Game The Most Disliked Third Season Episode
- Thread starter Sakonna
- Start date
Saving "Extinction". Saw it just a day or so ago and I don't think it deserves to be with the other remaining episodes, well at least not with the TOS ones.
TOS: "And The Children Shall Lead"
TOS: "Elaan Of Troyius"
TOS: "The Mark Of Gideon"
TOS: "The Lights Of Zetar"
TNG: "The Price"
TOS: "And The Children Shall Lead"
TOS: "Elaan Of Troyius"
TOS: "The Mark Of Gideon"
TOS: "The Lights Of Zetar"
TNG: "The Price"
Saving "The Price".
It's slightly better than the remaining ones on the list.
TOS: "And The Children Shall Lead"
TOS: "Elaan Of Troyius"
TOS: "The Mark Of Gideon"
TOS: "The Lights Of Zetar"
It's slightly better than the remaining ones on the list.
TOS: "And The Children Shall Lead"
TOS: "Elaan Of Troyius"
TOS: "The Mark Of Gideon"
TOS: "The Lights Of Zetar"
Klutzy and heavyhanded, perhaps,
at least brings up the not-often explored trope of overpopulation. TOIS season 3, in some ways, was using anything no matter how seemingly taboo. Just not always to ideal effect... or good effect... or any effect other than "This is bad and in some ways it shouldn't have to be" effect.
As usual, season 3's need to do bottle episodes necessitates some creativity - this time it's a group of aliens who managed to get their hands on the Enterprise's schematics and simulate with complete accurac--
Ugh, I can't even finish that bit, and the only point of that "trap" was to get Kirk into the plot.
Despite some direct ribbing of various things, the one thing the episode was sidestepping was sexually transmitted diseases. Not just because of 60s censorship standards, but there is more than enough left open to make some nifty conclusions. Seriously; the Gideon leader wants Kirk to infect his daughter with a form of cooties that he has immunity to but nobody on Gideon does, with the belief that said cooties would cull the entire population - and without once thinking "Duuuuuuuuuurh, will this affect us in the council chamber too?"
The story operates around the asinine idea that everyone has boinked and oinked so much that every traipse-able patch of surface is now taken up by the populace. The underlying reason that nobody dies is because their organs and cells regenerate also resolves the teensy plot point of Kirk infecting everyone on the planet to kill them because they'll get a fever, lay down, flame up just like Doctor Who (so stand around and whip out that big bag of marshmallows and twigs - mmmmm, toasted marshmallow
) , and then pop right back to life to entertain some more. (Note to self: "Day of the Dove" did the same trope of preventing death just a tad tons more creatively...)
To say nothing of useless things like crops and water and foodstuffs and things, but if their bodies magically heal and never die then shoving anything down their throat is pretty much a pointless thing to do... yet they go right on breeding, which is equally pointless. (I'd say "fruitless" except they're more than fruitful on this weird little planet... and don't tell me that the Ba'ku are on the other side, either...) This story has no real focal point or center of gravitas. It's hard to take enough of it seriously. At least the episode doesn't play it up for laughs out of a sense of clumsy self-awareness.
The Tribble peddler, played with elated jubilance by Stanley Adams, co-wrote this episode. He also wandered around as a gigantic carrot in "Lost in Space"'s arguably best-ever episode. I sometimes wish he took more notes while walking around as Bugs Bunny's next meal.
One of the council members returned to the show, in TNG's 11001001 as Cmdr Quinteros - it's not a big role, but it's a far better one.
All having been said, I didn't expect some nifty camera angles used when filming in the Gideon council chamber, making use of the glass desk and a carefully-angled camera. This is pretty cool and adds rather a lot to a script that's largely making a mess of its core theme (population). Like or dislike or anything else about the episode, they still eked out enough time to have a modicum of creativity, rather than just pointing four cameras across the stage and announce "Action" as if they're watching a painted desert get drier.
