The Melting Pot

[Sean Aaron]

Bof, I find London interesting but very unpleasant.

I found it a bit mental myself. Very busy traffic and no pedestrian crossing indictors. There's not even that many zebra crossings and I felt like I had to look over both shoulders before stepping off the kerb regardless of what colour the light was!

There are a lot of ethnic restaurants though, which is pretty cool.

 

[iBender]

I just like comming home to London if I've been to somewhere else in the UK; and arriving home late at night with stuff still open and people still out. I've ALWAYS said, If I had to be from this Gosh Forsaken Island, then thank 'fudge' it's from London.

 

[Canadave]

Bof, I find London interesting but very unpleasant.

Really? Why's that? People too friendly?

Yeah, if they walk on your feet they say sorry, they don't come back to also walk on your face. I'm not used to that

Never come here, then. If you walk on our feet, we'll apologize because it means we probably got in your way, and then ask if you need help finding your way back to your hotel. You'd be terribly confused by it all.

 

[Count Zero]

Bof, I find London interesting but very unpleasant.

Really? Why's that? People too friendly?

Yeah, if they walk on your feet they say sorry, they don't come back to also walk on your face. I'm not used to that

You should really visit me here in Berlin one day. You'll feel right at home.

I found it a bit mental myself. Very busy traffic and no pedestrian crossing indictors. There's not even that many zebra crossings and I felt like I had to look over both shoulders before stepping off the kerb regardless of what colour the light was!

Sounds like Athens where you can't even safely cross the street when the lights are green.

 

[Shaytan]

Bof, I find London interesting but very unpleasant.

I found it a bit mental myself.

It's exactly my thought. Paris is also a busy place but it's also a place of pleasure. When I'm back from London, sitting at a café doing nothing except drinking is like a luxury.

There are a lot of ethnic restaurants though, which is pretty cool.

I was not impressed. Nothing I can't find in Paris.

Never come here, then. If you walk on our feet, we'll apologize because it means we probably got in your way, and then ask if you need help finding your way back to your hotel. You'd be terribly confused by it all.

I would find that terribly suspicious

Really? Why's that? People too friendly?

Yeah, if they walk on your feet they say sorry, they don't come back to also walk on your face. I'm not used to that

You should really visit me here in Berlin one day. You'll feel right at home.

I will do that one day

 

[iBender]

The majority of the French citizens don't want to see full face veils. By banning them, the state is doing exactly what the citizens want. The laws are never made for the individuals but the majority.
I think this law is very anecdotic since no one discuss it anymore (no one cares anymore actually, if someone really ever cared ).
You're only basing your opinion on something very anecdotic.

The rights of minorities -- this is why I like USA and Britain.

But I adore Paris (what I've seen of it), for being united rather than divided over race and sect and stuff. -- Saw some race riots in Paris the other year, but London had those in the 1980s and Los Angeles also had them (Don't know when.) so, there was some tension in Paris, but, like London, I guess the Race Riots in Paris were down racist people working for the Police and people dieing at the hand of it...

 

[Shaytan]

They were not race riots but social riots.

 

[iBender]

I thought it was a bunch of pissed off Moroccans who were rioting because a police officer shot somebody dead by mistake. Well I do remember the headlines saying Race Riots, here, in the British media.

 

[Canadave]

The majority of the French citizens don't want to see full face veils. By banning them, the state is doing exactly what the citizens want. The laws are never made for the individuals but the majority.
I think this law is very anecdotic since no one discuss it anymore (no one cares anymore actually, if someone really ever cared ).
You're only basing your opinion on something very anecdotic.

The rights of minorities -- this is why I like USA and Britain.

But I adore Paris (what I've seen of it), for being united rather than divided over race and sect and stuff. -- Saw some race riots in Paris the other year, but London had those in the 1980s and Los Angeles also had them (Don't know when.) so, there was some tension in Paris, but, like London, I guess the Race Riots in Paris were down racist people working for the Police and people dieing at the hand of it...

It wasn't just LA that had race riots, you know...

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXL3iEVnCM[/yt]

 

[Shaytan]

I thought it was a bunch of pissed off Moroccans who were rioting because a police officer shot somebody dead by mistake. Well I do remember the headlines saying Race Riots, here, in the British media.

It's the way some foreign medias presented it but that's not the truth. Poor suburb against police doesn't mean race riot but social riot, officially.
Now, if you want the unofficial truth that's more : stupid teenagers against police.

 

[Count Zero]

Just watch La Haine, iBender. I think it gives a good view of what the problem is with the banlieues and its youth.

 

[iBender]

Well I'm just thinking now... About what Shaytan said, about it being social...
Both black people and white people took part in the Brixton riot, but that WAS racially sparked, I guess, if the Paris one wasn't because the guy was North African but still living in a ghetto, people just; Used it as an excuse to f*#k sh*t up/ like Anarchy.

Also;
"Oh yeah"
@ Canadave, but I meant the LA Riot . I'm just going to say that was in the 90s, but I don't know. - Googles LA Riot and 19 and see's what comes up.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The majority of the French citizens don't want to see full face veils. By banning them, the state is doing exactly what the citizens want. The laws are never made for the individuals but the majority.

See, this I disagree with. Laws are made to protect everyone, not just the majority. Otherwise, Democracy becomes oppressive. It just becomes Athens and Sparta where the faction in charge oppressed everyone else. There needs to be recognized rights that a bare majority cannot take away simply by being in the majority. Now whether the face veils are one is a question I can't answer. At a minimum, however, there needs to be a justification for a law that goes beyond "the majority wants it."

I mean, the Hutus had the majority in Rwanda. Their desire to kill of the minority would help contribute to uniformity and assimilation, but certainly isn't supported by any rule of law.

 

[Count Zero]

Sparta was never a democracy and never made any pretenses in that direction, though.

France has its problems, like every country, but it does respect the rights of minorities. It isn't the only European country to ban burkas/niqabs or thinking about such a ban. Usually, the argument is that it's an instrument to oppress women. You and I might not agree with it, and in the case of France, I think the courts will probably have to decide whether the law is constitutional or not, but comparing France with Ruanda is a bit much. It's almost like a Godwin.

 

[Shaytan]

See, this I disagree with. Laws are made to protect everyone, not just the majority. Otherwise, Democracy becomes oppressive. It just becomes Athens and Sparta where the faction in charge oppressed everyone else. There needs to be recognized rights that a bare majority cannot take away simply by being in the majority. Now whether the face veils are one is a question I can't answer. At a minimum, however, there needs to be a justification for a law that goes beyond "the majority wants it."

Laws are made to protect everyone from what the majority sees as unadapted. A democracy is always a liitle oppressive to someone, it's the will of the majority, not the will of everyone. And frankly, in a secular society like ours, no one cares about the religious right of a very little minority of unstable religious fanatics who think it's ok the oppress women.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You can't make friends with salad.

Lettuce agree to disagree on that point.

 

[Shaytan]

I think the courts will probably have to decide whether the law is constitutional or not

It's the role of the Constitutional Council, the law was validated.

 

[Count Zero]

Didn't some people want to sue? I remember reading something like that.

 

[Shaytan]

I don't remember that. I don't really know xhat can be done against a law like that. Sounds more like a big waste of time.

 

[Count Zero]

I think the idea was to get a fine for wearing it and then fight it all the way to the highest court. I'm not sure what the current state of that project is, though.

And it's never a waste of time to fight against a law you don't agree with. It can even be fun and rewarding. I know that from my own experience.

By the way, apparently I was wrong about other European countries having passed similar laws. Some considered it, some are still considering it and in some countries the process of passing a law had progressed considerably before it failed.