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The most evil individual and most evil regime in Star Trek

If we define evil as being something that the person does for evil's sake, then no one is evil and the question is meaningless. Posters have to answer what _they_ consider to be evil, not what the villain considers to be evil.

I disagree. We all are well familiar of what humans consider 'evil'. The more interesting convo (IMHO) is the 'nature of evil' and the villains POV.

And on *that* note....the Cardassians were living on borrowed time anyway. The minute the Obsidian Order fired on their planet, their lives were forfeit.

Hell...by the standards set by some of the posters here, we could and SHOULD call the Q the most evil regime in the universe. Who are THEY to judge humanity? Why do the Dominion, Klingons and Romulans get a pass....but the entirety of humanity is forfeit...becauuuuuuse??? They're moving too far, too fast?

And yet the Q get a pass because everyone recognizes they operate on a level beyond our understanding, and hence are not 'evil'.
 
The Q are more chaotic neutral.

The female changeling gave that order on Cardassia because she thought she had to cripple all the enemy fleets to prevent them from going through the wormhole to wipe out her people in revenge. Based on her best knowledge it was necessary for self preservation and Odo corrected her.

It's true that no evil person goes around saying they are evil, but we can still make a pretty big distinction between killing out of necessity to survive and killing because it's fun or to gain profit or acquire new territory.

The Krenim guy wiped entire species out of existence because he thought maybe it'd make his race dominate the galaxy again and to bring back one woman who happened to be his wife. He holds the murder record and was not genuinely repentant.
 
The Q are more chaotic neutral.

The female changeling gave that order on Cardassia because she thought she had to cripple all the enemy fleets to prevent them from going through the wormhole to wipe out her people in revenge. Based on her best knowledge it was necessary for self preservation and Odo corrected her.
When was that explained? The people on Cardassia were not going to man any fleet going through the wormhole, and there was no message to ransom the population against such an invasion. Moreover, she had accurate information at that point and knew in what direction the alliance fleet was going. Had she feared an invasion of the Gamma Quadrant, she should not have ordered the Jem'Hadar and Breen ships to return to Cardassia, but have them continue to fight to weaken the Federation fleet. Indeed, the destruction of Lakarian City was clearly punishment, recommended by Weyoun and assented to by the Female Changeling.

ETA: What she says to Odo is that she does not want to show weakness, lest the Link be endangered. However, that has nothing to do with the genocide under way, and she clearly promises to make the alliance pay dearly, to make victory taste like defeat (paraphrasing her words).
 
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Wow this thread is getting deep. Which I am swiftly going to ignore.

I would say the Borg Queen, Khan - Benedict Cumberbatch version (So much more evil) and Possibly Armus; it's hard to tell without a bit more backstory.
 
Soran probably takes the "devil's food" cake, but Nagelum really gave me the creeps.

Regime, I'd have to say the Dominion, created genetically engineered killing machines, contemplated destroying Earth if they won just off of the possibility that a revolt would start there, created biological warfare plagues, the list goes on and on.
 
Soran probably takes the "devil's food" cake, but Nagelum really gave me the creeps.

Regime, I'd have to say the Dominion, created genetically engineered killing machines, contemplated destroying Earth if they won just off of the possibility that a revolt would start there, created biological warfare plagues, the list goes on and on.


I'm amazed at the number of Soran votes here. Not only were his motives among the least evil of villains, but even by intended body count measurement, he wouldn't be that high(Shinzon, Nero, female changeling, etc.)


Heck, if you're going to say Soran, why not Kevin Uxbridge, too? Uxbridge killed millions, commited genocide, and did it out of anger and intentionally, even if he later regretted it.
 
... I'm amazed at the number of Soran votes here. Not only were his motives among the least evil of villains, but even by intended body count measurement, he wouldn't be that high (Shinzon, Nero, female changeling, etc.)
Just to note, each of the examples given for the intended body count measurement had an army, a crew (with superior fire power), or a fleet backing them up. Though the Klingons helped Soran, they were only helping to get the weapon he was creating.

Soran personally destroyed Veridian IV for self gain.
 
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The Borg are always brutal and not willing to reason. Gul Dukat and his pah-wraiths were pretty evil

Sphere Builders and the Dominion were also terrible.
 