What's left, oh dear... :
TOS: "And The Children Shall Lead"
TOS: "Elaan Of Troyius"
TOS: "The Mark Of Gideon"
at least brings up the not-often explored trope of overpopulation. TOIS season 3, in some ways, was using anything no matter how seemingly taboo. Just not always to ideal effect... or good effect... or any effect other than "This is bad and in some ways it shouldn't have to be" effect.
As usual, season 3's need to do bottle episodes necessitates some creativity - this time it's a group of aliens who managed to get their hands on the Enterprise's schematics and simulate with complete accurac--
Ugh, I can't even finish that bit, and the only point of that "trap" was to get Kirk into the plot.
Despite some direct ribbing of various things, the one thing the episode was sidestepping was sexually transmitted diseases. Not just because of 60s censorship standards, but there is more than enough left open to make some nifty conclusions. Seriously; the Gideon leader wants Kirk to infect his daughter with a form of cooties that he has immunity to but nobody on Gideon does, with the belief that said cooties would cull the entire population - and without once thinking "Duuuuuuuuuurh, will this affect us in the council chamber too?"
The story operates around the asinine idea that everyone has boinked and oinked so much that every traipse-able patch of surface is now taken up by the populace. The underlying reason that nobody dies is because their organs and cells regenerate also resolves the teensy plot point of Kirk infecting everyone on the planet to kill them because they'll get a fever, lay down, flame up just like Doctor Who (so stand around and whip out that big bag of marshmallows and twigs - mmmmm, toasted marshmallow
) , and then pop right back to life to entertain some more. (Note to self: "Day of the Dove" did the same trope of preventing death To say nothing of useless things like crops and water and foodstuffs and things, but if their bodies magically heal and never die then shoving anything down their throat is pretty much a pointless thing to do... yet they go right on breeding, which is equally pointless. (I'd say "fruitless" except they're more than fruitful on this weird little planet... and don't tell me that the Ba'ku are on the other side, either...) This story has no real focal point or center of gravitas. It's hard to take enough of it seriously. At least the episode doesn't play it up for laughs out of a sense of clumsy self-awareness.
The Tribble peddler, played with elated jubilance by Stanley Adams, co-wrote this episode. He also wandered around as a gigantic carrot in "Lost in Space"'s arguably best-ever episode. I sometimes wish he took more notes while walking around as Bugs Bunny's next meal.
One of the council members returned to the show, in TNG's 11001001 as Cmdr Quinteros - it's not a big role, but it's a far better one.
All having been said, I didn't expect some nifty camera angles used when filming in the Gideon council chamber, making use of the glass desk and a carefully-angled camera. This is pretty cool and adds rather a lot to a script that's largely making a mess of its core theme (population). Like or dislike or anything else about the episode, they still eked out enough time to have a modicum of creativity, rather than just pointing four cameras across the stage and announce "Action" as if they're watching a painted desert get drier.
What's left, oh dear... :
TOS: "And The Children Shall Lead"
TOS: "Elaan Of Troyius"
Well, let me put it this way: one of these episodes has a portly lawyer costumed in a shower curtain, and he couldn't have acted his way out of a paper curtain. (Seriously, who thought this was a good idea?) Plus a group of child actors so flat they border on "uncanny valley."
The other is still crap, but it does have France Nguyen. She plays a brat, but at least she knows how to do that.
TOS: "And The Children Shall Lead"
The other is still crap, but it does have France Nguyen. She plays a brat, but at least she knows how to do that.
TOS: "And The Children Shall Lead"
And a more worthy winner, hard to picture.
i kinda hoped for spock's brain
At least "SPOCK'S BRAIN" had a few good scenes, like the bridge where they were discussing which planet to try.
"AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD" has a lawyer in a shower curtain with children jacking off the air.
You tell me which is better?
"AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD" has a lawyer in a shower curtain with children jacking off the air.
You tell me which is better?
Sorry, Spock's Brain is one of my favourites. I know that objectively it's bad but it's just so fun and bizarre.
thought so - after you saved it
there was a moment from which on i didn't offer any more saves
It's definitely bad, but Spock's Brain has an enjoyable element to it, like a B-movie. I'm not sure if that's what they were going for when it was originally conceived, but it helps on rewatch. 
