "heatlock" or antechamber that would alternately be outdoors hot or indoors cold; our heroes could have found it in the former state, and would certainly have avoided venturing deeper into the Breen ship or habitat at that time. Indeed, if all the Breen weren't outside working (and thus gunned down by Kira and Dukat there), then either our heroes or the remaining Breen themselves would have locked the habitat until authorities arrived or the heroes departed. In either case, the Breen locked inside would have performed some sort of a disappearing trick before getting caught...

This is pretty sensible, but overly convoluted. The simplest thing to do would be to replicate suits. I don't see why their runabout couldn't. They had time, afaik, and the least risky option would be to make suits.

As for whether the Breen could tell them apart, they obviously weren't going to hold up to close scrutiny anyway. The freezer units probably could not have been on without sacrificing a great deal of comfort and effectiveness (behold, the Shivering Breen!), and they didn't speak the language. Any real attempt at identification by a real Breen was going to undo their ruse, even if they had real suits, and they knew it. Thus, I would figure that they decided to skip the dangerous (and off-screen ) extra step of stealing suits.

The guns were real, though.

 

[mirandafave]

I think the mystery of the Breen goes beyond their language but hints at something more sinister to their secretive nature. My theory [copyrighted hee hee] is that the Breen are some sort of biological borg assimilating the dead and reanimating it in their own image, hence the varied environments and contrary evidence and complete secrecy. The Breen are some sort of biological organism that overtake the bodies of the dead or living they have conquered. Hence the weird translators that need to scramble and then scramble again speech patterns of the different alien species they take over and the suits incase the ugly biological mush and another reason why no one has seen a Breen because they would only see gloop and when the suits open the body 'dissolves'. Plausible at all?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Kinda like the Kobali on VOY, but not as effective?

 

[mirandafave]

I never saw them so I'll take your word on it. My thinking is that there must be some reason the Breen are so secretive about their origin and how they look. I'm assuming that unlike in B5 it's not cos they are hiding an angelic appearance. So trying to protect the fact they are actually an assemblage of other species, converted biologically or whatnot to become Breen. Assuming of course, they have a preference for bi-pedal humanoid looking species.

 

[apenpaap]

Maybe they're really small creatures inhibiting robots of humanoids, like in Men in Black. Only they can't make very realistic skin, so they just have their robots look like robots and claim it's a refrigeration suit.

 

[QuasarVM]

C'mon BONES -- What's the MYSTERY???!!!

 

[mirandafave]

Maybe they are simply shy and I'm reading too much into it.

 

[PSGarak]

Maybe they are simply shy and I'm reading too much into it.

Shy, delicate creatures. They're not mean or aggressive, really! They're just misunderstood. Like the Founders, they've been persecuted. Their solution is to dress in head to toe suits, pretend to need the cold, and distort their sweet, childlike voices. You've hit on gold!

 

[Myasishchev]

I never saw them so I'll take your word on it. My thinking is that there must be some reason the Breen are so secretive about their origin and how they look. I'm assuming that unlike in B5 it's not cos they are hiding an angelic appearance. So trying to protect the fact they are actually an assemblage of other species, converted biologically or whatnot to become Breen. Assuming of course, they have a preference for bi-pedal humanoid looking species.

That is pretty cool. I prefer ammonial biochemistry myself, but the Breen as less-lame Plan Niners is pretty cool too. I don't really see the need to keep that particularly secret, however. I mean, Trek is universe full of weird-ass life forms. The Trills are basically born and bred to be possessed by tapeworms, and nobody minds that. The Ferengi could have a field day trafficking in corpses. Heck, I'd love to sell my dead body while I'm still alive. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, this is no longer legal.

An alternative reason--and the best reason that we ought not give away our medical knowledge right off to any aliens we meet who would miraculously find our planet habitable and useful--is that the Breen fear an engineered plague.

And damn well they should. The Federation loves to infect its enemies with engineered plagues.

Fwiw, this is the only good reason why the Romulans would have hidden their heritage during the war. The Andorians probably had huge stockpiles of Vulcan ebola waiting for the right moment.

 

[Timo]

The Trills are basically born and bred to be possessed by tapeworms, and nobody minds that.

Umm, we can say that our DS9 heroes don't mind that, but probably nothing more. Our TNG heroes found it gross and repulsive, and there's no proof that the UFP citizenry at large knows what is going on. They see a spotted humanoid, they go "Trill! Or Kriosian! Who cares, he/she is gorgeous!" without necessarily realizing there's intel inside.

Fwiw, this is the only good reason why the Romulans would have hidden their heritage during the war. The Andorians probably had huge stockpiles of Vulcan ebola waiting for the right moment.

Perhaps this is why the Romulan blood is different from Vulcan, but finds commonalities in Klingon blood: in the centuries awaiting a rematch with their ancestral home, the Romulans modified themselves, so that they could wield classic anti-Vulcan bioweapons with abandon and not harm their own citizens in the process.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The Trills are basically born and bred to be possessed by tapeworms, and nobody minds that.

Umm, we can say that our DS9 heroes don't mind that, but probably nothing more. Our TNG heroes found it gross and repulsive, and there's no proof that the UFP citizenry at large knows what is going on. They see a spotted humanoid, they go "Trill! Or Kriosian! Who cares, he/she is gorgeous!" without necessarily realizing there's intel inside.

HA!

I was NOT expecting the "Intel Inside" comment--I literally just did a spit take all over the keyboard. In the break room at work. Thanks a lot...now I have to clean it up!

 

[Myasishchev]

The Trills are basically born and bred to be possessed by tapeworms, and nobody minds that.