The tend of this thread seems to be to say "selfishness=evil." I think that's a little too simple. Selfishness is not always motivated by evil. It's okay to be "selfish" sometimes. But when selfishness kills or otherwise harms other people, then, yeah, it's pretty evil.

Annorax was evil. He screwed up lots of timelines because he lost something. The Borg are definitely evil. They consider people and technology as disposable tools. Both good examples of truly selfish evil.
 
why not Kevin Uxbridge, too? Uxbridge killed millions, commited genocide, and did it out of anger and intentionally, even if he later regretted it.

Uxbridge acted on the spur of the moment. The ultimate "crime of passion", as it were. He was clearly emotionally compromised. And who's to say his intent really was to exterminate the Husnock race? He may not have even known the true extent of his own powers.
 
Soran probably takes the "devil's food" cake, but Nagelum really gave me the creeps.

Regime, I'd have to say the Dominion, created genetically engineered killing machines, contemplated destroying Earth if they won just off of the possibility that a revolt would start there, created biological warfare plagues, the list goes on and on.


I'm amazed at the number of Soran votes here. Not only were his motives among the least evil of villains, but even by intended body count measurement, he wouldn't be that high(Shinzon, Nero, female changeling, etc.)


Heck, if you're going to say Soran, why not Kevin Uxbridge, too? Uxbridge killed millions, commited genocide, and did it out of anger and intentionally, even if he later regretted it.

Soran killed Kirk. Can't get more star trek-evil than that. Also:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JkH7QjWkN2o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Soran probably takes the "devil's food" cake, but Nagelum really gave me the creeps.

Regime, I'd have to say the Dominion, created genetically engineered killing machines, contemplated destroying Earth if they won just off of the possibility that a revolt would start there, created biological warfare plagues, the list goes on and on.


I'm amazed at the number of Soran votes here. Not only were his motives among the least evil of villains, but even by intended body count measurement, he wouldn't be that high(Shinzon, Nero, female changeling, etc.)


Heck, if you're going to say Soran, why not Kevin Uxbridge, too? Uxbridge killed millions, commited genocide, and did it out of anger and intentionally, even if he later regretted it.

Soran killed Kirk. Can't get more star trek-evil than that. Also:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JkH7QjWkN2o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Soran damaged the bridge. The fall killed Kirk. :p
 
(Damn this post turned out way longer than I anticipated. I don't blame anyone for skipping it over. :lol:)

This is kind of impossible to choose because some of these individuals or regimes are equally evil, but just in varying degrees. Some never murdered billions, but are still pretty evil (Kivas Fajo) and others wiped out many (Female Founder). I hate to be the irritating moral relativist, but I am presupposing that we are looking at evil through the standards of the Federation?

I guess Dukat would fit that standard considering that he assisted in facilitating a holocaust of the Bajorans and ran an infamous labor "camp" equivalent (Terok Nor). He cheats on his wife and forces Bajoran woman to sleep with him in exchange for protecting their families. Which is putting them in an impossible position. He is vain-driven, egotistical. Dukat feels no remorse for what he did on Bajor, but instead actually feels Bajorans should be grateful to him. If he could, he would restart the Occupation of Bajor in a heartbeat. Even when he harassed the Federation, his ego built up this phony rivalry between him and Sisko. He felt that his Starfleet adversaries should respect him for being a "worthy adversary". Then he sold out his entire species' freedom and sided with aliens that told Garak that one day all Cardassians would be dead. He did it so that he could gain ultimate power (although he claimed to do it for Cardassia). Would you look at that? What is good for Cardassia coincides with making him "emperor" of the Cardassian Union and any Alpha Quadrant crumbs left over by the Dominion! When that didn't work out, he manipulated a cult of Bajorans and turned himself into some "prophet". He then sided with the Pah-Wraiths so he could be the "emissary" and consume the entire Alpha Quadrant in flames.

There is an urge to kind of empathize with him because he got so much character development. He was also wonderfully portrayed by Marc Alaimo. He also had much more sympathetic moments than say the Borg Queen or Soren. But Dukat still seems pretty evil. I will say that tons of other "villains" throughout Trek do match him, though. He just happens to be my vote. :P

As for the most evil regime? Let me preface this by saying I am not trolling or trying to annoy anyone but...

