The merged and improved (?) KIC 8462852 thread

[Asbo Zaprudder]

^ From General Relativity theory, using the Swartzschild metric, the maximum deflection angle for light rays grazing a body is given by 2GM/rc^2, where G = gravitational constant, M = deflecting mass, r = radius of deflecting body, and c = speed of light.

For the Sun, the maximum deflection angle is 0.875 seconds of arc - in other words, miniscule. The maximum deflection angle for Jupiter would be about 100 times smaller (M/r for Jupiter is about 1/100 compared to the Sun; G and c are constants). For the Earth, the maximum deflection angle would be about 3000 times smaller (M/r for Earth is about 1/3000 compared to the Sun). For a significant deflection, you need a really big mass and preferably a small radius. Assuming any matter in orbit around the star has a density similar to that of the Earth and is approximately spherical, M/r scales as r^2, so the angle of deflection would be 1/100 that for the Earth for a body with 1/10th the mass of Earth; 1/10000 for 1/100th the mass and so on.

Really, you're overthinking this. The dips are due to nothing more than light being blocked by opaque matter passing in front of the star (recent observations have demonstrated this). Any mystery lies in the depth of the dips and their lack of symmetry - neither of which observations your hypothesis would explain.

 

[Dryson]

I think I have it.

The top image is a sun that is not experiencing a planetary transit. When the light from the sun is not experiencing a planetary transit, light will strike the photographic plate at the same time. But when a planet is transiting, the light should bend slightly around the planet that is transiting causing a range of strikes to the plate from the photons. The range of strikes to the transiting planet plate based on the speed of light should come right after each other but not instantly like the unobstructed plate results. Since light is bent around a planet based on the planets mass, the mass of the object causing the dip in the light curve can be calculated by the number of strikes to the plate. Smaller grouped strikes that are very frequent could translate to a smaller planet such as Venus. Larger grouped strikes that are very frequent could then translate into a larger planet such Jupiter.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Both mass and radius - and the effect of microlensing by a planet intensifies the light very slightly along the line of sight rather than diminishing it. It's also not an asymmetric unless the occulting body/bodirs also is/are.

Please explain with mathematics the magnitude of the dips and the odd features of the time series series without contradicting the observational evidence. Even better, make some mathematical predictions of the time series that can be tested by observation. That's how science is supposed to work.

 

[Dryson]

After watching Interstellar last night I went back and created a similar binary representation from the dips in the light curve of KIC 8462.

Each period of time between each dip is labeled as A,B,C,D,etc.
Each period of dip is labeled as 1,2,3,4, etc.
Each period has been divided by Pi 3.14159265359

I have also included the Binary and Hexadecimal values for each period as well.
The binary is important because it establishes a value of zero's and one's that in a computer are used to turn off (0) and on (1) logic gates in computer that allows a current of electricity to pass through the logic gate to create the necessary function.

The Hexadecimal number is being used to convert the hex number into a RGB color code that webpages use to generate a color for the webpage. Once converted the color would then be compared to material interactions with light that would cause the light to change into the RGB color. Material that once determined could prove beneficial in determining if dust, comets or planets are causing the dips in the light of KIC 8462.

http://www.psyclops.com/tools/rgb/

The first letter of the Hex String corresponds to the Period of Time before or between each transit while the first number corresponds to the Period of Transit for each transit.

These values are approximate.

A starts at 0 and ends with the first dip beginning at day 15.

A = 4.774658292756546 = octal 4.61450001401733552453
100.110001100101
4.C6500180F6ED52A8ECD1
Hex String = A04C650

color =

1 = 3.183098861837697 = octal 3.13557621117034313044
11.00101110110111111001
3.2EDF91278719623C064B
Hex String = 1032EDF

color =

B = 6.366197723675394 = octal 6.2733744223607062611
110.0101110110111111001
6.5DBF224F0E32C4780C96
Hex String = B065DBF

color =

2 = 3.819718634205237 = octal 3.64354424453525216505
11.11010001110110010001
3.D1D91495D551D450E03E
Hex String = 203D1D9

