The Most Disliked Episode of DS9 - Season 6...

[Bad Thoughts]

Vic annoys me in a lot of other appearances, but I like the "His Way" intro. I was doing a DS9 rewatch a few years ago with a friend, and we did a 5-episode block of "Change Of Heart", "Wrongs Darker...", "Inquisition", "Pale Moonlight", and then "His Way." And that was suddenly how I came to appreciate what this episode had to offer, as a boozy late-night epilogue after several hours dwelling in morally compromised darkness.

It works well as a respite from the heaviness of the previous episodes. Although maybe Vic could have been a Section 31 agent ...

 

[Seven of Five]

Now the majority of the meat of the season has gone, I have to save One Little Ship. It's so much fun. Worf's poem at the end finishes it off nicely, as well as Odo and Quark playing a trick on O'Brien and Bashir about not being the right size.

RESURRECTION
STATISTICAL PROBABILITIES
THE RECKONING
PROFIT AND LACE
TIME'S ORPHAN
THE SOUND OF HER VOICE

 

[Sakonna]

I don't mind "Resurrection." Mirror Bareil is a clever way to shortcut to a ROTW with actual heft and emotional stakes, which is a hard thing to achieve.

STATISTICAL PROBABILITIES
THE RECKONING
PROFIT AND LACE
TIME'S ORPHAN
THE SOUND OF HER VOICE

 

[Farscape One]

While not the best Bashir episode, "STATISTICAL PROBABILITIES" does continue to stay true his moral center on wanting to save lives. And the Jack Pack is a fun diversion.


THE RECKONING
PROFIT AND LACE
TIME'S ORPHAN
THE SOUND OF HER VOICE

 

[Seven of Five]

The Sound of Her Voice isn't the best episode, but it's still very effective in what it sets out to do.

THE RECKONING
PROFIT AND LACE
TIME'S ORPHAN

 

[Terok Nor]

Guess I'll save The Reckoning. Winn's actions in this episode directly led to Jadzia's death and Sisko's final fate.

PROFIT AND LACE
TIME'S ORPHAN

 

[BigDaveX]

Well, I suppose I'll do the inevitable and hand last place to Profit and Lace. Time's Orphan would probably have worked better as the TNG episode it was originally conceived as, but it isn't anywhere close to being as downright awful as Profit and Lace.

 

[Terok Nor]

I found PROFIT AND LACE funny at the time and some of it is still humorous but it was such an offensive episode in retrospect.

TIME'S ORPHAN is decent. Probably should've kept Molly as a teenager but maybe Rosalind Chao wasn't available for future episodes in which she'd be needed to interact with Molly.

 

[Discofan]

I missed this thread.

Profit And Lace is definitely bottom of the barrel, no argument there.

 

[Sakonna]

A perfect final two for me -- "Time's Orphan" I absolutely can't stand, outside of enjoying a return appearance from Keiko after such a long absence.

I found PROFIT AND LACE funny at the time and some of it is still humorous but it was such an offensive episode in retrospect.

Dead-on my feelings as well. Everytime I revisit it, I'm still laughing at parts, but I feel like I also newly discover something else offensive about it every time.

Probably most insane/offensive for me at this moment are those bookend scenes where it turns out it's OK to force your employees to fuck you in order to keep their jobs, because they'll really like it... not aging well.

 

[Discofan]

A perfect final two for me -- "Time's Orphan" I absolutely can't stand, outside of enjoying a return appearance from Keiko after such a long absence.


Dead-on my feelings as well. Everytime I revisit it, I'm still laughing at parts, but I feel like I also newly discover something else offensive about it every time.

Probably most insane/offensive for me at this moment are those bookend scenes where it turns out it's OK to force your employees to fuck you in order to keep their jobs, because they'll really like it... not aging well.

Yeah, but the Ferengi were supposed to be backward assholes who treated women like crap. On TNG they're totally repugnant. DS9 did a great job humanizing them in spite of episodes like this.

 

[Sakonna]

Yeah, but the Ferengi were supposed to be backward assholes who treated women like crap. On TNG they're totally repugnant. DS9 did a great job humanizing them in spite of episodes like this.

Yeah, but the problem here is placement in the narrative. "Captive Pursuit" basically has the same material in it, the scene about how it's written into the dabo girls contracts that they must sexually pleasure Quark on demand. That's all fine, it works with where the character starts in season 1. It feels wrong to see it pop up again at the end of season 6, Quark wasn't in this place anymore.