The United Federation of Planets is my vote. The dream that became a reality. Seems oddly...Orwellian to me. Every human from Earth (I'm not talking about random drifters in space) are all dedicated to the single-minded objective of the betterment of Mankind. This sounds great on paper, but the execution has created an assimilated species without nanoprobes. Even the weird zombie-like tone of voice they drift into when they say "we work to better ourselves...and the rest of humanity..." is just weird. I get that we rid ourselves of vanity, hatred, and various -isms that divide us a species. Wonderful. But is individuality an "ism" that needs to be quashed? Seems like it generally frowned upon and you're meant to be a good little Utopian. Is it dangerous because it can potentially lead to bad emotions/actions? Seems like if you're not onboard with this "let's all get along with the galaxy" mantra, then you're some evil monster (see all the so-called evil admirals through Trek lore).

- I'll grant you that the humans in the 23rd century acted a lot closer to us than the ones in the TNG-era.

Picard lectures Offenhouse that humanity is no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. The "challenge" is to improve yourself. Whatever that means. But part of the problem with this enlightenment in Trek is it created a wall for our self-improvement. When a species believes they've reached the apex of civilization, they feel they have little to nothing to learn from others. In fact, throughout Trek, humans constantly deride, mock, and thumb their noses at other cultures that remind them a little too much of 21st century humans. They mock Klingons as barbaric, Ferengi as greedy, Romulans as sneaky, Vulcans as boring, etc. Granted they do have those characteristics, "enlightened" humans seem a bit too snobby for my tastes. Tuvok even calls humans out for this in one episode.

They also enslave A.I. (EMH to mine dilithium?) And were going to rip Data apart. This never made sense. He was sentient enough to join Starfleet, but not sentient enough to have the right to choose his fate?

They "assimilate" worlds too, but they're just more devious about it. Klingons called the Federation a "homo sapiens only club". Yeah...I can see why. It looks like once you're inducted into the Federation family, you get your marching orders from Earth. And they didn't have to fire a single shot. The Terran Empire must be jealous...

They have incredible technology to save billions of "primitive" aliens but opt not to do so because of the Prime Directive. And because they worship that old fallacy that "one day a Hitler or Khan Singh might pop out from the species we saved". Yes...and so could a Leonardo de Vinci, Gandhi, or Cochrane. The Prime Directive is ridiculous and I see why so many SF officers ignore it.

I also noticed there was a...heated...debate on Section 31 being completely separate from the Federation. No they are not. They are an arm of the Federation. They collude with non-members because they understand that Section 31's actions, while dirty, are needed (see Admiral Ross). Bashir tells O'Brien that he counted dozens upon dozens of people that had to have been involved in creating the virus. That means people outside of Section 31 helped, because deep down inside they wanted to stop the Dominion by any means necessary. Notice when this became public, there was no real outcry. AND the Federation Council votes to abet genocide. Odo calls it a "tidy arrangement". What happened to "enlightenment"? If you argue "that's different, it was war." Ok, fine. Well Section 31 says that all the time too. That they're fighting for the survival of the UFP in every action they make. Yet...they're considered "villains" and the Federation Council is not. Huh.

Their actions with the Maquis? They screwed over those settlers. Even if you argue the settlers should have moved for the greater good, what is to stop the Federation from making them move again? Settlers poor their blood, sweat, and tears to build a colony and the UFP just swoops in cause of a treaty and forces you to uproot...

Don't even get me started on how they attract all these really screwed up aliens to Earth. While I agree that comes with the territory of exploring the unknown, I do wonder if civilians get a vote on Starfleet's actions or not.

I don't think the UFP is pure evil in a traditional sense, but they definitely strike me as a group that sacrifices liberty for security. But in this case, they sacrifice their vaunted morals for security. They're kind of scary because often they act under the cloak of being good and noble. That makes it really difficult to combat.

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
 
^Great post! I agree with your sentiments about Dukat. He absolutely believed that Bajor should have been grateful to him for his actions during the Occupation. What he failed to realize is that one isn't a hero if he merely puts out fires that he (or his ilk) starts.