I'm glad that And The Children Shall Lead won as it is truly terrible, on all counts. On my current rewatch, I forgot about how much I would want to hit the fast forward.
ATCSL, The Way to Eden, and The Lights of Zetar are my bottom three for TOS S3.
I'm glad that And The Children Shall Lead won as it is truly terrible, on all counts. On my current rewatch, I forgot about how much I would want to hit the fast forward.
ATCSL, The Way to Eden, and The Lights of Zetar are my bottom three for TOS S3.
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I recall seeing a deleted scene; the lady child actor was pretty good in it. She went on to be in "The Paul Lynde Show", the voice of Lucy of "Peanuts", and I vaguely recall a sci-fi show with James Doohan as well. I don't remember much of the guy child actor did an episode of the Brady Bunch where he put his ciggies into Greg's coat pocket, with hilarious hijnks ensuing, but he didn't do much acting afterward (?). But he did invent a musical instrument used by Jerry Goldsmith in "The Motion Picture"...
Woohoo, found it!
But, yeah, child guy and lawyer dudes' acting were pretty bland at best, or awful at worst. Wearing a modified shower curtain with the cherry pickin' poison ivy motif did him no favors, either... prior to post-production where the cherry pickin's would be glowing puke green, of course, but even then... Makes me think of the stage full of actors who have to do scenes requiring overlaid effects, saying their dialogue convincingly, imagining what sort of effects might be applied, or else nothing would get filmed due to everyone corpsing loudly on set. Which in the case of "Children Shall Lead" might not have been such a bad thing... there's no way "Way to Eden" was anywhere near as bad as this one...
France Nuyen didn't have the best role ever made, but - dang - she made that role (and a largely sub-par episode) watchable with a strong performance. Not unlike Jessie Lawrence Ferguson elevating Lutan above and beyond what's scribbled in "Code of Honor", and both those stories have a lot of cringe in them... I'd have saved "Troius" solely because of the espionage subplot with Kryton's awesome shoulder pads (and the rest of him too); the main battle tried to be actioney but given the size of outer space and a battle happening at up to warp six as if they're in a small room and trying to duck quickly - that doesn't fly... granted, they had her guards in revealing outfits as well; 60s Trek always had William Ware Theiss going out of his way to save on costuming budget by using as little cloth and as much (and far-cheaper) double-sided tape as possible for women so it's about time men got the same treatment. I don't think TOS showed as much man leg in any episode prior... whether this was just a TOS thing or a 60s thing; from what I'd seen in other shows of the era, having as much man leg shown was probably controversial back then too...
The part I always am fascinated by in "Children Shall Lead" is when they make all the kids cry about murdering their parents at the end, and then the "Exciting Triumph!" music kicks in. It's so insane to hear this "happy victory" music mixed with the sounds of a mob of sobbing children realizing they've orphaned themselves.
A worthy winner!
Next one will be up in a day or two. Probably a new list: "The Most Disliked Bajoran Episode"
A worthy winner!
Next one will be up in a day or two. Probably a new list: "The Most Disliked Bajoran Episode"
Sorry for the delay, crazy work week and then I lost my home internet for a bit!
And my inability to stream left me unable to rewatch and resolve the last few items on the planned "Bajoran Episode" list, so instead I'll next post "The Most Disliked Episode Written By Gene Roddenberry." Hope to see you all there!
I didn't even realize "And The Children Shall Lead" has now joined the double-win club...
