The merged and improved (?) KIC 8462852 thread

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Dryson, Oct 20, 2015.

  1. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have been reading comments from the 'professionals' that are still calling the dips in the light curve of Tabby's Star the result of an alien mega-structure.

    No intelligent, sentient life form capable of building a Dyson Swarm would ever build something so large around their sun. The resources used would be extreme to say the least.

    But what about building smaller mega-structures, lets say the size of our Moon or Mars in orbit around the Super Gas Giant? Could smaller mega-structures built within the rings of the Super Gas Giant cause the dips that are being detected at KIC 8462?

    Could the continued decrease in KIC 8462's light curve over the past century be attributed to the facilities in orbit around a Super Gas Giant having new structures added to them that could possibly cause the dips to occur?

    For the sake of conversation, how much light from KIC 8462 would be blocked by a transiting Super Gas Giant if various mega-structures were built a million kilometers above and below the ring network orbiting the Super Gas Giant that was then connected to each other with structural framework?

    A million kilometers in either direction is a lot of distance to cover with truss work connected to mega-structures for any number of uses that would add to overall dips in the light of KIC 8462 as the Super Gas Giant made its transit.
     
  2. Tetragillis

    Tetragillis All hail Doctor 13 Premium Member

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    OK let's assume these things are structures. Why couldn't they be a mass of smaller structures all combined. Maybe they're ambitious and are mining the star.
     
  3. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why do you need trusses in a microgravity environment? Just use station-keeping thrusters. Or do these aliens have hernias?
     
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  4. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Highly unlikely that they would be mining the star. Harvesting the raw atoms and then compressing those atoms into minerals is a complete waste of time and resources.

    A smaller mass of structures in orbit around the Super Gas Giant mining the rocks in the Gas Giants rings as well as the gas thermal and radiation from the Gas Giant is more resourceful and much safer.

    " You don't mine the torch in the tunnel when the minerals are all around you."
     
  5. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    Trusses would require little if any maintenance, and no propellant, assuming such a species capable of building a structure did not primarily utilize propellant-less methods.

    If you did want to avoid trusses one might well simple use gigantic solar sails for station keeping around this kind of swarm for station keeping and power, with enough of them leading to the darkening, brightening.

    Or forgoing all that, if you wanted to heat up/cool down various parts of your world, you could also construct incredibly large fresnel lenses in solar orbit to concentrate or divert sunlight on planetary and moon bodies throughout your solar system, which again could cause perceived brightening and dimming to far observers.
     
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  6. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Station keeping could also use the momentum of particles in the solar wind, solar radiation pressure or electromagnetic field interaction with any magnetic field present in the solar wind. Fresnel lenses, perhaps but mirrored surfaces or perhaps holographic lenses would have a smaller mass.

    Directed radiation might also be used to create localised heating of a star's photosphere and drive off some of the star's mass to extend its life. One could perhaps capture solar wind particles for propellant reaction mass in station keeping.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  7. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Direct EM manipulation of the chromosphere might also be a possible way to increase the particle flux in the solar wind but it would be technically problematic as the machinery required would have to survive a hostile thermal and radiation environment
     
  8. Tetragillis

    Tetragillis All hail Doctor 13 Premium Member

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  9. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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  10. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    All structural assemblies require trusses.
     
  11. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am serious thinking that was is taking place on KIC 8462852 is that there are areas of the sun that are opening up and allowing the solar winds to escape that are present across different regions of KIC 846852 that remain constantly open.

    Based on the article linked below, if a Sun had an area that opens up that is 30% of the area that is being viewed then it might possible that a dim in the light curve would take place.

    The increase in brightness of KIC 8462852 could be the solar winds interacting with a planet that may not may not have an atmosphere.

    I think this is a very good explanation for the events taking place at KIC 8462852 because an alien mega structure would have been discovered already as would a large swarm of comets or a Super Gas Giant with a large asteroid belt orbiting it or in tow of the the Super Gas Giant.

    https://www.livescience.com/60991-nasa-spots-new-hole-in-sun.html?utm_source=notification
     
  12. think

    think Vice Admiral Admiral

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  13. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I suspect Google have trained a neural network to look for planet transit signals in the data. What they've found is another question.

    ETA: There should be about 11,600 G-type stars in the Kepler search list of 145,000 Main Sequence stars so the probability of detecting planetary transits for a solar system similar to ours would be about 0.5% for an Earth-sized planet at 1 AU, yielding only 58 candidates. The length of the time series data set would probably miss distant gas giants that take one or more decades to orbit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  14. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Here is another reason why I think that a Dyson Swarm is really not feasible. Other than the immense size and resources it would take to build, what happens when the sun goes nova? You lose your entire civilization.

    Titan's nearly endless oceans would be able to provide liquid hydrogen for thousands of years for space travel.