By the time Dukat became Prefect, the Occupation had already been going on for more than four decades. His policies toward the Bajorans may have been more lenient than those of his peers, but that doesn't mean that their lives were better as a result. People were still dying. Families were still suffering. Dukat's troops were brutalizing innocent people every day because they could- and they shouldn't have been on Bajor in the first place!

I was almost relieved when Dukat finally admitted to Sisko in "Waltz" that he "should have killed every last Bajoran," not because he said it, but because he was finally being honest about how he felt- both with Sisko and with himself. Of course, the writers undid that entire scene by having him later vying for Bajoran immortality by leading the cultists. He never understood why Bajor didn't approve of him, nor could he accept that Kira would never have loved someone who's hands were stained with the blood of her race.

--Sran
 
^Evil might have many definitions, but I am certain that it is not a synonym for bad, corrupt, hypocritical, or fictional.
 
^Great post! I agree with your sentiments about Dukat. He absolutely believed that Bajor should have been grateful to him for his actions during the Occupation. What he failed to realize is that one isn't a hero if he merely puts out fires that he (or his ilk) starts.

By the time Dukat became Prefect, the Occupation had already been going on for more than four decades. His policies toward the Bajorans may have been more lenient than those of his peers, but that doesn't mean that their lives were better as a result. People were still dying. Families were still suffering. Dukat's troops were brutalizing innocent people every day because they could- and they shouldn't have been on Bajor in the first place!

I was almost relieved when Dukat finally admitted to Sisko in "Waltz" that he "should have killed every last Bajoran," not because he said it, but because he was finally being honest about how he felt- both with Sisko and with himself. Of course, the writers undid that entire scene by having him later vying for Bajoran immortality by leading the cultists. He never understood why Bajor didn't approve of him, nor could he accept that Kira would never have loved someone who's hands were stained with the blood of her race.

--Sran

Thank you! I too agree that it was a nice, albeit rare, moment from Dukat when he dropped his "victim" pretense and admitted that he hated Bajorans and wanted them wiped out.

I am curious....why do you say the writers undid that scene with his later season 7 plot line?

^Evil might have many definitions, but I am certain that it is not a synonym for bad, corrupt, hypocritical, or fictional.

I'm going to assume that this post is an answer to mine? Sorry in advance if it isn't.

Evil is NOT a synonym for bad? Huh...?

Evil is not a synonym for corrupt? Well...that depends if ones corruption hurts another group. The victims would argue the corrupt are evil.

Evil is not a synonym for hypocritical. What if a persons hypocrisy led to another persons suffering? The Federation was hypocritical in looking the other way on genocide of the Founders. I'm sure from Odo's point of view, that was evil.

Evil is not a synonym for fictional? Huh?

I'll admit I used a lot of sweeping generalizations and perhaps my argument is better suited to say "Earth" instead of the entirety of the UFP. But Earth is part of the UFP...

For the record, I'm not saying individuals in the UFP are "evil". Picard, Sisko, Kirk, etc. aren't evil. Just the institution they are a part of.

Nor am I saying the UFP is the more evil than the Dominion, Borg, Klingons, etc. I know the question of the OP was who is the MOST evil regime, but that's kind of hard to narrow down. Like I said about the most evil individual, a lot of these villains are equally evil but in varying degrees. All the posts here prove that since everyone is making a good argument that so and so is evil, but then again so is this other so and so.

My point on saying the UFP was evil is the insidiousness of it. I'm not arguing that mustach-twirling admirals are hiding in an underground lair with plans to rule the universe! I'm saying the UFP clearly anticipates a time when the UFP is stretched from one corner to the other in the Milky Way Galaxy. No one sees anything odd about that?
 
I'm saying the UFP clearly anticipates a time when the UFP is stretched from one corner to the other in the Milky Way Galaxy. No one sees anything odd about that
That is a major stretch. You have may no demonstration of an intention to do harm. Imperialism involved territorial expansion at the expense of either indegenous or sovereign peoples. Although there have been corrupt officials wjo sought shortcuts in the application process, admittance in the Federation has always been the choice of a sovereign people.
 
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