color =

C= 1.591549430918849 = octal 1.45667710447416146522
1.10010111011011111101
1.976FC893C38CD5256263
Hex String = C01976F

color =

3 = 9.549296585513092 = octal 11.43117263355125143354
1001.10001100100111101011
9.8C9EB376954C6EC2D15C
Hex String = 3098C9E

color =

D = 8.276057040778013 = octal 10.21525654463743336452
1000.01000110101010111011
8.46ABAC99F8DBD2A7DBF2
Hex String = D0846AB

color =

4 = 4.774648292756546 = octal 4.61447531566452461566
100.1100011001001111011
4.C64F59BB4AA6376168AE
Hex String = 404C64F

color =

E = 5.729577951307855 = octal 5.56542636701377724647
101.1011101011000101101
5.BAC59EE0BFFA9A71F11F
Hex String = E05BAC5

color =

5 = 3.819718634205237 = octal 3.64354424453525216505
11.11010001110110010001
3.D1D91495D551D450E03E
Hex String = 503D1D9

color =

F = 1.591549430918849 = octal 1.45667710447416146522
1.10010111011011111101
1.976FC893C38CD5256263
Hex String = F01976F

color =

6 = 3.819718634205237 = octal 3.64354424453525216505
11.11010001110110010001
3.D1D91495D551D450E03E
Hex String = 603D1D9

color =

G = 19.41690305720995 = octal 23.32535050510506637545
10011.01101010101110100011
13.6ABA28A451B3F65515C3
Hex String = G13NANAB

color =

7 = 3.183098861837697 = octal 3.13557621117034313044
11.00101110110111111001
3.2EDF91278719623C064B
Hex String = 7032EDF

color =

The image below is an arrangement of the color values above where a letter denotes a Period of Time before or between a transit while a number denotes the transit itself.

The yellow number in the upper left hand corner of each color block represents a similar association with another color.

2,5 and 6 are transit values that are very close in their color scheme thus suggesting a planet.

1 and 7 are very similar suggesting a planet as well.

B,3 and A,4 along with C,F could be asteroids or dust.

E and D however do not have any similar color matches on the grid that although they are close they sit between two other values.

E sits between 2,5,6 and G while D sites between 1,7 and B,3

 

[Dryson]

http://www.sensationalcolor.com/und...mperature-warm-cool-relative-815#.WxV0o0gvy00

Color Temperature: If A Color Is Warm Or Cool May Be Relative
In understanding and defining color, the terms “warm” and “cool” are often used to describe a color. In general blue, green and purple are considered cool colors while yellow, orange and red hues are considered warm.

The color wheel above shows the relationship between the warm and cool colors.

The temperature of a color is based on its association with certain physiological and psychological feelings rather than actual temperature. For example: a warm orange feels cozy like a crackling fire or a cool blue feels as calming as a sea breeze.

When an object transits KIC 8462 it will cause some of the heat behind the object or between us and the object to be lost because the radiation has been adsorbed thus resulting in a cooler temperature.

The blue ranges, cooler zones, would mean that an object such as a large Jupiter like planet with a very large asteroid network orbiting it could be present.

The light blue zones would mean that less light from KIC 8462 is being adsorbed and could mean that light from KIC 8426 was passing through dust filaments.

The dark green and light green zones would mean even less light is being absorbed and that there is still something passing in between KIC 8426 and the Earth.

Interactions between KIC 8462 and the particles in orbit around Tabby's Star that are located behind the object and are between us would create a variable temperature range if planets are present and orbiting KIC 8462 at various distances.

As the objects orbit KIC 8462 and if dust is present, the temperature variances would mix together as KIC 8462 heats up the dust at various distances from itself that then mixed with other particles as the objects pass through the dust ring around KIC 8462.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Have you never heard of Wien's displacement law, the Stefan-Boltzmann law, or the black-body spectrum?