    This is an idea for a methane to hydrogen fuel and rocket system that would take advantage of the methane oceans on Titan.

    First the system would produce its own methane gas by using cow manure and other biomass on Earth that creates methane gas through methanogenesis.
    Methanogenesis or biomethanation is the formation of methane by microbes known as methanogens. Organisms capable of producing methane have been identified only from the domain Archaea, a group phylogenetically distinct from both eukaryotes and bacteria, although many live in close association with anaerobic bacteria. The production of methane is an important and widespread form of microbial metabolism. In most environments, it is the final step in the decomposition of biomass.
    The methane gas is collected and then converted into methanol in a second stage. A third stage purifies the methanol into liquid methane. The liquid methane is then stored in containment tanks prior to being into a pure methane gas via a solid proton-conducting electrolyte device.
    Another stage then converts the methane gas into hydrogen gas. The sixth stage also generates waste heat that is used to heat water for use elsewhere on the ship or planetary facility.
    Stage seven converts the hydrogen gas into liquid hydrogen that is then stored in tanks prior to being used as the main fuel for the rocket engine.
    Because there is always excess cow manure and other biomass that is readily available the initial methane production system would be fueled by cow and other livestock manure from Earth.
    Generating the necessary cow manure would be easy seeing as how countries like India have a "Non-aggressive pact with cattle". Indian Cattle Manure could bought from India to help boost their space program as well as their economy.
    Cattle could also be raised to feed poorer nations like North Korea and Africa that generate nearly an infinite source of biomass.
    Once near Titan an orbital refueling station would fill the Liquid Methane storage tanks of the ship up for continued travel between Titan and Earth or Titan and outer solar system destinations. The liquid methane would come from the nearly endless liquid methane oceans of Titan. Once the the liquid methane storage tanks had been filled the ship would continue on its route deeper into the Sol system or return back to Earth.Once in Earth orbit the ship would be resupplied with cow manure and then continue its route from Earth orbit.

    [​IMG]


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    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  15. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A diagram that contains the phrase "cow manure" seems appropriate somehow.
     
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  16. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ It is, literally, fueled by bullshit
     
  17. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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  18. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The updated version adds a carbon dioxide quencher block that converts carbon dioxide directly into liquid methane as a result of converting the liquid methane into a hydrogen gas. [​IMG][/IMG]

    1 - Methanogenesis or biomethanation is the formation of methane by microbes known as methanogens. Organisms capable of producing methane have been identified only from the domain Archaea, a group phylogenetically distinct from both eukaryotes and bacteria, although many live in close association with anaerobic bacteria. The production of methane is an important and widespread form of microbial metabolism. In most environments, it is the final step in the decomposition of biomass.

    Biomass is the mass of living biological organisms in a given area or ecosystem at a given time. Biomass can refer to species biomass, which is the mass of one or more species, or to community biomass, which is the mass of all species in the community. It can include microorganisms, plants or animals.[4] The mass can be expressed as the average mass per unit area, or as the total mass in the community.

    http://lsa.colorado.edu/essence/texts/biomass.html


    https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/21/tiny-engine-turns-natural-gas-into-hydrogen/

    2 - Conversion of methane to a liquid fuel is a more desirable alternative to compressed natural gas due to ease of storage. The two-step process produces liquid methanol by the steam reforming of methane to synthesis gas followed by the high pressure catalytic conversion of the synthesis gas to methanol.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705813000581

    3 - Scrubbers purify the methanol to create a better liquid methane.

    4 - Liquid methane is stored in containers prior to being converted into liquid hydrogen.

    5 - Liquid methane is then converted back into a methane gas that is nearly 100% free of contaminants.

    6 - Methane gas is then converted into hydrogen gas. The waste heat is used to heat water piping as well as providing a temperature mixture variable for temperature conditioning units.

    A team from the Georgia Institute of Technology has created a four-stroke "engine" that converts natural gas(methane) into hydrogen from just about anywhere, while capturing the CO2.Feb 21, 2017

    https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/21/tiny-engine-turns-natural-gas-into-hydrogen/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_reformer

    6a - During the process of converting methane into hydrogen carbon dioxide is created. Carbon dioxide can also be converted directly into methanol fuel to create a secondary source of fuel if needed.

    https://phys.org/news/2016-01-carbon-dioxide-captured-air-methanol.html

    7 - Converts hydrogen gas into liquid hydrogen - https://sciencing.com/liquefy-hydrogen-5220130.html

    8 - Liquid hydrogen is then stored in container tanks prior to being used as fuel.

    9 - Liquid hydrogen is then used to provide propellent to the rocket engine.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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  20. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just wasted 80 seconds of my life reading that "updated" post on the proposed bullshit engine, and I am forced to pose the following question:

    What are they using for oxidizer?