The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

[Navigator_NCC2120]

If Rand's quarters were on deck 12, why does her door say 3C 46? Hmmm?

Maybe it means Section 3, Deck C, Room 46. The number C in the hexadecimal numbering system is equivalent to 12 in the decimal system. I recall years ago in either my French class or Computer class the instructor stating that the French use 3 numbering systems: Octal (base 8), Decimal (base 10), and Hexadecimal (base 16). Maybe Starfleet uses hexadecimal instead of decimal.

So Section 3, Deck C, Room 46 in hexadecimal is equal to Section 3, Deck 12, Room 70 in decimal.

Just a thought,


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
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[Navigator_NCC2120]

What on earth did CRA get banned for?I've read his last few posts and they're hardly inflammatory stuff

I had no idea Captain Robert April got banned either. I just thought he was busy working on that Star Trek book he had as his avatar.


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\

 

[BK613]

If Rand's quarters were on deck 12, why does her door say 3C 46? Hmmm?

Maybe it means Section 3, Deck C, Room 46. The number C in the hexadecimal numbering system is equivalent to 12 in the decimal system. I recall years ago in either my French class or Computer class the instructor stating that the French use 3 numbering systems: Octal (base 8), Decimal (base 10), and Hexadecimal (base 16). Maybe Starfleet uses hexadecimal instead of decimal.

So Section 3, Deck C, Room 46 in hexadecimal is equal to Room 3, Deck 12, Room 70 in decimal.

Just a thought,


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\

For all we know, they could have swiped those labels off of existing doors on the Desilu lot. You know, like cutlery from the commissary.

They are part of the "appearance of complexity" that adds to the background believability. Like stardates, GNDN labels, patches on multicolored uniforms, and windows. Details that added to the verisimilitude but without the over-the-top forethought of a TNG Tech Manual.

The windows, of course, were not really intended to inform about the interior of the ship but to inform about the scale of the ship. As in, "Wow! Look at those windows! This thing is as tall as a twenty story building!"

 

[Unicron]

What on earth did CRA get banned for?I've read his last few posts and they're hardly inflammatory stuff

As with most posters who were around for quite a long time, it's a long story. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Forbin]

April is over at www.hobbytalk.com if anybody wants to say hi.

 

[Robert Comsol]

I'm glad the pylon issue has been raised - it's certainly a weird point in the construction of a Starship!

Regarding the in-universe naming of these decks, it only really occurs in three episodes:

Mudd’s Women: Kirk’s cabin is on this deck [i.e. 12] (apparently) and has a decent stretch of corridor adjoining it. As has been repeatedly pointed out, there is no way to squeeze this all into the pylon (horizontally anyway - thanks Timo for your usual skill in bursting the envelope!)

Enemy Within: Rand’s quarters are blatantly on this deck (G. T. Fisher calls for aid from an intercom) and even more corridor is visible prior to this on Evilkirk’s drunken ramble to her door. Regarding this ramble, why is Evilkirk even here? The presence of Rand’s cabin seems to take him almost by surprise, just a fortunate opportunity to be taken advantage of. I would postulate that he is going back to his cabin and just happens to pass her own along the way. In fact, at this point in the series, “Deck 12” is almost being treated as the main deck of the ship, hardly suitable if that deck were situated in the pylon neck.

Dagger Of The Mind: Here, Van Gelder is spotted on Deck 14, having (apparently) exited the Transporter Room and started roaming the corridors. There is not indication that he ever used a turbolift – if he had, wouldn’t he have gone somewhere more secluded? Or if his ultimate destination was in fact the bridge – why not there? To detour via the pylon neck is an odd choice, even for him! ...

So, if the lower saucer rim deck is deck 7 (personally I think deck 5 is more accurate but that’s another debate) then the pylon takes on decks 8, 9 and 10, leaving the Engineering hull to begin fresh at deck 11. Deck 12 is then situated slightly down into the secondary hull, plenty of space for everything seen on screen!

P.S.
If the pylon neck decks end at deck 10, this is similar to the lowest of the saucer decks. Maybe the emergency separation actually occurs at the bottom of the pylon instead of the top? This would have the added bonus of keeping all the numbered decks together…

P.P.S.
I just realised, this last bit has been thought of before, in the Star Trek Officer's Manual:


(click for link to full size - thanks to http://www.cygnus-x1.net for this resource)

This seems to be the thread I was looking for and I hope Mytran forgives that I'm cannibalizing his post as a starting point.