MOST DISLIKED WINNERS, 2022
MAJEL BARRETT APPEARANCE: TOS, Season 3: "And The Children Shall Lead"
3RD SEASON: TOS, Season 3: "And The Children Shall Lead"
'HEY, THIS PLANET IS JUST LIKE EARTH!': TOS, Season 3: "Plato's Stepchildren"
ROMULAN: TAS, Season 2: "The Practical Joker"
DIRECTOR WINRICH KOLBE: TNG, Season 5: "The Masterpiece Society"
5TH SEASON: TNG, Season 5: "The Perfect Mate"
ROMANCE-OF-THE-WEEK: TNG, Season 6: "Aquiel"
KLINGON: TNG, Season 6: "Birthright, Part II"
DIRECTOR CLIFF BOLE: TNG, Season 7: "Liaisons"
DIRECTOR LES LANDAU: TNG, Season 7: "Dark Page"
WRITER RONALD D. MOORE: TNG, Season 7: "Journey's End"
7TH SEASON: TNG, Season 7: "Firstborn"
HOLIDAY: DS9, Season 3: "Meridian"
CARDASSIAN: DS9, Season 6: "Sons & Daughters"
MIRROR UNIVERSE: DS9, Season 6: "Resurrection"
FERENGI: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
COMEDIC/LIGHT-HEARTED: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
6TH SEASON: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
JEFFREY COMBS APPEARANCE: DS9, Season 7: "The Emperor's New Cloak"
WRITER JOE MENOSKY: VOY, Season 5: "The Fight"
HOLODECK: VOY, Season 6: "Spirit Folk"
MAQUIS: VOY, Season 7: "Repression"
BARCLAY: VOY, Season 7: "Inside Man"
2-PART/DOUBLE EPISODE: VOY, Season 7: "Flesh And Blood"
RECYCLED TITLE: ENT, Season 1: "Terra Nova"
VAUGHN ARMSTRONG APPEARANCE: ENT, Season 2: "Shockwave, Part II"
DIRECTOR DAVID LIVINGSTON: ENT, Season 3: "Harbinger"
SEASON PREMIERE: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part I"
EVERY 47TH RELEASE: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part I"
VISIT TO EARTH'S PAST: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part II"
HOLLYWOOD REPORTER'S 100 BEST EPS: ENT, Season 4: "Home"
DIRECTOR ALLAN KROEKER: ENT, Season 4: "These Are The Voyages..."
TIME TRAVEL/TRAVELER/LOOP/ANOMALY: DIS, Season 2: "Perpetual Infinity"
FEMALE DIRECTOR: DIS, Season 2: "Perpetual Infinity"
SEASON FINALE ANTAGONIST: DIS, Season 2: Control
DIRECTOR JONATHAN FRAKES: DIS, Season 3: "There Is A Tide..."
47TH EPISODES: DIS, Season 4: "The Examples"
4TH SEASON: DIS, Season 4: "The Galactic Barrier"
4TH & 7TH EPISODES: ST, Season 2: "Ask Not"
TREK NOIR: PIC, "Broken Pieces"
CAST CROSSOVER: PIC, "Et In Arcardia Ego, Part 1"
GUINAN: PIC, "Monsters"
BORG/XB: PIC, "Mercy"
Q: PIC, "Mercy"
COUPLE: LD, Carol Freeman/Admiral Husband
REGULAR CHARACTER: PRO, Drednok
TOTAL SHOW WINS
SNW & Movies: 0 wins
TAS, ST, LD & PRO: 1 win each
TOS: 3 wins
VOY & PIC: 5 wins each
DIS: 6 wins
DS9: 7 wins
TNG & ENT: 8 wins each
And my inability to stream left me unable to rewatch and resolve the last few items on the planned "Bajoran Episode" list, so instead I'll next post "The Most Disliked Episode Written By Gene Roddenberry." Hope to see you all there!
I didn't even realize "And The Children Shall Lead" has now joined the double-win club...