 

[Dryson]

Magnetospheric Multiscale (MMS)

Could the brightening of Tabby's Star be the result of magnetic-field lines of a potential planet orbiting KIC 8462 absorbing KIC 8462's energy then stretching and eventually snapping, releasing powerful bursts of particles towards the direction of Kepler?

https://www.space.com/40837-nasa-satellites-magnetic-discovery-turbulent-space.html

Is there anyway to detect and measure magnetic re-connection taking place as far away as KIC 8462 is from the Earth?


Is there any way to determine that a pattern of dispersed particles would be present in each transit that would further help to determine if there was a planet in the transit period?

Particles leaving Tabby's Star would leave the star at a determined rate of acceleration. Particles that encounter the magnetic field of a planet reconnect in the standard model reconnect at over tens of thousands of miles.

With such dispersion and re-connection taking place over a large area of tens of thousands of miles the turbulence of a planet transiting across KIC 8462 would leave a larger dispersion foot print compared to a dust band.

Its much like watching t.v. where the you can see the actors moving across the the screen in front of a non-moving back drop but the static is to much to see them in full detail.

The transit periods appear to be tens of thousands of miles wide based on the data. Could Magnetic Re-connection be causing the dips in the light curve of KIC 8462?


Dust could be the final answer

https://www.space.com/40836-tabbys-star-mystery-dimming-student-discovery.html

The article discusses that Tabby's Star might have consumed a planet in the past. If so then where has the dust been coming from since 1890 that caused the dip in the light curve of KIC 8462 to increase from 14% to 20%?

So where did the dust come from?


Where did the dust come from though?
Dust is usually indicative of a planetary body or swarm of comets in the system that has broken apart.

I doubt KIC 8462 would have a gravitational field strong enough to collect dust from outside of its own solar system.

Unless a black hole is pulling the dust towards itself and Tabby's Star trapped the dust on its way to the black hole.

One good thing though about this discussion is this; on page 14 the idea of dust creating the dips in the light curve of KIC 8462 was presented, nearly 2 years before the experts even thought about dust being the prime cause of the dips that has now only begun to be viewed as the popular consensus.

During the periods of brightening of Tabby's Star would the radiation pressure have increased that would have caused dust bands around KIC 8462852 to be blown out of the system thus creating a new light curve for KIC 8462?

The dust bands and the time periods of the dips in the light curve should have been effected very dramatically during the increase in brightness of Tabby's Star.

A theory about planet formation - Interesting how radiation pressure forces dust particles around.

Rocky planets, such as Earth could have be formed in the following manner.

The frequency ebb from the brightening of a sun would cause dust particles to clump together. The clumps of dust would have contained water and the building blocks of life. As the clump got larger and larger the clump would begin to spin as a result of the increase in pressure from the radiation due to the intense brightening of our Sun. The regions on the clump that did not have a lot of dust build up would spin faster than the other layers inside of the clump causing eventual plate tectonics. As each layer began to be compacted together due to the weight from the layer above it friction took place heating up the dust particles that fused them together into larger particles of different minerals. Slowly the core of the planet formed as a result of the weight of the upper layers pressing down on the dust particles that created friction. Much like heat is created due to friction when you put the breaks on and hold them while trying to move at a faster speed.

Because of plate tectonics material is constantly added to the core to maintain its size Once enough pressure is present the material is ejected back to the surface in the form of volcanoes.

What is really cool about this theory is that as the dust particles containing water and the other components needed for life continued to experience friction, those elements and components that life needed was squeezed to the surface of Earth from the weight being placed on each layer. Friction also helped evaporate the water that rapidly expanded upwards to the surface.

Pores on the Earth much like the pores on our arms then allowed the Earth to sweat The sweat then rapidly cooled the surface of the Earth much like sweat is produced to cool the surface of our skin where bacteria lives.

 

[Dryson]

I think the end result of Tabby's Star has been determined to be optically thin dust.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

As there is less dimming at IR wavelengths than in UV, this does indeed suggest fine dust particles. Larger particles would cause equal dimming at both wavelengths.

