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The Misanthope's guide to Enterprise...
- Thread starter Sadistro
- Start date
I am going to guess that this was an extremely sophisticated way of mocking me...
If you have something to say, Mach 5, then I suggest you come out and say it. Your sarcasm is extremely offensive and if you want to get smart with me, then I'd advise against it.
Is it too much to ask for a civil conversation? If you disagree with what I say, then say why. Your 'oh that's just wrong and everyone knows it' kind of jibes say nothing.
Selectively cribbing pictures that you think proves your point, also says nothing, in that it completely ignores the major body of Braga's work (I have given examples from all the Trek series he worked on).
But let's go through it shall we, just to indulge you this once.
!) He always includes charming and touching character moments.
Watch his episodes from all the series. Archer scrambling to find the source of the squeak in his room, Geordi battling with Spot, the Doctor's initial lament that his encyclopeadic knowledge will now be used for lancing boils etc, Worf's horrified realisation that asking Deanna to be Alexander's Godmother would mean Luxanna is part of his family...
These are a small handful of chirpy, light-hearted moments that Braga is always careful to include. But watch any of his episodes (any of them) and you'll find these wonderful little moments of warmth and heart.
2) Because he wants you to care about the characters.
So you watched 'A Fistful of Datas' for example and weren't cheering for Sherrif Worf and Deputy Alexander? You didn't feel devastated for the Doctor when Seven (unwittingly) rejects him romantically in 'Someone to Watch over Me'? You don't sympathise with Archer's despair over the galaxy not living up to expectations?
What exactly do you care about, if these scenes and characters do not touch you?
3) Sympathise when they suffer...
Again this is tied to the above point, but Trip dies for his friend and all you can find to say is 'that was a lame way to die...', is it? The Krenim commander Anthrax wasting away, driving himself insane in an impossible quest to get back what he lost... nothing, no? Ransom realising what a monster he's allowed himself and his crew to become... just another day at the office for you, was it?
4) Bad Things happen to Good People...
So the people from the 'Borg destroy the Federation' reality in 'Parallels' had it coming, did they? The cogenitor who kills 'her'self in 'Cogenitor' was secretly an arms smuggler to the Romulans was she? The guy that Picard puts out of his misery in 'First Contact' just should have been better at fighting, eh?
5) What are we supposed to think about that...
Has it escaped your notice that Braga thinks the world is a rather dark place? The Nazi atrocities weigh on his mind, he sees the potential and realisation of loss and suffering and doesn't shy away from showing it.
But I guess what was really important to take out of his episodes was that TATV sucked. Or perhaps it's the very idea of thinking about such things when you could be watching bitesize re-runs of the films etc in S4...
I see it all now; it all makes perfect sense when you put it like that...
I have maintained that Braga has many failings. But his tone and his attitude appeal to me and I honestly don't think he deserves anywhere near the level of hatred he gets.
His work with regard to writing episodes is disappointing on 'Enterprise'. His TNG work and his VOY episodes with Joe Menosky are far superior. Rick Berman was a disastrously inappropriate writing partner - but he was trying and they do write some great episodes ('Broken Bow pt 1), ('Shockwave pt 1', 'The Expanse' etc).
You know this has really made my day. This is exactly what I wanted to spend my time doing when I logged on here today. I'm all for people having different opinions from me - but people who refuse to engage in any kind of debate beyond 'you're wrong' is just pointless.
If you have something to say, Mach 5, then I suggest you come out and say it. Your sarcasm is extremely offensive and if you want to get smart with me, then I'd advise against it.
Is it too much to ask for a civil conversation? If you disagree with what I say, then say why. Your 'oh that's just wrong and everyone knows it' kind of jibes say nothing.
Selectively cribbing pictures that you think proves your point, also says nothing, in that it completely ignores the major body of Braga's work (I have given examples from all the Trek series he worked on).
But let's go through it shall we, just to indulge you this once.
!) He always includes charming and touching character moments.
Watch his episodes from all the series. Archer scrambling to find the source of the squeak in his room, Geordi battling with Spot, the Doctor's initial lament that his encyclopeadic knowledge will now be used for lancing boils etc, Worf's horrified realisation that asking Deanna to be Alexander's Godmother would mean Luxanna is part of his family...
These are a small handful of chirpy, light-hearted moments that Braga is always careful to include. But watch any of his episodes (any of them) and you'll find these wonderful little moments of warmth and heart.
2) Because he wants you to care about the characters.
So you watched 'A Fistful of Datas' for example and weren't cheering for Sherrif Worf and Deputy Alexander? You didn't feel devastated for the Doctor when Seven (unwittingly) rejects him romantically in 'Someone to Watch over Me'? You don't sympathise with Archer's despair over the galaxy not living up to expectations?
What exactly do you care about, if these scenes and characters do not touch you?
3) Sympathise when they suffer...
Again this is tied to the above point, but Trip dies for his friend and all you can find to say is 'that was a lame way to die...', is it? The Krenim commander Anthrax wasting away, driving himself insane in an impossible quest to get back what he lost... nothing, no? Ransom realising what a monster he's allowed himself and his crew to become... just another day at the office for you, was it?
4) Bad Things happen to Good People...
So the people from the 'Borg destroy the Federation' reality in 'Parallels' had it coming, did they? The cogenitor who kills 'her'self in 'Cogenitor' was secretly an arms smuggler to the Romulans was she? The guy that Picard puts out of his misery in 'First Contact' just should have been better at fighting, eh?
5) What are we supposed to think about that...
Has it escaped your notice that Braga thinks the world is a rather dark place? The Nazi atrocities weigh on his mind, he sees the potential and realisation of loss and suffering and doesn't shy away from showing it.
But I guess what was really important to take out of his episodes was that TATV sucked. Or perhaps it's the very idea of thinking about such things when you could be watching bitesize re-runs of the films etc in S4...
I see it all now; it all makes perfect sense when you put it like that...
I have maintained that Braga has many failings. But his tone and his attitude appeal to me and I honestly don't think he deserves anywhere near the level of hatred he gets.
