The Most Generic STAR TREK Episode...
- Thread starter Farscape One
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...and The Apple is tied with A Private Little War for The Worst Alien Wigs Awards in TOS.
I think "The Apple" is one of the Star Trek turkeys
Generic, I'm not sure about
Shit, definitely
Generic, I'm not sure about
Shit, definitely
You were the one who eliminated "The Apple!"
That only proves that I have a non-generic way of judging the genericness of an episode.
"The Apple" - ugh. A planet of hawt shexy people ruled by a computer whose ventilation shaft is in the form of a snake, which Kirk wants to nag to death the moment a chance exists. Eminently unoriginal, in fact, although exploding seed pods instead of the dope ones that give people all the peace and love and other drug-induced niceness from last season was comparatively novel. (Just don't ask George Harrison about his visit to Haight-Ashbury, drugs sorta ruined the place...)
And illogical: Spock crushes a bit of rock with his hand while marveling over the low density, flings it, and only after the flung rock lands does the rock fragment go all boom-boom due to the force of the pressure applied-- Okey dokey...
And more illogical, Spock states Vaal is "dead". No, it's a computer. Give it a shiny new AA battery and it'll sap the Enteprise's antimatter pods right on cue again.
Even Chekov's dialogue is an all-time low, and he's the guy that appealed to apparently both Soviets and Davy Jones fans. What next, Russia inwented wellies to gwet pweople wonto noocweelar wessels in Wenningwad swooner?
So I'm not sure what it's more of: Being generic or being a real 4-letter word. One thing I am sure of, the episode is arguably worse than "The Alternative Factor", which at least tries - I think...
Well, one other thing I could fathom: TNG's "Justice" is far more watchable and not because of the oiled up shexy people littered around it, because they're nowhere near as hawt as the buffet wandering around in "The Apple".
And illogical: Spock crushes a bit of rock with his hand while marveling over the low density, flings it, and only after the flung rock lands does the rock fragment go all boom-boom due to the force of the pressure applied-- Okey dokey...
And more illogical, Spock states Vaal is "dead". No, it's a computer. Give it a shiny new AA battery and it'll sap the Enteprise's antimatter pods right on cue again.
Even Chekov's dialogue is an all-time low, and he's the guy that appealed to apparently both Soviets and Davy Jones fans. What next, Russia inwented wellies to gwet pweople wonto noocweelar wessels in Wenningwad swooner?
So I'm not sure what it's more of: Being generic or being a real 4-letter word. One thing I am sure of, the episode is arguably worse than "The Alternative Factor", which at least tries - I think...
Well, one other thing I could fathom: TNG's "Justice" is far more watchable and not because of the oiled up shexy people littered around it, because they're nowhere near as hawt as the buffet wandering around in "The Apple".
"Friday's Child" is spared the award - There's nothing generic about this story; I'm amazed it didn't get knocked off the list sooner (I think it's nigh on a classic), but I'll endeavor to explain:
...From recollection as I saw this last autumn...
Friday's Child:
* has no computer running the joint so Kirk has to find something to do other than nagging it
* deals with another culture they've had limited experience with, for which Spock and Kirk - who aren't diplomats by default (think Ambassador Fox and others in previous episodes) - didn't remember all the nuances of during their study so when Ding-Dong-Security-Dude acts really dumb and gets killed while forgetting while they're there on the planet to begin with, they now have to splutter while in a diminished position to this new culture -- but it all helps set up the drama and sense of threat very palpably.
* it's a no-no to touch the leader's wife
* she doesn't want the child when the leader is murdered because the child would be seen fairly badly, never mind being competition for the throne (and for the (1960s, this is big stuff to go onto network TV)
* internal power struggle within the culture that Trek didn't use terribly often (the only other time I recall is "Balance of Terror" but not given the extra layer)
* McCoy bravely risks all to help her save the child she does not want
* Julie Newmar and Ben Gage really sell it with their performances, so does Kelley given what McCoy has to deal with
* the dramatic entanglement with the Klingons works rather well, despite being shoehorned into the script!
* we don't often get distress calls, legitimately or as decoy - which is very nicely handled
* who could hate the location filming at the most overused oversized rock pile on this planet, Vasquez Rocks(tm), since everyone goes there and almost never do people recognize the area due to its layout. Maybe once in Buck Rogers but that was a gaffe...
* reminds me of the bop pop song "Saturday's Child" from The Monkees, solely because of episode title name.
* "Friday's Child", from an old song, means "loving and giving", a subtle nod to what the child would likely bestow on the people. (A song that happens to be a cappella, noting the planet and civilization on it...
)
* Spock gets a hilarious line at the end of the episode once the baby's name is revealed
I just looked up the episode, why not:
* this is the first time Chekov falsely attributes something as a Russian invention. The trope gets very generic very quickly in later episodes, however...
* Roddenberry objected to the script having Eleen killing her baby. The story's reverence on life in general is part of Trek's more underlying themes so I can imagine why Roddenberry objected to the original script.
* DC did write Eleen as a strong female figure to fight against her society that was very narrow of its treatment of women (only as mothers/homemakers), which helped culminate in the original ending of her baby being sacrificed (which is remarkably strong and seems almost harsh (?) but I do wonder what else of the episode was changed at Roddenberry's behest. I'd be a treat to ever see the original draft before it all got changed. Would the story be more or less poignant? IMHO the finished product works but the original vision of the creator, Fontana, definitely wanted something a bit different. And, of course, the network may not have wanted the original ending for reasons similar or otherwise to Roddenberry's... again, for 1967, it was pretty big.
* Eleen is still strong but I suspect she was a lot different in the first draft.)
* the real reasons for "Capella" are stated
* Oh, Chekov ditched the Monkee wig by "The Apple". Thought he still had it on, oops...
