Oh dear I am so deeply sorry I just don't understand what you'd like me to do?Errr, please continue with your example... it's for a, uhmm, friend....
The Measure of a Man - Thoughts
- Thread starter Superbread
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I was just joking
. I imagined a toaster involved in a (absolutely consensual!!!) BDSM roleplay. I have even a title for the book based on this (and the movie!)Fifty Shades of Crisp
...I'll see my way out...
On a little more serious note, this is one of the themes of Westworld where (spoiler?) the human guests often like to make the robotic hosts suffer.
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When my toaster starts speaking to me I'll have much larger concerns than whether I should be digging crumbs out of it!
If my toaster says that to me,
I'd leave the house in my PJ's if necessary, bringing my doggies of course and my keys and wallet.
I'd have that house up for sale "as is" within the hour.
On the flip side, I don't think my toaster would say this because it has a little trap door on its bottom for the crumbs to fall out.
I don't dig on my poor toasters innards.
I open the little trap door and shake her gently.
After all it's a Hello Kitty toaster. I don't want to hurt or insult her.
"My wife asked why I carried a gun around the house. I told her fear of CIA. She Laughed, I laughed, the Amazon Echo Laughed. I shot the Echo" - Ron Futrell
If we would not recognize a creature as sentient that had the exact same brain as Data but looked like a box on wheels, that's a critique of our capacity for empathy, not an argument not to extend it to Data.
People need to worry less about AI rebelling and more about tyrants getting really good at AI.
Look, AI rebelling is a great scifi concept that leads to really good stories. But even if somehow it did rebel, we'd still have our hands on the power cord. No, cylons aren't going to kill us all, but a really awful person or government might learn how to make an army of killer robots capable of identifying dissenters or people of a given ethnic background, which are also good at predicting hiding places.
People need to worry less about AI rebelling and more about tyrants getting really good at AI.
Look, AI rebelling is a great scifi concept that leads to really good stories. But even if somehow it did rebel, we'd still have our hands on the power cord. No, cylons aren't going to kill us all, but a really awful person or government might learn how to make an army of killer robots capable of identifying dissenters or people of a given ethnic background, which are also good at predicting hiding places.
It was a good episode but I agree with what Skipper said earlier. All the legal issues would have been sorted out long ago, before Data could hold a commission in Starfleet if not much earlier.
As far as Riker acting as legal counsel, that might go back to old models of courts-martial, where the law was straightforward enough that it could basically be read out of a manual by anyone. Prosecutors and defense counsel (called "prisoner's friend" or "friend of the accused" in the British services) were just regular officers, and a neutral judge advocate with legal training would be assigned to the court to advise on procedure and legal technicalities. Of course since WW2 things have become much more complex and lawyers handle it. And in TOS that was how it was done, too. But perhaps some writer on this episode had been reading about courts-martial from the old days.
As far as Riker acting as legal counsel, that might go back to old models of courts-martial, where the law was straightforward enough that it could basically be read out of a manual by anyone. Prosecutors and defense counsel (called "prisoner's friend" or "friend of the accused" in the British services) were just regular officers, and a neutral judge advocate with legal training would be assigned to the court to advise on procedure and legal technicalities. Of course since WW2 things have become much more complex and lawyers handle it. And in TOS that was how it was done, too. But perhaps some writer on this episode had been reading about courts-martial from the old days.
Interestingly, the writer of the episode, Melinda Snodgrass, was a practicing lawyer for three years before deciding to pursue writing instead (Source).
Kor
Yes, empathy can supplant logic. Data serves as a ambassador to AI lifeforms because of how "human" he appears on screen. We wouldn't give a rip about Exocomps, for example.
I thought it worked fine within the constraints of a 1 hour tv drama myself.
Now I have a theory that can explain any apparent contradiction or inconsistency in the episode.
The real baddie isn't Maddox (who is just someone a little too much involved in his work and saw the light at the end of the episode).
It's the JAG.
She, for some reason, had a grudge against Picard (probably because he had made her look bad during the Court-martial - a theory shared even by some novels ) and the Data's thing was a great occasion for her to take revenge on her ancient enemy.