Umm, we can say that our DS9 heroes don't mind that, but probably nothing more. Our TNG heroes found it gross and repulsive, and there's no proof that the UFP citizenry at large knows what is going on. They see a spotted humanoid, they go "Trill! Or Kriosian! Who cares, he/she is gorgeous!" without necessarily realizing there's intel inside.

Still, it's disingenuous to say that the UFP at large is unaware of Trill symbiosis. I mean, remember (I know it'll hurt, so I'll try to keep it brief ) "Let He Who is Without Sin"? Vanessa Williams is totally aware that Kurzon had slugs for brains. Jadzia and even Ezri, who didn't even want the little parasite and who would, if the UFP had money, be entitled to a shitload of restitution from the Dax estate*, spoke very freely about their status.

Plus they change their legal surnames to that of some random guy who always has just died--sociologists are going to look into that.

*Hey, that's an interesting question. What happens to property in Trill society? I mean, do Trill wills (lol) ordinarily devise everything to the new host, or are they expected to rebuild whatever fortunes they had? That would seem odd. At the same time, they are no longer permitted to associate with their old families, potentially depriving dependents of support, so do spouses and children get an elective share, or what? For example, presumably Ezri's mom's goofonium mine devolves to her, but after that it could go not to Ezri's putative kids, but the following Dax symbiont.

 

[Tulin]

And was the first time we ever heard any sort of purported Breen language in Season 7, or was there anything in "Indiscretion"?

Hah!

Funny thing is, I just watch "Indiscretion" last night, as part of our ongoing DS9 viewing and I listened carefully for any Breen speaking.

There was none.

What a coincidence!

 

[Timo]

Vanessa Williams is totally aware that Kurzon had slugs for brains.

Then again, Curzon's profession hinged upon his ability to judge people and take them into his confidence. Sisko knew about him, too - but never told anybody who would have told Picard, Riker, Crusher...

It isn't dramatically that implausible to have these "possessed" folks walking among us unnoticed. It's the classic vampire myth slightly revamped, har, har, excuse my Überwaldian. Some people know and accept; others know and disapprove; but there's little to nothing to be done anyway, and those who disapprove aren't in any actual harm from the slugs.

Spock spoke freely of pon farr to Droxine. Odds are the story never left those lips, though, and Spock probably would have known that in advance. Apparently, pon farr is still a secret in the late 24th century; one wonders if the original CMO of the Voyager knew about it, what with not being connected to the entire UFP pool of medical knowledge like the EMH is...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rush Limborg]

My $0.02:

I seem to recall, In WYLB, we briefly can make out what Thot Ghor says. At one point, I could've sworn he was saying something like, "Either way...we fight!"

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Seriously? Exactly when???

 

[Rush Limborg]

It's when the Female Changeling is discussing options with Damar's replacement and Thot Ghor. I think it's the same scene where she comments on the Jem'Hadar motto, "Victory is life".

 

[ProtoAvatar]

About the breen:

"Why does nobody know what they really look like?" - consider, Kira incapacitated breen and took their suits on at least two occasions.

Perhaps because there is a mechanism that disintegrates the breen when his suit is removed. There are other possible explanations - they are not humanoids and their body evaporates at high (for them) temperatures; this is contradicted by their warm homeworld and their humanoid-frendly tech, though.

And their world is warm, according to Weyoun, who has a tolerance to cold comparable to the human one - he began freezing in a runabout who just shut off life support (DS9:Treachery, Faith and the Great River).

"Why do their wear their refrigeration suits when they don't need to?"
Perhaps it's simply secrecy. Maybe it's something vital - they could be ill and those suits could be keeping them alive. Maybe they refrigerate themselves simply as a means of attaining biological immortality.

 

[Timo]

..consider, Kira incapacitated breen and took their suits on at least two occasions.

But this was never stated. All we saw was that Kira obtained a Breen suit somehow, once in that slave mine and once in the Cardassian capital. One would think that if she did so by incapacitating the occupant, the suit would be noticeably damaged. After all, one would assume the suit to stop stun phasers or knockout punches just fine, requiring Kira to apply lethal weaponry that leaves marks... So alternate mechanisms of obtaining a suit would seem more probable.

On the other side of the coin, the "nobody has ever seen a Breen" thing is something Worf utters in the following exchange:

Ezri: "I wonder what the Breen look like under those helmets?"
Worf: "They say no one has ever seen one and lived to speak of it."
Ezri: "Maybe they're all furry. It's supposed to be very cold on Breen."

So it's unlikely that the Breen evaporate when their suits are cracked, because Ezri and Worf would then know about this, being in the confidence of Kira. They wouldn't speculate about fur any longer. Indeed, this exchange more or less confirms that Kira didn't overpower any Breen when obtaining her two suits...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Timo - what alternate mechanisms are you talking about?
A replicator materializing near her on two occasions - with specs for the suit in its memory?
Or did Kira break into a heavily defended breen garnizon on Cardassia Prime/into the guards lockers in the slave mine and stole a suit?
I find such explanations convoluted.

Stun phasers could not be stopped by any body armor seen in trek (except for the borg one) - not klingon armor, not cardasian armor. Why should the breen armor be any different? - their tech level is ~the same.
Kira incapacitating breen with a stun phaser is quite beleivable. The suit then disintegrated the breen in it when Kira tried to remove the suit/when the breen soldier was incapacitated.

Ezri: "I wonder what the Breen look like under those helmets?"
Worf: "They say no one has ever seen one and lived to speak of it."
Ezri: "Maybe they're all furry. It's supposed to be very cold on Breen."

So - no one ever saw a breen.
This confirms my explanation about the breen disintegrating when their suits are removed. It explains WHY no one saw a breen - and it could very well be common knowledge - including for Ezri/Worf.
And if Ezri and Worf don't know how a breen looks like, they will, of course, speculate about it - fur and beyond.