His work with regard to writing episodes is disappointing on 'Enterprise'. His TNG work and his VOY episodes with Joe Menosky are far superior. Rick Berman was a disastrously inappropriate writing partner - but he was trying and they do write some great episodes ('Broken Bow pt 1), ('Shockwave pt 1', 'The Expanse' etc).
You know this has really made my day. This is exactly what I wanted to spend my time doing when I logged on here today. I'm all for people having different opinions from me - but people who refuse to engage in any kind of debate beyond 'you're wrong' is just pointless.
Well, maybe not that sophisticated, but thanks anyway
Extremely offensive? Oh boy...
Didn't I give visual examples? I mean, they were the instruments of mockery, but that's not all they were.
Had you bothered to read some of my previous posts on these boards, you would have seen that I truly admire most of Braga's work on Trek. However, one's failures often speak louder than ones successes. Especially when one goes out with a (huge) failure, like Braga most certainly did.
How considerate.
No argument there. These are all little things, but nice little things none the less. My favorite ENT moment to date is "Shuttlepod One's" drunken salute to Subcommander T'pol's awfully nice bum. Kudos to Braga for that one! However, your use of the adverb "always" makes your statement false.
Well sorta. That episode was not exactly what you would call essential TNG. I never really liked it at all, it was childish (okay nothing wrong with that), but it was also opposite of intriguing. Boring, if you will.
Devastated? Whoever came up with the idea of a Seven/Doctor romance in the first place (dunno if it was Braga) should be hanged for it. It was ridiculous.
I do... Kind of. No, on second thought, no I don't. Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence (
), and Archer had to learn the hard way. That's what pioneers do - they find things out the hard way. Ahhhh, let's see... What moments moved me?
* Lal's "I love you, father" in "The Offspring" -- René Echevarria
* Picard (channeling Sarek's thoughts in "Sarek"): "Perrin...Amanda... I wanted to give you so much more, I wanted to show you such...tender...tenderness. But that is not our way. Spock... Amanda... Did you know? Perrin, can - you - know...how much I...love you? I do...LOVE YOU!" -- Peter S. Beagle, Marc Cushman & Jake Jacobs
(*I obviously C/P'd this, but you get the picture*)
Annorax and his wife ("Year of Hell"):
Annorax's Wife: There are always a few more calculations. It's a beautiful day. Spend it with me.
Annorax: I suppose I can make the time.
-- Brannon Braga & Joe Menosky
*Sim (to T'Pol in "Similitude"): "The reason I ask is, well, you're all I think about, if you know what I mean. And I'm not talking about an adolescent crush. That was, well, that was two days ago. This is much more serious, the way I feel about you. Anyway, what's driving me crazy is, I don't know if these feelings are mine or his." -- Manny Cotto
* Trip & T'Les (in "Home"):
T'LES: Have you informed T'Pol?
TUCKER: Informed her of what?
T'LES: You're in love with her. Vulcans may not express their emotions, but we are sensitive to them.
TUCKER: I don't think I knew it until we were standing over that lava field and she told me she was going to marry Koss. That's when it hit me. I was going to lose her. I wanted to tell her right there, but I couldn't.
T'LES: There's still time.
-- Mike Sussman
Okay, enough, this list could go on forever. Aw hell, one more:
Picard: "Five card stud, nothing wild, and sky is the limit." -- Brannon Braga & Ronald D. Moore ("All good things")
You can't be serious... Anyway, HR already made my point for me in her previous post, so I won't bother...
My favorite VOY episode, actually. See above.
WTF took him that long? Ransom was an idiot.
The number of parallel realities is infinite. I'm pretty sure that the Federation gets destroyed by someone in at least a thousand of them. Also, the Nazis win in like hundreds of them, and the universe never gets created in the first place in billions of them. A retarded example at best.
I kinda felt sorry for it... Oh I don't know, not one of my favorite episodes.
No, he should have been more careful not to get assimilated. Tough luck.
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Hello there, Mach5. In fact hello to everyone - I haven't thanked everyone for their replied yet, have I?
For a start, why am I required to read your other posts? If you want me to understand your position, then you tell me. Your only contributions to this thread (before your last post) were mocking and dismissive. I didn't feel the need to research you, when you were putting in no effort yourself.
I must disagree about 'A Fistful of Datas' - I thought it was easily one of the best S6 episodes. From the development of Worf and Alexander's family bond and making points about how danfer can lurk anywhere, anytime etc, it was worthy stuff, as well as hugely entertaining.
But give Braga credit that it's as well regarded as it is (it certainly isn't hated as far as I can tell). Because he confesses that he hates Westerns as a rule (not surprising as their focus on machismo etc is not him at all), but as a staff writer, he got the job and had to do it (the original story is by DS9's Robert Wolfe if I remember).
Seven and the Doctor didn't have a romance - much to Doc's chagrin. I don't see why you'd say it was ridiculous. The Doctor was trying to be a person; people need company and intimacy. Seven is serious, intelligent and beautiful - he can admire her medically (she's an ex-Borg), aesthetically and intellectually.
The point is that the Doctor was a very engaging character and the story was going for the Cyrano de Bergerac tale. The physically unappealing but romantic hero aids the heroine to try and find love with another, whilst pining for her himself. A classic old tale, well revived in the episode, I thought.
The point is with Archer and the crew in general, that they thought it was going to be a grand space adventure. We are speaking from the modern, jaded world. Religion is faltering, there is no evidence of intelligent life out there... there isn't much left to believe in. We expect disappointment now.
But imagine if aliens really did visit, were intelligent and (mostly) benevolent like the Vulcans. If we suddenly found that there's countless races and sights just waiting for us to get out there and see them. We'd be 'a bit jazzed' to say the least, wouldn't we?
Further suppose that we were fulfilling the dream of out parents to do this. So how would we feel if we got out there and everyone starting shooting at us, robbing us, capturing us etc? I think Braga captures this perfectly in term of general tone.