Plus, the episode is not treating the Quark & Allura scenes as an example of Ferengi being repugnant assholes. It's presenting them as scenes of Quark being a funny, rascally little scamp, and possibly as a guidebook of a good way to get laid, since Allura is ultimately aroused at being coerced into fucking her boss to keep her job. The light, caper-y music, the laugh lines, the slide-whistle ending -- it's a pretty vile tone for the actual substance of the scenes.

Though of course, DS9 isn't unique on this score, 80's/90's entertainment had plenty of scenes even rapier than this, presented with the same sheen of delighted frivolity. Though, it's not often that it was actually THE set-up for a story that's supposedly about feminism and equal-rights for women. That was a novel twist!

 

[Discofan]

Yeah, but the problem here is placement in the narrative. "Captive Pursuit" basically has the same material in it, the scene about how it's written into the dabo girls contracts that they must sexually pleasure Quark on demand. That's all fine, it works with where the character starts in season 1. It feels wrong to see it pop up again at the end of season 6, Quark wasn't in this place anymore.

Plus, the episode is not treating the Quark & Allura scenes as an example of Ferengi being repugnant assholes. It's presenting them as scenes of Quark being a funny, rascally little scamp, and possibly as a guidebook of a good way to get laid, since Allura is ultimately aroused at being coerced into fucking her boss to keep her job. The light, caper-y music, the laugh lines, the slide-whistle ending -- it's a pretty vile tone for the actual substance of the scenes.

Though of course, DS9 isn't unique on this score, 80's/90's entertainment had plenty of scenes even rapier than this, presented with the same sheen of delighted frivolity. Though, it's not often that it was actually THE set-up for a story that's supposedly about feminism and equal-rights for women. That was a novel twist!

That's why I said, "in spite of episodes like this". I agree that this episode is crap and totally unredeemable. Like why would Bashir agree to go along with defrauding the Ferengi coca-cola guy? I mean isn't it in violent contradiction with his Starfleet oath not to interfere in alien governments internal affairs?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That's why I said, "in spite of episodes like this". I agree that this episode is crap and totally unredeemable. Like why would Bashir agree to go along with defrauding the Ferengi coca-cola guy? I mean isn't it in violent contradiction with his Starfleet oath not to interfere in alien governments internal affairs?

All he did is offer elective medical services to his patient.

 

[Discofan]

All he did is offer elective medical services to his patient.

Nope, he was perfectly aware of what was going on and accepted to perform unnecessary surgery in order to change the outcome of a planetary election. Remind you of anything? That's way beyond the pale as far as being a Starfleet officer is concerned but who cares about coherence, right?
It's really funny how Bashir looks down his nose at Sloane for influencing governments when he's perfectly willing to do the same thing!!!

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Nope, he was perfectly aware of what was going on and accepted to perform unnecessary surgery in order to change the outcome of a planetary election. Remind you of anything? That's way beyond the pale as far as being a Starfleet officer is concerned but who cares about coherence, right?
It's really funny how Bashir looks down his nose at Sloane for influencing governments when he's perfectly willing to do the same thing!!!

He was aware what Quark was going to do, but that's none of his business. All that's relevant to his job and the prime directive, he was asked to perform a medical service and he performed it.

If he refused to perform a medical service he would offer to any other patient who requested it because he disagreed with the reason for wanting it, that would be more interference than doing it.

 

[Discofan]

He was aware what Quark was going to do, but that's none of his business. All that's relevant to his job and the prime directive, he was asked to perform a medical service and he performed it.

If he refused to perform a medical service he would offer to any other patient who requested it because he disagreed with the reason for wanting it, that would be more interference than doing it.

Would you say the same if Quark 's goal was to rob a bank or kill someone? Should Bashir have thought: "I know they're doing this to kill that person but I am going along with it because it's none of my business?"

I think there is a clear violation of Bashir's duty as a Starfleet officer not to interfere in alien governments internal affairs. Plus it's not even like he's on the side of truth here. I mean he helped to perpetrate a deception!!

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Nope, he was perfectly aware of what was going on and accepted to perform unnecessary surgery in order to change the outcome of a planetary election.

No supported by the dialogue.

Moreover, Bashir would be required to maintain privacy unless he believed Quark was trying to harm someone physically. Simply put, it's none of Bashir's business why Quark would want to become a woman.

 

[Sakonna]

I just consider it continuity with "Sons Of Mogh." There is no procedure Bashir would decline to perform!

 

[Discofan]

I just consider it continuity with "Sons Of Mogh." There is no procedure Bashir would decline to perform!

"Sons Of Mogh." didn't influence an alien government's internal affairs. I think Bashir should have been court-martialed for that. If there was anything remotely resembling coherence in these series.

However, I agree that SOM poses a load of ethical problems. Starting by making a radical personality changing operation on someone, aggravated by doing so without their expressed consent!