...From recollection as I saw this last autumn...
Friday's Child:
* has no computer running the joint so Kirk has to find something to do other than nagging it
* deals with another culture they've had limited experience with, for which Spock and Kirk - who aren't diplomats by default (think Ambassador Fox and others in previous episodes) - didn't remember all the nuances of during their study so when Ding-Dong-Security-Dude acts really dumb and gets killed while forgetting while they're there on the planet to begin with, they now have to splutter while in a diminished position to this new culture -- but it all helps set up the drama and sense of threat very palpably.
* it's a no-no to touch the leader's wife
* she doesn't want the child when the leader is murdered because the child would be seen fairly badly, never mind being competition for the throne (and for the (1960s, this is big stuff to go onto network TV)
* internal power struggle within the culture that Trek didn't use terribly often (the only other time I recall is "Balance of Terror" but not given the extra layer)
* McCoy bravely risks all to help her save the child she does not want
* Julie Newmar and Ben Gage really sell it with their performances, so does Kelley given what McCoy has to deal with
* the dramatic entanglement with the Klingons works rather well, despite being shoehorned into the script!
* we don't often get distress calls, legitimately or as decoy - which is very nicely handled
* who could hate the location filming at the most overused oversized rock pile on this planet, Vasquez Rocks(tm), since everyone goes there and almost never do people recognize the area due to its layout. Maybe once in Buck Rogers but that was a gaffe...
* reminds me of the bop pop song "Saturday's Child" from The Monkees, solely because of episode title name.
* "Friday's Child", from an old song, means "loving and giving", a subtle nod to what the child would likely bestow on the people. (A song that happens to be a cappella, noting the planet and civilization on it...
)* Spock gets a hilarious line at the end of the episode once the baby's name is revealed
I just looked up the episode, why not:
* this is the first time Chekov falsely attributes something as a Russian invention. The trope gets very generic very quickly in later episodes, however...
* Roddenberry objected to the script having Eleen killing her baby. The story's reverence on life in general is part of Trek's more underlying themes so I can imagine why Roddenberry objected to the original script.
* DC did write Eleen as a strong female figure to fight against her society that was very narrow of its treatment of women (only as mothers/homemakers), which helped culminate in the original ending of her baby being sacrificed (which is remarkably strong and seems almost harsh (?) but I do wonder what else of the episode was changed at Roddenberry's behest. I'd be a treat to ever see the original draft before it all got changed. Would the story be more or less poignant? IMHO the finished product works but the original vision of the creator, Fontana, definitely wanted something a bit different. And, of course, the network may not have wanted the original ending for reasons similar or otherwise to Roddenberry's... again, for 1967, it was pretty big.
* Eleen is still strong but I suspect she was a lot different in the first draft.)
* the real reasons for "Capella" are stated
* Oh, Chekov ditched the Monkee wig by "The Apple". Thought he still had it on, oops...
There was a thread not too long ago in which I nominated "Friday's Child" for "best representative" episode of TOS.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/whi...nk-captures-it-the-most.298206/#post-12797026
It appears that I interpreted the question in that other thread somewhat differently from at least most who responded and/or from how it was intended. I was going for something more like "average," or better yet "median." "Right down the middle," as I put it. Not too bad, not too good. In other words, just what you'd expect when you tune in; might not be what you're hoping for, but on the other hand better than what you might get.
That's kinda like "generic," but on the other hand "generic" can also mean "bland." "Friday's Child" is very typical, but I wouldn't call it bland. YMMV.
P.S. "The Apple" is like a stereotypical cliché.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/whi...nk-captures-it-the-most.298206/#post-12797026
It appears that I interpreted the question in that other thread somewhat differently from at least most who responded and/or from how it was intended. I was going for something more like "average," or better yet "median." "Right down the middle," as I put it. Not too bad, not too good. In other words, just what you'd expect when you tune in; might not be what you're hoping for, but on the other hand better than what you might get.
That's kinda like "generic," but on the other hand "generic" can also mean "bland." "Friday's Child" is very typical, but I wouldn't call it bland. YMMV.
P.S. "The Apple" is like a stereotypical cliché.
...
P.S. "The Apple" is like a stereotypical cliché.
That's a pleonasm.
Not all clichés represent a stereotype; not all clichés come about by oversimplifying something.
Really? Can you give me three examples of clichés that don't qualify as oversimplifications?
A cliché is anything that has become trite or stale from overuse. Things become clichés by repetition. Stereotypes on the other hand are like oversimplifications or overgeneralizations.
The expression "all men die" is a cliché, but mortality isn't a stereotypical quality of humanity, it's neither an oversimplification nor an overgeneralization; in fact, it's universal. I can turn that example up to a higher volume: "Everybody kicks the bucket" is cliché-ridden, but it certainly doesn't express a stereotype, an oversimplification, or an overgeneralization.
"All Americans drive gas-guzzlers," now that overgeneralizes/oversimplifies the situation. It expresses at least two stereotypes, with the subtext of others, and it's well on its way to becoming a cliché, assuming it's not already.
I disagree, "All men die" is not a cliché. It's a truism, it's a fundamental truth but that's not what a clichè is. as for "everybody kicks the bucket" it's just another way of saying the same thing.
Clichès are widely held beliefs, often misguided and based on prejudice like:
Blonds are dumb.
Scientists are nerds.
People with glasses are awkward. (Think of Superman, when he puts his glasses on everybody sees him as some geeky awkward asocial.)
Those are clichés that we find in jokes, in movies (often B movies), or that are taken for granted by the public.
Truisms are not clichés. They are truths that are so obvious as to be boringly uninteresting.
A cliché is an expression that is overused. A stereotype is a belief about a group of people that may or may not be true with regard to an individual. They share similar concepts at heart but aren't the same.
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