I'm not a great lover of Rene Echevarria episodes. He's even more one note than Braga. Every episode about awakening to a new state of being, discovering new life... and then usually the new life, new chance dies and everyone is very sad... again. I wasn't a huge fan of 'The Offspring', because it all seemed so far fetched. Just didn't get into it.
Annorax... I thought I may have spelt that wrong... 'Year of Hell' is simply one of the best two parters in Star Trek.
Not seen 'Similitude' yet, and 'Home' was a bit up and down. Some good character work at times, but it all feels a bit directionless. And then the episode just sort of ends...
I think you fail to appreciate what Ransom went through. He didn't have a nice big ship like Voyager. He had a tiny little science vessel and no resources. They wanted to get home like Voyager's crew, but didn't have the means - unless they resorted to piracy.
As 'Voyager' shows, the desire to return home, to believe you'll see your friends and family again is strong - Ransom and his crew was just holding desperately onto that and forgot who they were. Given that Janeway has been leaning that way all through S5, it was the logical end to the season.
Why is the example from Parallels retarded? Those people have been through hell and are being asked to go back there without making a fuss. If the universe had never been created, you wouldn't feel any pain, would you?
They know what they're going back to and they'd rather die, see everyone else die, before they'll agree to it. I think it's an excellent insight examination of 'Your life may not be perfect, it could be better, but it could be a hell of a lot worse'.
'Cogenitor' is an excellent idea for an episode, despite seeming like it'll be the same old 'they treat people like vermin because of X/ It's not our place to judge them etc.'
That is a big feature, but it's how they use it. It sees Archer finally getting to enjoy himself, see some of those wondrous sights he wanted, meet aliens who aren't hostile and don't want to fleece them for anything. And then it's all sabotaged by his closest friend whose defence is that he's following Archer's 'good example.'
It's unfortunately hampered though, by a) The special effects not being grand enough to really sell how high and buzzing Archer is, before receiving the usual depressing 'we've alienated another people' news and b) the fact that Archer and Trip are just fine with each other in the next episode (typical Star Trek!)
And on your point about failures speaking louder than triumphs... that is such a sad view. It's the same with people who attack George Lucas, saying he's ruined their lives, sullying the memory of some of the greatest films ever...
Back up there - the greatest films ever... that he also made. It's outrageous. He makes 3 of the very best sci-fi/fantasy adventure films ever and all people choose to remember is that the new installments sucked.
Anyway, next time I'm here, I'm going to speak about Season 2 Enterprise and I will not be sidetracked!
For a start, why am I required to read your other posts? If you want me to understand your position, then you tell me. Your only contributions to this thread (before your last post) were mocking and dismissive. I didn't feel the need to research you, when you were putting in no effort yourself.
I must disagree about 'A Fistful of Datas' - I thought it was easily one of the best S6 episodes. From the development of Worf and Alexander's family bond and making points about how danfer can lurk anywhere, anytime etc, it was worthy stuff, as well as hugely entertaining.
But give Braga credit that it's as well regarded as it is (it certainly isn't hated as far as I can tell). Because he confesses that he hates Westerns as a rule (not surprising as their focus on machismo etc is not him at all), but as a staff writer, he got the job and had to do it (the original story is by DS9's Robert Wolfe if I remember).
Seven and the Doctor didn't have a romance - much to Doc's chagrin. I don't see why you'd say it was ridiculous. The Doctor was trying to be a person; people need company and intimacy. Seven is serious, intelligent and beautiful - he can admire her medically (she's an ex-Borg), aesthetically and intellectually.
The point is that the Doctor was a very engaging character and the story was going for the Cyrano de Bergerac tale. The physically unappealing but romantic hero aids the heroine to try and find love with another, whilst pining for her himself. A classic old tale, well revived in the episode, I thought.
The point is with Archer and the crew in general, that they thought it was going to be a grand space adventure. We are speaking from the modern, jaded world. Religion is faltering, there is no evidence of intelligent life out there... there isn't much left to believe in. We expect disappointment now.
But imagine if aliens really did visit, were intelligent and (mostly) benevolent like the Vulcans. If we suddenly found that there's countless races and sights just waiting for us to get out there and see them. We'd be 'a bit jazzed' to say the least, wouldn't we?
Further suppose that we were fulfilling the dream of out parents to do this. So how would we feel if we got out there and everyone starting shooting at us, robbing us, capturing us etc? I think Braga captures this perfectly in term of general tone.
I'm not a great lover of Rene Echevarria episodes. He's even more one note than Braga. Every episode about awakening to a new state of being, discovering new life... and then usually the new life, new chance dies and everyone is very sad... again. I wasn't a huge fan of 'The Offspring', because it all seemed so far fetched. Just didn't get into it.
Annorax... I thought I may have spelt that wrong... 'Year of Hell' is simply one of the best two parters in Star Trek.
Not seen 'Similitude' yet, and 'Home' was a bit up and down. Some good character work at times, but it all feels a bit directionless. And then the episode just sort of ends...
I think you fail to appreciate what Ransom went through. He didn't have a nice big ship like Voyager. He had a tiny little science vessel and no resources. They wanted to get home like Voyager's crew, but didn't have the means - unless they resorted to piracy.
As 'Voyager' shows, the desire to return home, to believe you'll see your friends and family again is strong - Ransom and his crew was just holding desperately onto that and forgot who they were. Given that Janeway has been leaning that way all through S5, it was the logical end to the season.
Why is the example from Parallels retarded? Those people have been through hell and are being asked to go back there without making a fuss. If the universe had never been created, you wouldn't feel any pain, would you?
They know what they're going back to and they'd rather die, see everyone else die, before they'll agree to it. I think it's an excellent insight examination of 'Your life may not be perfect, it could be better, but it could be a hell of a lot worse'.
'Cogenitor' is an excellent idea for an episode, despite seeming like it'll be the same old 'they treat people like vermin because of X/ It's not our place to judge them etc.'
That is a big feature, but it's how they use it. It sees Archer finally getting to enjoy himself, see some of those wondrous sights he wanted, meet aliens who aren't hostile and don't want to fleece them for anything. And then it's all sabotaged by his closest friend whose defence is that he's following Archer's 'good example.'