MOST DISLIKED WINNERS, 2022
MAJEL BARRETT APPEARANCE: TOS, Season 3: "And The Children Shall Lead"
3RD SEASON: TOS, Season 3: "And The Children Shall Lead"
'HEY, THIS PLANET IS JUST LIKE EARTH!': TOS, Season 3: "Plato's Stepchildren"
ROMULAN: TAS, Season 2: "The Practical Joker"
DIRECTOR WINRICH KOLBE: TNG, Season 5: "The Masterpiece Society"
5TH SEASON: TNG, Season 5: "The Perfect Mate"
ROMANCE-OF-THE-WEEK: TNG, Season 6: "Aquiel"
KLINGON: TNG, Season 6: "Birthright, Part II"
DIRECTOR CLIFF BOLE: TNG, Season 7: "Liaisons"
DIRECTOR LES LANDAU: TNG, Season 7: "Dark Page"
WRITER RONALD D. MOORE: TNG, Season 7: "Journey's End"
7TH SEASON: TNG, Season 7: "Firstborn"
HOLIDAY: DS9, Season 3: "Meridian"
CARDASSIAN: DS9, Season 6: "Sons & Daughters"
MIRROR UNIVERSE: DS9, Season 6: "Resurrection"
FERENGI: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
COMEDIC/LIGHT-HEARTED: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
6TH SEASON: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
JEFFREY COMBS APPEARANCE: DS9, Season 7: "The Emperor's New Cloak"
WRITER JOE MENOSKY: VOY, Season 5: "The Fight"
HOLODECK: VOY, Season 6: "Spirit Folk"
MAQUIS: VOY, Season 7: "Repression"
BARCLAY: VOY, Season 7: "Inside Man"
2-PART/DOUBLE EPISODE: VOY, Season 7: "Flesh And Blood"
RECYCLED TITLE: ENT, Season 1: "Terra Nova"
VAUGHN ARMSTRONG APPEARANCE: ENT, Season 2: "Shockwave, Part II"
DIRECTOR DAVID LIVINGSTON: ENT, Season 3: "Harbinger"
SEASON PREMIERE: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part I"
EVERY 47TH RELEASE: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part I"
VISIT TO EARTH'S PAST: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part II"
HOLLYWOOD REPORTER'S 100 BEST EPS: ENT, Season 4: "Home"
DIRECTOR ALLAN KROEKER: ENT, Season 4: "These Are The Voyages..."
TIME TRAVEL/TRAVELER/LOOP/ANOMALY: DIS, Season 2: "Perpetual Infinity"
FEMALE DIRECTOR: DIS, Season 2: "Perpetual Infinity"
SEASON FINALE ANTAGONIST: DIS, Season 2: Control
DIRECTOR JONATHAN FRAKES: DIS, Season 3: "There Is A Tide..."
47TH EPISODES: DIS, Season 4: "The Examples"
4TH SEASON: DIS, Season 4: "The Galactic Barrier"
4TH & 7TH EPISODES: ST, Season 2: "Ask Not"
TREK NOIR: PIC, "Broken Pieces"
CAST CROSSOVER: PIC, "Et In Arcardia Ego, Part 1"
GUINAN: PIC, "Monsters"
BORG/XB: PIC, "Mercy"
Q: PIC, "Mercy"
COUPLE: LD, Carol Freeman/Admiral Husband
REGULAR CHARACTER: PRO, Drednok
TOTAL SHOW WINS
SNW & Movies: 0 wins
TAS, ST, LD & PRO: 1 win each
TOS: 3 wins
VOY & PIC: 5 wins each
DIS: 6 wins
DS9: 7 wins
TNG & ENT: 8 wins each
It's a mixed bag, but not often told where this third species wants to analyze these strange beings from other planets to get an understanding of (their perception of) good versus evil is another that had some potential. It still ends up flatter than it should have been, but the fun adventure side still held up and who doesn't like "HELP MEEE SPOCK!"?
Also, the episode also names the Klingon deity "Kahless" and it's been awesome ever since:
IMHO, TNG was best when they had other characters who weren't part of the bridge clique - it not only balances things out, it shows a subtle
Also, more photos from the set where I attended filming, on the parallel world I vacationed on last month:
"Brain and brain, what is brain?"
"Spock's Brain" should be saved from last place on the strength of that line alone!
Plus the fact that the line was delivered by Marj Dusay (seen also on Hogan's Heroes and other classic TV series).
Spock's Brain is Campy as all heck. I mean Remote control Spock is dumb but fun dumb. "and the Children Shall lead" is just bad bad bad
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