First, she said that Maddox's request had merit, against common sense and the opinion of every living being who met Data, including a panel of expert which decided if he could attend the Academy. It was clear that she didn't have any expertise in that particular field or that she didn't even bother to ask an opinion to other experts. To support the merits of her assessment (which, remember, was in contrast with the opinion of the rest of the universe about Data's status), she had to resort to an old three-century law.
When Picard asked for a hearing, this was a great opportunity for her to make life even more miserable for him. She organized it in great haste, without giving Picard the opportunity to prepare properly or to call expert witnesses (the only real expert there was Maddox). She forced friends to stand against each other, knowing that it would bring discomfort and hostility.
Her every apparent illogical and unmotivated decision had only one purpose: to make Picard suffer. And for a while she succeed. Besides, she almost certainly had foreseen that Picard would have lost the trial (after all it was she who should have decided!).
Only at this point something happen that she probably had not foreseen: Picard's incredibly good job in defending Data's rights, which managed to convince Maddox himself.
Now she knew that if she had ruled against the android after a similar defense, her career would have been in danger because it was obvious that Picard would not stop there.
She would have to explain her seemingly absurd decisions to many other people and, considering her behavior during the previous court martial, she would look too much suspicious.
So she had to play nice, but with the satisfaction of knowing that perhaps she had brought chaos and suspicion to the Enterprise bridge.
The real baddie isn't Maddox (who is just someone a little too much involved in his work and saw the light at the end of the episode).
It's the JAG.
She, for some reason, had a grudge against Picard (probably because he had made her look bad during the Court-martial - a theory shared even by some novels ) and the Data's thing was a great occasion for her to take revenge on her ancient enemy.
First, she said that Maddox's request had merit, against common sense and the opinion of every living being who met Data, including a panel of expert which decided if he could attend the Academy. It was clear that she didn't have any expertise in that particular field or that she didn't even bother to ask an opinion to other experts. To support the merits of her assessment (which, remember, was in contrast with the opinion of the rest of the universe about Data's status), she had to resort to an old three-century law.
When Picard asked for a hearing, this was a great opportunity for her to make life even more miserable for him. She organized it in great haste, without giving Picard the opportunity to prepare properly or to call expert witnesses (the only real expert there was Maddox). She forced friends to stand against each other, knowing that it would bring discomfort and hostility.
Her every apparent illogical and unmotivated decision had only one purpose: to make Picard suffer. And for a while she succeed. Besides, she almost certainly had foreseen that Picard would have lost the trial (after all it was she who should have decided!).
Only at this point something happen that she probably had not foreseen: Picard's incredibly good job in defending Data's rights, which managed to convince Maddox himself.
Now she knew that if she had ruled against the android after a similar defense, her career would have been in danger because it was obvious that Picard would not stop there.
She would have to explain her seemingly absurd decisions to many other people and, considering her behavior during the previous court martial, she would look too much suspicious.
So she had to play nice, but with the satisfaction of knowing that perhaps she had brought chaos and suspicion to the Enterprise bridge.
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Louvois may be to blame for a lot of it, but Maddox was pretty ruthless too, until the end. If what you're hearing is that an entire career in Starfleet is being thrown away, just to escape your unproven research, that ought to register, before it gets litigious.
The other thing to consider is what kind of jagoffs backed him up back at HQ. Something tells me there's a group of jerks that had been vying & lobbying to position themselves for this grab. This doesn't come out of nowhere. In fact, if there's people supporting Maddox, it's highly plausible they staged this whole thing, thinking they could slip it through, out at some station in the middle of nowhere, where the judge advocate was rolled over, with nothing to say about it, & no one to turn to. It's all very fishy
The other thing to consider is what kind of jagoffs backed him up back at HQ. Something tells me there's a group of jerks that had been vying & lobbying to position themselves for this grab. This doesn't come out of nowhere. In fact, if there's people supporting Maddox, it's highly plausible they staged this whole thing, thinking they could slip it through, out at some station in the middle of nowhere, where the judge advocate was rolled over, with nothing to say about it, & no one to turn to. It's all very fishy
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