It's unfortunately hampered though, by a) The special effects not being grand enough to really sell how high and buzzing Archer is, before receiving the usual depressing 'we've alienated another people' news and b) the fact that Archer and Trip are just fine with each other in the next episode (typical Star Trek!)
And on your point about failures speaking louder than triumphs... that is such a sad view. It's the same with people who attack George Lucas, saying he's ruined their lives, sullying the memory of some of the greatest films ever...
Back up there - the greatest films ever... that he also made. It's outrageous. He makes 3 of the very best sci-fi/fantasy adventure films ever and all people choose to remember is that the new installments sucked.
Anyway, next time I'm here, I'm going to speak about Season 2 Enterprise and I will not be sidetracked!
To each his own. One of TOP20 Trek episodes on my personal 'best of Star Trek' list.
What do I say about "Similitude", wow... Only the finest season-3 episode. You'll see why (but if you don't, well, you don't).
You saw "Home" before "Similitude?"
Ending? If that was not a powerful ending, I don't know what is. Connor Trinneer deserved an Emmy, just for that "I just lost the love of my live" look on his face.
I couldn't care less about Ransom, and Voyager was by far the weakest of all five Star Trek shows. On the scale of 1 to 10, it was a 2, maybe a weak 3. The "Equionox" two-parter was good by VOY's standards, but mediocre by ENT's and bad by TNG's and especially DS9's.
You missed the point.
I agree, it is sad. But it is also realistic.
Not exactly. Star Wars prequels had the potential of being amazing, both visually and in the terms of storytelling. They ended up getting their spotlight stolen by LOTR. That just felt wrong. I still enjoyed TPM though, ROTS even more so, but AOTC was so inferior to its LOTR counterpart (TTT) that it was actually sad. Star Wars is supposed to be more than movies... But George Lucas is still my hero, no matter what (And to me, "The Empire Strikes Back" will always be the greatest movie ever made - thanks to Irwin Kershner
)
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Mach5, after this little sideshow, I'd just about had it with you. You've been friendlied numerous times, by post and PM, including upthread, about sarcasm and mockery directed toward other posters.
But now there's this:
And this
And this
I wouldn't worry about spelling fictional names like "Annorax" if I were you. I'd learn to spell the word "spelled" first...
Your self-satisfied and unrepentant abrasiveness toward posters with whom you disagree is not acceptable here in the ENT forum. It makes the environment unpleasant for everyone, especially the posters with whom you clash.
In this case, it was just a matter of which of 3 posts to hang the warning on. And you have earned a warning for flaming. Comments to PM.
Well saristro i thought your views on star trek were entertaining, well thought out and very intelligent. thank you for your time and your own insight.
Well Sadistro, I thought your posts were very long.
(j/k)
And interesting.. yeah. Cheers for your Braga defence! Your a braver man than I (lover of 98% things Trek).
(j/k)
And interesting.. yeah. Cheers for your Braga defence! Your a braver man than I (lover of 98% things Trek).
Sadistro, really interesting. I didn't intend to read it all and ... did. I agree with you -- Braga is way too maligned here. I actually think he did a lot of things right. Coto did a lot of things differently, but was much worse at character pieces and actual episodes. Coto seemed more like a student of Star Trek and referenced TOS episodes. Now, having written that, Andorian Incident is one of my favorites for bridging ENT and TOS. In fact, I think after The Forge arc and the Mirror Universe arc, it's probably the best. None of those episodes, by the way, were written by Coto.
Morning all.
I wasn't fishing for sympathy or compliments - I just wished that Mach would engage in an actual conversation rather than a snipefest. This he did eventually do (but that comment about 'spelt' was below the belt, you dog!), so I'm fine if he's fine basically. Water under the bridge...
Thanks anyway for people's kind but unexpected words. I know my posts are long, but I think that's the mark of a good show - that there is so much to say. I'd to think it's a love of the material and to see how and why they were constructed as they were, rather than simply being a windbag who likes the sound of their own voice!
So anyway... Season Two.
After a bumpy Season One, I found myself nonetheless intrigued by the show. As I said, the style and tone had me hooked, I was eager to see how Archer would cope with his rapidly disintegrating dream of space exploration and 'Shockwave pt 1' was a great season ender, making me eager to continue.
But the fact remained, the episodes in Season One had largely disappointed. So more colour was added, some staff changes were made and they were off again. Given that it's debateable as to whether 'Enterprise' would have earned a second season, had it not been Star Trek (or even been allowed to finish it's first season), there was a lot to do.
To that end, Braga and Berman seemed to decide that refinement, rather than outright change was the key to success. Their hiring of new staff like John Shiban showed that they probably weren't going to take a massively new direction. Shiban's work on 'The X-Files' saw him write dark stories of vengeance and rage by society's outcasts (sound like anyone we know?)
Season One had been characterised by the idea of 'It's not what you thought it was like'. Season Two's running theme was 'Here Today, Gone Tomorrow', probably prompted by concerns over whether the show itself would last, given the negative reactions!
The season used this in many ways, from explaining the need to 'seize the day' or regret not having done so in the face of potential tragedy, to the regret that comes from having acted too rashly and being unable to undo a fatal mistake. Time and again, the season concerns itself with the ideas of 'You can't go back/You must go back/I want it back/I won't go back'.
And it all starts in 'Shockwave pt 2'. This is perhaps the most literal expression of 'Here Today, Gone Tomorrow' in that we follow two timelines. Trip and others are in the 'Today', the present as we know it on the show. It is still 'here' in that little has changed from last season. Archer and Daniels however are in the future, where the world Daniels knew no longer exists - the 'Gone Tomorrow'.
And it sets up the season arc nicely. Hoshi finds herself fading away, leaving her and the rest of the crew to lament not connecting more while she was there. The same for Travis in 'Dead Stop' - one minute he's alive, the next he's dead, and Archer and Reed are left to reflect in their quarters that they didn't know him as well as they ought to, hadn't gotten round to it and now it's too late.