 

[Dryson]

HATNet Exoplanet Survey - The HATNet Exoplanet Survey has discovered 61 planets to date. The table below lists these planets, their orbital periods, masses, and radii, and provides links to HATNet lightcurves from which they were discovered. A description of the light curve file format and Python modules to read these light curves are discussed below. Click on any table column header below to sort by that column.

https://hatnet.org/planets/discovery-hatlcs.html

 

[Dryson]

Researchers Find a Second 'Dyson Sphere' Star

https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-just-found-a-second-dyson-sphere-star


Named EPIC 204278916, the star is estimated to be about the size of our Sun in diameter, but has only half its mass.

It was discovered by NASA's Kepler spacecraft in 2014, and ever since, a team of astronomers led by Simone Scaringi from the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Germany have been keeping tabs on its dips in light, or 'light curves'.

And this thing is even stranger than KIC 8462852.

The researchers report that over 78.8 days of observations, EPIC 204278916 displayed irregular dimming of up to 65 percent for around 25 consecutive days.

As we mentioned above, something as huge as a planet orbiting a star will cause it to dim just 1 percent, so what could possibly be big enough to cause a dimming of 65 percent?

https://arxiv.org/abs/1608.07291

Based on the data from KIC 8462852 the immense dip of the light curve of EPIC 2042 would be optically thin dust
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPIC_204278916

KIC 8462852 is 1,276.57 light years from Earth. EPIC 2042 is about 420 light years from Earth. The interesting question is; should most suns at a greater distance from Earth that have a dip in its light curve that is very large be considered suns that have optically thin dust in orbit around the sun? The next question is: why are solar systems closer to Earth nearly devoid of dust around their star unlike EPIC and KIC are? What are these suns and solar systems at a greater distance from Earth that are more than 50 light away and have dust orbiting the sun telling us about the formation of our own solar system and the systems as far out as HD 40307 g?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_terrestrial_exoplanet_candidates

 

[Dryson]

Here's Why Astronomers Are So Worried About SpaceX's Planned 'Megaconstellation'

The first is that none of the telescopes collecting data from the sky are prepared to deal with this many bright, artificial dots flitting across their fields of view.
"When we develop new, big facilities, big observatories, big surveys to go and do things like discover hazardous asteroids, we design them to within an inch of their lives. We do so to make sure that every [risk] is accounted for," he said. "This is one of those confounding factors that, generally speaking, we haven't prepared for because it hasn't been an issue up ‘til now."

Machine Learning could be used to collect the amount of sunlight blocked by each car and the amount of sunlight that passes between each car to create a refined learning process for the telescope looking at a star with a transiting planet or transiting object.

Because ML learns from itself unlike a telescope, the data collected from observing the Starlink Train could then be super imposed over a light curve. As the ML scans the light curve of a transiting object it would be learning the new light curve while searching for data that would suggest smaller objects orbiting the sun were present based on the data that it collected from observing the Starlink Train.

Since ML can be trained to learn based on a layered approach and smaller objects, such as Dyson Satellites orbiting a sun, would block and allow smaller amounts of light by each car as the train passes between the sun and telescope, then ML should be able too quickly refine objects present in the light curve that would normally be missed by simple light curve data observation telescope.

The light curve of the StarLink train would be considerable smaller than a transiting planet and even very large asteroid or swarm of asteroids, but training ML to dig deep within the light curve itself will be a fundamental leap forward for Astronomy.

https://www.space.com/spacex-astronomers-starlink.html

 

[Dryson]

Machine Learning...

With machine learning sifting through the light curve data of a transiting planet by learning how the smaller differences in the light curve created by smaller objects that would be hidden in the overal light curve data, astronomers might be able to determine what light is being absorbed and reflected around a planet creating a halo of sorts.

A halo that would be different between planets such as the moon, Mars or Netpune and ultimatly Earth.

 

[publiusr]

More on the similar dimming star
http://forum.cosmoquest.org/showthr...Starlight-1-500-LY-Away&p=2484991#post2484991

The light of EPIC 204376071, a star just 440 light-years from Earth, dimmed by up to 80 percent for an entire day.

