That deserves a quiet golf clap of appreciation.
Spoilers The Mandalorian Season 3
- Thread starter JD
- Start date
As much as I enjoyed The Rise of Skywalker, I have to admit, the whole way they handled Palpatine's return was just a complete shitshow. In a franchise like this you don't bring back the biggest big bad of all, and then just skim over how it happened with a 30 second "maybe it was this, or maybe it was that" conversation.
As for the last episode, I loved it.
I loved them turning IG-11 into a mech for Grogu, and the whole yes/no thing was hilarious.
The meeting between Gideon and the Shadown Council gave us a nice set up for Thrawn's return, and the appearances of Pellaeon and Hux Sr. made this old EU and sequel trilogy fan very happy.
The big Empire base on Mandalore was a surprise.
Damn, I'm sad to Paz Vizla die, he was awesome. But at least he got one hell of a heroic death.
As for the last episode, I loved it.
I loved them turning IG-11 into a mech for Grogu, and the whole yes/no thing was hilarious.
The meeting between Gideon and the Shadown Council gave us a nice set up for Thrawn's return, and the appearances of Pellaeon and Hux Sr. made this old EU and sequel trilogy fan very happy.
The big Empire base on Mandalore was a surprise.
Damn, I'm sad to Paz Vizla die, he was awesome. But at least he got one hell of a heroic death.
if only the movie had more than one word, or some images.You mean "Somehow"?! Yeah, that was outstanding movie making right there!!
In conjunction with the cloning tech witnessed when Kylo Ren first met Palpatine, it was a mystery that was explained at the climax of the movie with the surprise twist and revelation that the Sith transfer their spirits and powers into the apprentice's body when apprentice kills master, something that had not happened with Palpatine, because Luke had refused to do in ROTJ and because Vader did not do it either, or didn't do in the "right way," because he'd simply chucked Palps down a very deep shaft into the main reactor.You mean "Somehow"?! Yeah, that was outstanding movie making right there!!
Also, it was pretty clearly implied in ROTJ that Palpatine's spirit survived the disintegration of his body, because his death cry continued well after his vocal cords had been incinerated, while a weird blueish glow whooshed back up out of the reactor chasm. Strange how people didn't consider that important.
Poe's clunky line was neither the beginning nor the end of the film's disclosures about how the Emperor had come back from the dead.
I mean...
Yeah, this. It had plenty of both, more than enough to make it clear.
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edited to add:
We've had Force ghosts since Obi-Wan shouted, "Run, Luke! Run!" and visible Force ghosts since Obi-Wan told Luke to seek Yoda in the Dagobah system. Was nobody wondering what Palpatine's Force ghost was up to, or if he even had one too?
Luke's Force ghost even managed to lift his own X-wing out of the sea, something else TROS did to help explain Palpatine's return by establishing that even Force ghosts can interact consequentially with the material world....
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I don't think anyone is questioning whether general premise was sound within established lore; just that the execution was sloppy and bordering on feckless.
I wouldn't even give it that much credit. It just made some vague, flailing gestures in the general direction of "magic clones" and kept on chugging as if that was any kind of explanation for the various brands of nonsense going on in that script.
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Having Palpatine's ominous message to the galaxy be released to the public inside a video game that wasn't even a Star Wars game was just monumentally weird and the height of pandering that even SW itself can't reach most of the time. But fine, whatever, popular kids' video game now has a plot point of a 42-year-old blockbuster franchise hidden within it.
Can't wait for a major plot point for an upcoming season of streaming Trek to be hidden in lyrics of an Arctic Monkeys song.
Can't wait for a major plot point for an upcoming season of streaming Trek to be hidden in lyrics of an Arctic Monkeys song.
Well, despite the pre-PT EU going all in on "Sith spirits", around the time of ROTS the idea was Sith don't ghost. ( An argument could be made that this was implied by the OT. After all, Anakin's appearance as a ghost was taken as evidence of his redemption. )CorporalCaptain said:
This wasn't explicit in ROTS but made it into the script and novelization.