We see the tragic cogenitor who is told 'You must go back' to her old life. But she can't, leaving Trip and Archer feeling that her blood is on their hands. We hear the tales of the Tellarite bounty hunter who will never get back his ship and his old happy life, the criminal in 'Canamar' who was imprisoned unjustly and for whom there is now no going back from his outlaw life.
But that's not to say that the season is all doom and gloom. Although the hope still doesn't come through as strongly as it needed to, episodes like 'Carbon Creek' show that there are still pleasant suprises in the universe. The Vulcan crewman who refuses to go back to his old life, now he has seen and experienced a wonderful new way of living and looking at things.
It shows that before humans ever knew of the haughty and disapproving Vulcans, that at least one member of their race had already given up everything he had to be with them.
And there is the Klingon Advocate who, though beaten down by the disintegration of the once proud and cultured Klingon race into a band of interstellar thugs, still hopes it could all turn around. Even though they have imprisoned him and shamed him, he still believes they can regain their true honour. And though you may scoff and say he fails, does Worf not exhibit much of that purer and more noble Klingon spirit?
As for humanity, episodes like 'Cease Fire' and 'First Flight' show that they have worked so hard to get out here, that they can't give up. No matter how much people label them as troublemakers and meddlers, the galaxy has to get used to the fact that humanity is now on the map and that they have things to contribute (which even Soval eventually admits).
And after all is said and done, the season ends with 'The Expanse'. It was a turbulent season for the Enterprise crew, where they helped many people but harmed many others. So it comes down to whether or not they believe their influence has been a good one; do they still have the self-confidence to go where no-one else will?
Soval warns them that if they go into the Expanse, they will not come back, at least not as they are. Physically but also mentally, we can see the darkness and anger in Archer and Trip. They will be embarking on a mission of destruction, not exploration. And after that, there may be turning back...
So that's what I thought it was about, but did I think it was actually any good? Well... I thought that despite not being a classic, it was a generally decent season. The episodes still lacked bite at crucial times, but the directors and visual effects people need to take as much blame for that as the writers sometimes.
'Minefield' was a good idea for example, but it all looks so flat and lacks any kind of real tension, because it's so boringly shot. Some of the character work is okay, but at times the episode seems little more than a documentary about disarming bombs. There's no life to it.
'Dead Stop' is another episode that frequently fails to impress as much as you hoped it would. The basic horror idea of a computer that uses living components to repair itself is always engaging. And whilst some of the visuals (particularly the special effects) in this episode work very well, some are still just drab and like many of Mike Sussman's scripts, it feels lethargic.
Then there are episodes like 'Marauders' which I can't help but like, despite some extremely cheesy moments towards the end. It's noteworthy because it's bright and spacious, the Klingons are enjoyably dastardly goons and it's a rare episode where they get to do some real good.
But seeing that 'Vulcan evade roll' thing get used so often... I cringed so much, I broke my spine in 5 places. And it's accompanied by some frankly embarassing shots of the Klingons getting outwitted by tripping over ropes and so forth. And yet, it's great fun because it recalls another extremely silly but entertaining show - 'The A-Team'! I laughed myself silly humming the A -Team theme tune during the battle...
What I'm trying to say is that there are still too many episodes in cramped, drab spaces. The visuals for when they see truly magnificent sights (like the 'sun surf' in 'Cogenitor' and the storm in 'The Catwalk' for example) fail to impart any real sense of majesty. They just look flat and standard CGI. When they manage to get the CGI to live on the screen in 'Dead Stop', it's great, but that rarely happens.
One very disappointing aspect is the continued lack of focus on characters other than Archer, Trip and T'Pol. It's particularly infuriating given they clearly knew this was something they needed to do. Roughly the first quarter of the season shows a real commitment to integrating the whole crew in episodes, even when they don't do that much.
Though it had many problems, 'Shockwave pt 2' was very good in that it showed the Enterprise crew working as a team to get round the Suliban. And seeing the whole cast together is something that would have been nice to see more of.
And episodes like 'Dead Stop' and 'The Catwalk' show that Mike Sussman had one very admirable trait, in that he tried to give a sense of there being a proper crew on Enterprise - not just the main characters. A trait he has in common with Michael Piller and there are worse people to share writing traits with.
But the focus is still firmly on Archer, Trip and T'Pol. So after the initial discipline to show the full cast had died down, Hoshi and Travis et al were sent back to their positions, blending into the background. The writers just could not get behind the characters and think of anything for them to do. In the case of Travis, it's criminal because Montgomery puts so much in, it's sad to see him get so little.
With Hoshi, it is perhaps only to be expected, given the traditional difficulty male writers have with engaging with female characters in Sci-Fi. I think 'Vanishing Point' was a real missed opportunity though. The script definately needed some work, as it's just embarassing in places.
But I thought Linda Park, whilst good, should have embraced it as a 'if not now, then never!' opportunity to try and deliver a performance that might have caught viewers and writers' eyes.
To conclude, I'll just mention the opener and ender. 'Shockwave pt 2' is a predictably poor conclusion to a great season ender. Archer and Daniels are trapped in the future with no hope of escape! Well... unless they can find some copper and cut it into thin strips of course...? It's nice to see the crew working together, but this was still a rather humdrum affair.
'The Expanse' however is easily my favourite 'Enterprise' episode yet. I thought it was remarkable how much they crammed into it, giving a truly big and significant feel whilst also finding time for excellent character moments (Archer confessing his disappointment over how things turned out, the usually upbeat Trip darkened by the death of his sister, him and Reed standing in the midst of the devastation etc etc.)
And just the whole idea of the journey into hell, the new dangerous purpose coming over the crew... I literally couldn't wait to see the next season - and was then forced to. Seems like Archer was right about life after all...
All in all, a generally better season that still wasn't firing on all cylinders as much as you'd hope. If you can immerse yourself in the vision proposed by B+B however, I think it stands as a worthy addition to the Trek franchise. It just needed a little more oomph!