 

[Dryson]

https://gizmodo.com/freaky-star-seems-to-dim-randomly-and-astronomers-dont-1836045295

The cause is most likely dust particles similar to KIC 8462852.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

No kidding. If it were an alien megastructure, the small sample size would suggest that there were many tens of thousands of similar structures in our Galaxy alone. But it's just dust...

 

[StarCruiser]

^ Of which there is untold quantities all over creation...

 

[publiusr]

Forget Tabby’s Star.

The real oddball is VVV-WIT-08
The Giant Star that blinked. (It and -07)
https://arxiv.org/labs/2106.05300

Over at the astronomy thread at THE BAR over at Secret Projects Forum…there is a video suggesting whatever the occulting body is, it has a sharp edge and dimmed the Star by 97%

Rats try arXiv:2106.05300

 

[Dryson]

Forget Tabby’s Star.

The real oddball is VVV-WIT-08
The Giant Star that blinked. (It and -07)
https://arxiv.org/labs/2106.05300

Over at the astronomy thread at THE BAR over at Secret Projects Forum…there is a video suggesting whatever the occulting body is, it has a sharp edge and dimmed the Star by 97%

Rats try arXiv:2106.05300

Really?

The arXiv link doesn't work.

New link https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.05300

The paper reports a 97% dip in the light curve of the star that has only been detected once, over the past 17 years.

With VVV-WIT-08 being a late stage star, a circumstellar dust disc might not be possible, as all of the debris should have been cleared out by the stars gravity. There could be a black hole close to VVV-WIT-08 that is causing the anomalies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VVV-WIT-07

If you look at the inset image that shows VVV-WIT-08 near a somewhat darker region of space that doesn't have any stars, the darker region could be effecting the light curve of the star.

Im not certain what causes the dark curved region, maybe an area of space that that contains a large volume of Remnant Space or space - time that existed prior to the Big Bang.

Remnant Space, not to be confused with Void, Primordial or Pre-Big Bang Space, would have pockets of energy and possibly particles that were left behind after the Big Bang. Void Particles would interact with Einstein Space-Time based particles very differently and possibly appear to more be like a black hole when transiting across star, without consuming the star itself.

Then there is also the possibility of an alien structure.

Tabby's Star is approx. 1,400 ly from Earth. The reason for the dip in the light curve of Tabby's Star has been determined to be dust.

23,000 light years is very far away. For Earth based astronomers to capture the 17 year dip in the stars light curve, means that something huge is transiting VVV-WIT-07.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Yeah, that link doesn't work for me either. Here's a link to the abstract from the Monthly Notices of the RAS:

We report the serendipitous discovery of a late-type giant star that exhibited a smooth, eclipse-like drop in flux to a depth of 97 per cent. Minimum flux occurred in 2012 April and the total event duration was a few hundred days. Light curves in V, I, and Ks from the Optical Gravitational Lensing Experiment and VISTA Variables in the Via Lactea surveys show a remarkably achromatic event. During 17 yr of observational coverage of this source only one such event was detected. The physical properties of the giant star itself appear somewhat unusual, which may ultimately provide a clue towards the nature of the system. By modelling the event as an occultation by an object that is elliptical in projection with uniform transparency, we place limits on its physical size and velocity. We find that the occultation is unlikely to be due to a chance alignment with a foreground object. We consider a number of possible candidates for the occulter, which must be optically thick and possess a radius or thickness in excess of 0.25 au. None are completely satisfactory matches to all the data. The duration, depth, and relative achromaticity of the dip mark this out as an exceptionally unusual event, whose secret has still not been fully revealed. We find two further candidates in the VVV survey and we suggest that these systems, and two previously known examples, may point to a broad class of long-period eclipsing binaries wherein a giant star is occulted by a circumsecondary disc.

VVV-WIT-08: the giant star that blinked | Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society | Oxford Academic (oup.com)
Apparently, several such objects have been observed. The suggestion is that the occulting object might be an optically opaque disc around a second star orbiting the first.

ETA: Found the preprint:
2106.05300.pdf (arxiv.org)