A long time ago I was biased because of the diagram in The Star Trek Officer's Manual believing that saucer separation would require a section of the neck to come along with the saucer, I now believe this to be different and its just the saucer that separates, leaving the engineering hull with the neck section behind.
The Making of Star Trek only provided deck numbers for the primary hull and deck 11 was the lowest, no deck numbers were given for the engineering hull (I believe for TMP the lowest one for the engineering hull was 18 or 19).

Therefore, I believe the engineering decks start at the top of the neck or pylon section with engineering deck 1. According to a cutaway I did back in the 1980's (I used the pylon's / engineering hull's windows as reference for deck height) I arrived at 18 engineering decks and decks 12 and 14 would just be in the middle of the engineering hull and there'd even be windows that could match the windows of Kirk's provisional quarters (while his own were renovated; this is "Mudd's Women" that just takes place shortly after WNM and everything is in the process or just recently has been upgraded) - one is circular, one rectangular (on the port side the windows may just be square...).

Then why don't they say "engineering deck"? Since there are no decks exceeding deck 11 in the saucer, deck 12 can only be an engineering deck.

Then why doesn't Spock say "engineering deck 2" in "Enterprise Incident" when he accompanies the Romulan Commander to her quarters (in the neck)?
In "Conscience of the King" Kevin Riley stole a phaser from "H deck". "The Doomsday Machine" established that the shuttlecraft hangar is not just on deck 1X but that this entire engineering deck is labeled "hangar deck" - or "H deck".
"E deck" might be the deck with the "Engineering Section" (not to be confused with the "Engine Control Room" in the saucer) and deck 2 in the saucer might also have an alphabetic designation. Thus the turbolift computer understands that Spock wants to travel to engineering deck 2.

Bob

 

[Albertese]

^^^

Seems a little wacky to me, but then, I seem to recall looking at RL ship plans from about a century ago where decks were labeled using such convoluted schemes, so it's probably not without precedent.

--Alex

 

[Mytran]

That's some fine extrapolation! (especially H-deck and E-Deck). However I need to add another fly to the ointment:

In The Naked Time Uhura reports that Sulu is running around in "level 2 corridor 3". If this "level 2" is "Engineering Level 2" (otherwise wouldn't she say "Deck 2") then there are a LOT of corridors crammed into the top of the pylon - impossibly so

 

[blssdwlf]

Well we do know that Engineering has many decks.

"Where No Man Has Gone Before"

CREWMAN: Engineering deck three, can you give damage report?
​

"The Conscience of the King"

KIRK: Lieutenant Kevin Riley in communications, I wish to have him transferred down to the engineering decks.
​

"The Corbomite Maneuver"

KIRK: Helmsman, engineering decks could have been faster, too.
​

"The Enemy Within"

KIRK: The lower levels. The Engineering deck.
...
SCOTT: Mister Scott, sir, on the lower level of the Engineering deck.
​

And there are references to decks in general by number such as "Deck 12", "Deck 14", "Deck 8" and also "H Deck", "B Deck".

In my personal view, I think there are probably multiple deck schemes going on.

• A named deck, such as "Engineering Deck" can contain multiple levels. There are also multiple "Engineering Decks", most likely because of the Engineering section.
• Decks 1-20 (or more) are probably all decks, top to bottom. In my version of the Enterprise, Deck 10 is the neck area. Deck 11 is the top of the Engineering section for me. This is partly due to how many decks I can fit in on the Primary hull.
• Alpha letter decks are probably primary hull decks - since "B Deck" seems to be a good place to sabotage impulse engines while in orbit in "Court Martial".

Anyway, that's just my thinking and YMMV

 

[Albertese]

^^^
So, where is B deck? Immediately beneath the bridge? Why would that be a good place to sabotage the impulse engines from? If it's some place closer to the impulse engines, then why would it be called "B deck"?

Also, the WNMHGB reference... does it have to be "Engineering Deck 3" as in the third of several Engineering Decks, or could it be "Engineering, Deck 3" as in one of several Engineering stations, one of which happens to be located on Deck 3?

 

[blssdwlf]

^^^
So, where is B deck? Immediately beneath the bridge? Why would that be a good place to sabotage the impulse engines from? If it's some place closer to the impulse engines, then why would it be called "B deck"?