And finally the run-down of best and not so best episodes:
THE A LIST:
'Singularity' - the bit about the Captain's chair is hilarious.
'Judgement'
'Cogenitor'
'The Expanse'
THE B LIST:
'Carbon Creek' - a surprisingly great little tale.
'Dead Stop'
'Marauders' - They ain't getting on no plane...
'The Catwalk'
'First Flight'
Well, that's all for today... I go now to Amazon to hunt for S3. I shall succeed - or else I'll break into someone's house tonight and steal it. You know how it is...
I wasn't fishing for sympathy or compliments - I just wished that Mach would engage in an actual conversation rather than a snipefest. This he did eventually do (but that comment about 'spelt' was below the belt, you dog!), so I'm fine if he's fine basically. Water under the bridge...
Thanks anyway for people's kind but unexpected words. I know my posts are long, but I think that's the mark of a good show - that there is so much to say. I'd to think it's a love of the material and to see how and why they were constructed as they were, rather than simply being a windbag who likes the sound of their own voice!
So anyway... Season Two.
After a bumpy Season One, I found myself nonetheless intrigued by the show. As I said, the style and tone had me hooked, I was eager to see how Archer would cope with his rapidly disintegrating dream of space exploration and 'Shockwave pt 1' was a great season ender, making me eager to continue.
But the fact remained, the episodes in Season One had largely disappointed. So more colour was added, some staff changes were made and they were off again. Given that it's debateable as to whether 'Enterprise' would have earned a second season, had it not been Star Trek (or even been allowed to finish it's first season), there was a lot to do.
To that end, Braga and Berman seemed to decide that refinement, rather than outright change was the key to success. Their hiring of new staff like John Shiban showed that they probably weren't going to take a massively new direction. Shiban's work on 'The X-Files' saw him write dark stories of vengeance and rage by society's outcasts (sound like anyone we know?)
Season One had been characterised by the idea of 'It's not what you thought it was like'. Season Two's running theme was 'Here Today, Gone Tomorrow', probably prompted by concerns over whether the show itself would last, given the negative reactions!
The season used this in many ways, from explaining the need to 'seize the day' or regret not having done so in the face of potential tragedy, to the regret that comes from having acted too rashly and being unable to undo a fatal mistake. Time and again, the season concerns itself with the ideas of 'You can't go back/You must go back/I want it back/I won't go back'.
And it all starts in 'Shockwave pt 2'. This is perhaps the most literal expression of 'Here Today, Gone Tomorrow' in that we follow two timelines. Trip and others are in the 'Today', the present as we know it on the show. It is still 'here' in that little has changed from last season. Archer and Daniels however are in the future, where the world Daniels knew no longer exists - the 'Gone Tomorrow'.
And it sets up the season arc nicely. Hoshi finds herself fading away, leaving her and the rest of the crew to lament not connecting more while she was there. The same for Travis in 'Dead Stop' - one minute he's alive, the next he's dead, and Archer and Reed are left to reflect in their quarters that they didn't know him as well as they ought to, hadn't gotten round to it and now it's too late.
We see the tragic cogenitor who is told 'You must go back' to her old life. But she can't, leaving Trip and Archer feeling that her blood is on their hands. We hear the tales of the Tellarite bounty hunter who will never get back his ship and his old happy life, the criminal in 'Canamar' who was imprisoned unjustly and for whom there is now no going back from his outlaw life.
But that's not to say that the season is all doom and gloom. Although the hope still doesn't come through as strongly as it needed to, episodes like 'Carbon Creek' show that there are still pleasant suprises in the universe. The Vulcan crewman who refuses to go back to his old life, now he has seen and experienced a wonderful new way of living and looking at things.
It shows that before humans ever knew of the haughty and disapproving Vulcans, that at least one member of their race had already given up everything he had to be with them.
And there is the Klingon Advocate who, though beaten down by the disintegration of the once proud and cultured Klingon race into a band of interstellar thugs, still hopes it could all turn around. Even though they have imprisoned him and shamed him, he still believes they can regain their true honour. And though you may scoff and say he fails, does Worf not exhibit much of that purer and more noble Klingon spirit?
As for humanity, episodes like 'Cease Fire' and 'First Flight' show that they have worked so hard to get out here, that they can't give up. No matter how much people label them as troublemakers and meddlers, the galaxy has to get used to the fact that humanity is now on the map and that they have things to contribute (which even Soval eventually admits).
And after all is said and done, the season ends with 'The Expanse'. It was a turbulent season for the Enterprise crew, where they helped many people but harmed many others. So it comes down to whether or not they believe their influence has been a good one; do they still have the self-confidence to go where no-one else will?
Soval warns them that if they go into the Expanse, they will not come back, at least not as they are. Physically but also mentally, we can see the darkness and anger in Archer and Trip. They will be embarking on a mission of destruction, not exploration. And after that, there may be turning back...
So that's what I thought it was about, but did I think it was actually any good? Well... I thought that despite not being a classic, it was a generally decent season. The episodes still lacked bite at crucial times, but the directors and visual effects people need to take as much blame for that as the writers sometimes.
'Minefield' was a good idea for example, but it all looks so flat and lacks any kind of real tension, because it's so boringly shot. Some of the character work is okay, but at times the episode seems little more than a documentary about disarming bombs. There's no life to it.
'Dead Stop' is another episode that frequently fails to impress as much as you hoped it would. The basic horror idea of a computer that uses living components to repair itself is always engaging. And whilst some of the visuals (particularly the special effects) in this episode work very well, some are still just drab and like many of Mike Sussman's scripts, it feels lethargic.
Then there are episodes like 'Marauders' which I can't help but like, despite some extremely cheesy moments towards the end. It's noteworthy because it's bright and spacious, the Klingons are enjoyably dastardly goons and it's a rare episode where they get to do some real good.
But seeing that 'Vulcan evade roll' thing get used so often... I cringed so much, I broke my spine in 5 places. And it's accompanied by some frankly embarassing shots of the Klingons getting outwitted by tripping over ropes and so forth. And yet, it's great fun because it recalls another extremely silly but entertaining show - 'The A-Team'! I laughed myself silly humming the A -Team theme tune during the battle...
What I'm trying to say is that there are still too many episodes in cramped, drab spaces. The visuals for when they see truly magnificent sights (like the 'sun surf' in 'Cogenitor' and the storm in 'The Catwalk' for example) fail to impart any real sense of majesty. They just look flat and standard CGI. When they manage to get the CGI to live on the screen in 'Dead Stop', it's great, but that rarely happens.
One very disappointing aspect is the continued lack of focus on characters other than Archer, Trip and T'Pol. It's particularly infuriating given they clearly knew this was something they needed to do. Roughly the first quarter of the season shows a real commitment to integrating the whole crew in episodes, even when they don't do that much.
Though it had many problems, 'Shockwave pt 2' was very good in that it showed the Enterprise crew working as a team to get round the Suliban. And seeing the whole cast together is something that would have been nice to see more of.
And episodes like 'Dead Stop' and 'The Catwalk' show that Mike Sussman had one very admirable trait, in that he tried to give a sense of there being a proper crew on Enterprise - not just the main characters. A trait he has in common with Michael Piller and there are worse people to share writing traits with.
But the focus is still firmly on Archer, Trip and T'Pol. So after the initial discipline to show the full cast had died down, Hoshi and Travis et al were sent back to their positions, blending into the background. The writers just could not get behind the characters and think of anything for them to do. In the case of Travis, it's criminal because Montgomery puts so much in, it's sad to see him get so little.
With Hoshi, it is perhaps only to be expected, given the traditional difficulty male writers have with engaging with female characters in Sci-Fi. I think 'Vanishing Point' was a real missed opportunity though. The script definately needed some work, as it's just embarassing in places.
But I thought Linda Park, whilst good, should have embraced it as a 'if not now, then never!' opportunity to try and deliver a performance that might have caught viewers and writers' eyes.
To conclude, I'll just mention the opener and ender. 'Shockwave pt 2' is a predictably poor conclusion to a great season ender. Archer and Daniels are trapped in the future with no hope of escape! Well... unless they can find some copper and cut it into thin strips of course...? It's nice to see the crew working together, but this was still a rather humdrum affair.
'The Expanse' however is easily my favourite 'Enterprise' episode yet. I thought it was remarkable how much they crammed into it, giving a truly big and significant feel whilst also finding time for excellent character moments (Archer confessing his disappointment over how things turned out, the usually upbeat Trip darkened by the death of his sister, him and Reed standing in the midst of the devastation etc etc.)
And just the whole idea of the journey into hell, the new dangerous purpose coming over the crew... I literally couldn't wait to see the next season - and was then forced to. Seems like Archer was right about life after all...
All in all, a generally better season that still wasn't firing on all cylinders as much as you'd hope. If you can immerse yourself in the vision proposed by B+B however, I think it stands as a worthy addition to the Trek franchise. It just needed a little more oomph!
And finally the run-down of best and not so best episodes:
THE A LIST:
'Singularity' - the bit about the Captain's chair is hilarious.
'Judgement'
'Cogenitor'
'The Expanse'
THE B LIST:
'Carbon Creek' - a surprisingly great little tale.
'Dead Stop'
'Marauders' - They ain't getting on no plane...
'The Catwalk'
'First Flight'
Well, that's all for today... I go now to Amazon to hunt for S3. I shall succeed - or else I'll break into someone's house tonight and steal it. You know how it is...
Sadistro, I'm really sorry you took it personally. It was never my intention to offend you, I was just mocking your, in my opinion, naive views.
And I apologize for mocking your spelling. That was, I admit, low.
Anyway, water under the bridge.
I completely agree. I stated many times that Joanna Cassidy really made something out of T'Les, but T'Les was also very well written IMO. Her on screen chemistry with Trinneer was amazing, and the Trip/T'Les scenes are the main reason I like "Home" so much.
totally agree! i like the scene at the end of the episode, when she asked to trip to go and tell to T'Pol that he loves her. without a word, she makes us understand that she understands that trip was the perfect guy for her daughter. and this, before the two discoverded it.
I wouldn't really say she considered Trip a "perfect" guy for T'pol, but rather that she realized she was unfair to him and full of preconceptions. And when she realized he genuinely cared for her daughter, he suddenly became worthy of her (the fact that she allowed him to wear her late husbands clothes is symbolical, I believe).
And then, of course, she probably got stricken by guilt (when Koss and the wedding party came, and suddenly everything became 'real'). The fact that her daughter was condemning herself to a life of misery just to help her career surely made her feel uneasy at the end.
oh, yes, you're right, "perfect" is not the good word. and i agree with your arguments (i've forgotten the guilty factor)
I've just been having fun reading the thread...interesting view of Braga's vision and work, and it puts Enterprise in a new light. It is a very "realistic" show, which at times is at odds with Gene Roddenberry's 'happy' vision of the future (TOS and early TNG).
I don't consider TATV actually part of Enterprise. It's an extra TNG episode. To me, "Terra Prime" is the finale, just because of Archer's excellent speech in the council chamber:
I liked watching the evolution of T'Les--first, she's cold and (possibly) a bit speciest, because the ENT Vulcans do seem to have a 'holier-than-thou' attitude towards Humans. As she got to know Trip, and especially how willing and eager he was to help her out, she seems to have started thinking that perhaps he wasn't such a bad guy (for a human) and maybe it was OK that he cared for her daughter. Falling in with the Syrranites did T'Les good--she, and the other Syrranites, were closer to the Vulcans we all know and love, and were better able to control their emotions (the reason why I like the Kir'Shara episodes).
The "Vulcan evade roll" makes me think of two things:
Galaxy Quest: "Does the rolling help?"..."Yes! It helps!"
and
Family Guy's "Blue Harvest": "Oh my god! They're drifting slightly to the left!" "Wow, this guy sure knows some moves!"