Yes, well, in my version anyway. The only place I can fit a tall 2-deck engineering room in the primary hull happens to be much further in to the center of the hull. What I also did was move the bridge a little further down so it takes more of the top bulge structure to account for the turbolift alignment. So in my version, the floor of the engine room is "D Deck" and goes up to "C Deck". "B Deck" is just above the engine room machinery and could make a great place to sabotage the power systems. And since Kirk ends up running to some Jeffries Tube to make his repairs, it's a decent place to extrapolate to, IMHO. For the purposes of the episode, Kirk could have started his search at "B Deck" and ended up in the engine room as he made his way down

Also, the WNMHGB reference... does it have to be "Engineering Deck 3" as in the third of several Engineering Decks, or could it be "Engineering, Deck 3" as in one of several Engineering stations, one of which happens to be located on Deck 3?

I think it could work either way since to me it is still an "Engineering Deck". Plus, it is ambiguous enough that it could be in either hull

 

[Christopher]

Given that the various writers were making up all these references without any consensus understanding of the ship's interior layout, I don't think there's any way to take them all literally as part of some consistent interior plan. I've found over the years that it's best to take all numbers in Star Trek with a grain of salt and be open to the idea that some of them are just mistakes or placeholders that were never meant to withstand scrutiny.

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^ Which is why I have no problem accepting the deck layouts from "The Making of Star Trek" and don't worry too much about throwaway lines in the scripts.

 

[blssdwlf]

By Grabthar's Hammer... we all definitely have our own take on TOS

 

[Robert Comsol]

"In The Naked Time Uhura reports that Sulu is running around in "level 2 corridor 3". If this "level 2" is "Engineering Level 2" (otherwise wouldn't she say "Deck 2") then there are a LOT of corridors crammed into the top of the pylon - impossibly so"

If "level 2" would refer to "Deck 2" there also would have been a lot of corridors just below the bridge.

The "level 2" reference neither fits "deck 2" or alphabetic prefix nomenclature and made me thinking, too.

What deck is the outer area of the saucer that is on the same deck level as deck 7 but has essentially no connection to the core of deck 7?
Because of the underside curvature of the saucer hull this outer ship's area can only be accessed via deck 6 and would rather seem to be the lower level of deck 6 or "level 2" than a part of deck 7 (and no need for Uhura to get into details if everybody aboard the ship understands what "level 2" refers to).

I can imagine Sulu having a great time driving the other crew members there in front of his rapier - they don't have that much evasion possibilities and space.

Bob

 

[Robert Comsol]

"So, where is B deck? Immediately beneath the bridge? Why would that be a good place to sabotage the impulse engines from? If it's some place closer to the impulse engines, then why would it be called "B deck"?"

If "H deck" refers to the hangar deck, than "B deck" could stand for Berth deck and there are good reasons for that: It's a naval term from the age of wooden sailing vessels, "a deck next below the gun deck, where the hammocks of the crew were swung."

According to the official description of the saucer decks, "the decks 4, 5, and 6 are primarily crew quarters, with some provisions for passenger quarters." The senior officers quarters are on deck 5 while the other crew members and junior officers have their quarters on deck 6 (the "Lower Decks" to speak with TNG) which would be the "Berth deck" or simply "B deck".

The impulse engines are at the stern of deck 6 or "B deck".

Bob

@ Christopher

You may trouble me for the salt, as I assume I have no further need for it.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Just wanted to pitch in about the windows on the pylons. They could be small work areas for people monitoring the engines; a tiny cubicle with a window.

 

[scotpens]

Given that the various writers were making up all these references without any consensus understanding of the ship's interior layout, I don't think there's any way to take them all literally as part of some consistent interior plan.

You're bringing up REALITY in this discussion? Heresy and blasphemy!

 

[Unicron]

Just wanted to pitch in about the windows on the pylons. They could be small work areas for people monitoring the engines; a tiny cubicle with a window.

Oompa-Loompas?

 

[TIN_MAN]

How many times was "level" used instead of "deck"? I'm thinking maybe “level” refers to pressure compartments, which might span multiple decks, whereas “decks” would be the actual number of horizontal surfaces one would walk on, so sometimes a deck and a level would be the same, but other times not?

This might have some utility in reconciling such things as guest quarters on level 2 with the long turbo lift ride from the bridge? Level 2 might actually correspond to deck 3 or 4, which would be a longer -perhaps more circuitous- turbo lift ride; the same reasoning goes for there being at least 3 corridors on that level as well?

Of course, the workability of this scheme depends on how many times level vs. deck is used and if there is any consistency to be made out of it all.