I find it difficult to believe that Klingons wouldn't be able to deal with the "jumping out of the way" maneuver. These Klingons must all have been sick the day the counter for that maneuver was taught at bat'telh school.
I don't consider TATV actually part of Enterprise. It's an extra TNG episode. To me, "Terra Prime" is the finale, just because of Archer's excellent speech in the council chamber:
I liked watching the evolution of T'Les--first, she's cold and (possibly) a bit speciest, because the ENT Vulcans do seem to have a 'holier-than-thou' attitude towards Humans. As she got to know Trip, and especially how willing and eager he was to help her out, she seems to have started thinking that perhaps he wasn't such a bad guy (for a human) and maybe it was OK that he cared for her daughter. Falling in with the Syrranites did T'Les good--she, and the other Syrranites, were closer to the Vulcans we all know and love, and were better able to control their emotions (the reason why I like the Kir'Shara episodes).
The "Vulcan evade roll" makes me think of two things:
Galaxy Quest: "Does the rolling help?"..."Yes! It helps!"
and
Family Guy's "Blue Harvest": "Oh my god! They're drifting slightly to the left!" "Wow, this guy sure knows some moves!"
I find it difficult to believe that Klingons wouldn't be able to deal with the "jumping out of the way" maneuver. These Klingons must all have been sick the day the counter for that maneuver was taught at bat'telh school.
Well, like I said, I got very little out of the ending of 'Home'. It's mainly to do with the fact that I could not care less about the Trip and T'Pol romance and was much more interested in the other threads of the episode (the racism against Phlox, Archer's resentment of how things turned out etc).
I'm not against romance in shows, but the fact is, it's rare to find one that really works. You have to like both characters, like the idea of them being together and not like the idea of one or both of them being with someone else more.
It also calls for a different kind of writing, and Sci-Fi writers tend not to want to write about romance, if they can help it (look at the disaster of Annakin and Padme in the new Star Wars prequels...) Add to that, the need for the actors to play it convincingly... And all this goes for films, TV and even novels really.
And this was no exception. I don't care for T'Pol as a character, so this completely failed to grab me. The old Hollywood formula states that you need love stories to appeal to a mass audience, but forcing these things, just sees you tread the most well worn of paths.
It isn't helped by the fact that writers can usually only find drama in the 'will they, won't they?' stage of the relationship. Writing characters as couples in stable relationships is not conducive to drama and simply eludes most writers as to what to do with it. All of which produces an endless stream of very similar romance tales across all Sci-Fi shows.
If something seems to be working on screen between characters and actors, then it makes sense to go with it. But the vast majority of the time, it doesn't work and swims against what the writers really want to be talking about.
Anyway, hopefully I'll be getting S3 sometime this week. So... fingers crossed.
I'm not against romance in shows, but the fact is, it's rare to find one that really works. You have to like both characters, like the idea of them being together and not like the idea of one or both of them being with someone else more.
It also calls for a different kind of writing, and Sci-Fi writers tend not to want to write about romance, if they can help it (look at the disaster of Annakin and Padme in the new Star Wars prequels...) Add to that, the need for the actors to play it convincingly... And all this goes for films, TV and even novels really.
And this was no exception. I don't care for T'Pol as a character, so this completely failed to grab me. The old Hollywood formula states that you need love stories to appeal to a mass audience, but forcing these things, just sees you tread the most well worn of paths.
It isn't helped by the fact that writers can usually only find drama in the 'will they, won't they?' stage of the relationship. Writing characters as couples in stable relationships is not conducive to drama and simply eludes most writers as to what to do with it. All of which produces an endless stream of very similar romance tales across all Sci-Fi shows.
If something seems to be working on screen between characters and actors, then it makes sense to go with it. But the vast majority of the time, it doesn't work and swims against what the writers really want to be talking about.
Anyway, hopefully I'll be getting S3 sometime this week. So... fingers crossed.
Well, there are three main reasons why Anakin/Padme romance turned out a disaster:
#1) George Lucas can't write - period! Han/Leia romance worked because Lawrence Kasdan made it work (writing genuinely cute stuff like "scruffy looking nerf-herder" is something beyond Lucas' abilities, and that balcony scene in ROTS was so dreadful it almost made me hurl).
#2) Natalie Portman and Hayden Christensen can't act
#3) Even lousy actors can give satisfying performances if a good director helps them with his guidance - however, George Lucas can't direct, admitted so himself (Spielberg wanted to do the prequels, but GL wouldn't let him, sadly)
Agreed. And I think Trinneer and Blalock did well, considering the flawed material they had to work with. They had this huge chemistry together, but it's the writers who didn't know how to utilize that chemistry. Manny Coto and Mike Sussman succeded to some degree; "Similitude" was IMO wonderful (compare Sim's declaration of love to Anakins and you'll se what I mean), and Sussman wrote that sweet, but too short scene with Trip and T'pol entering the sand garden, where Trip teases T'pol about her dressing style. I myself am (obviously) a big fan of that country boy/ice princess thing, but sadly, in the end, it didn't fully deliver.
You mean Star Trek novels, or sci-fi in general?
I meant in all media, not just Trek. The fact is, most male writers just don't want to write about romance. David Fury who used to write for 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' is a good example. He liked the show; he liked writing horror and comedy, but he just couldn't get his head around writing the romance threads that the show called for.
And to take a Trek example, Worf and Dax, Odo and Kira and Paris and Torres are some of the only lasting relationships in Trek. None of them could be described as particularly exciting and are usually just reduced to a sucession of 'life or death, one of the pair may die' episodes.
And to take a Trek example, Worf and Dax, Odo and Kira and Paris and Torres are some of the only lasting relationships in Trek. None of them could be described as particularly exciting and are usually just reduced to a sucession of 'life or death, one of the pair may die' episodes.
What makes Enterprise special is the characters and the attachment you build to them over time. I think this is why so many people, myself included, don't care for it the first time and then like the show when they go back and give it a chance. When you build a connection to the characters the episodes become more interesting and you are willing to overlook the flaws in the stories.
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