In the script Qui-Gon says: With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.
In the novelization he says: The ultimate goal of the Sith, yet they can never achieve it; it comes only by the release of self, not the exaltation of self.
Generally speaking I will give credit to filmmakers. To my mind, it fits way better when you have knowledge of the lore, and I would imagine that several people have that knowledge and expect people to share it.
It happens way more in Hollywood than perhaps some realize.
While we are still a few days out, speculation about the second spy in "Spies" continues. However, I thought about it again. Kane found out about the Mandalorians helping Navarro via New Republic connections, not a mole reporting to her. Gideon was surprised by the Mandalorians move/team up, so he had no clue either. So, if these cases are both true, there is no Mandalorian mole to the Empire. However, there may still be a mole...but to the New Republic. And we've seen that mole already, R5-D4.
So, while it is possible the Mandalorians have a traitor in their ranks, I am not sure they have a spy in their ranks...at least not for the Empire.
So, while it is possible the Mandalorians have a traitor in their ranks, I am not sure they have a spy in their ranks...at least not for the Empire.
Right.
It could be noted that the way it's set up in TROS, the Sith still don't do ghosts, at least in the sense that they prefer to remain attached to a physical form. That's virtually opposite Yoda's teaching that, "luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." The Jedi way is to seek a non-corporeal eternal form, whereas the Sith seek corporeal immortality, as further exemplified by what Darth Plagueis sought and apparently nearly achieved.
It's the probe droid. That's the other spy. Mystery solved!
In this particular instance, I don't think the person or people making that call cared either way.
I get that. I don't agree.
Yeah, there was a lot of stuff that was hinted at and implied, but it still seems to me that the biggest plot point in the entire sequel trilogy should have gotten a more thorough explanation in dialogue for people who might not have picked up on all of that. A lot of that stuff was quick, and easy to miss if you weren't paying attention at the right time. All they had to do was put in either a line of dialogue or a line the Emperor set up a cloning program before his death, and they secretly created a new, unstable, clone body for him.And putting his return message in Fortnite as opposed to the film... ay caramba!But then I finally get around to listening to it and it talks about revenge and the Sith. dude, that was like 54 years ago
Yup.
And yes. I believe Rian Johnson shared a picture of the passage from the "Jedi Path" book also talking about that ability.
I found it amusing.
Agreed and I think this is were the PT burned a lot of people, including production side people, and fans and that they reacted the opposite way. It seemed like they wanted to avoid all the exposition and dry dialog of the PT, forgetting that ANH had a lot of dialog, and just move the story along.
I think a couple of more lines would have helped. And I welcome the fact that the Mandalorian makes it way more fleshed out.
Spank!It's the probe droid. That's the other spy. Mystery solved!
Indeed. Discussions between Luke and Ben, the "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi" message, the conference room scene on the Death Star, the pre-battle briefing on the Rebel moon, the negotiation in the cantina, and others.
I don't disagree.
And not to sound like I disagree, but I will reiterate a point I've made before. Palpatine having Force lightning abilities completely blindsided Luke. He did not understand just how out of his depth he was until the Emperor struck. And this was a complete surprise to the audience. A lot of surprise twists are missed when audiences watch the films in numeric/chronological order instead of production order: the surprise twist that Vader is Luke's father is foremost, but the surprise twist that the Emperor could fry a person with Force lightning coming from his fingertips is another.
The twist that the Sith accumulate their masters' abilities by bodily transfer when apprentice becomes master is another similar surprise twist, a danger blindsiding the hero and us. Not realizing the nature of a danger until it's too late to avoid is perhaps one of the most frightening things imaginable.
While I'm praising this aspect of the film, I'll also reiterate that the film itself was seriously wanting in its plot and structure. It wasted time focused on irrelevancies and seriously mishandled certain elements such as the dagger. Being clearer about how the Emperor returned couldn't have hurt it.
I'm extremely critical of how the story of Darth Plagueis was handled in ROTS. What the saga needed at the climax in EpIX was less vague hinting and greater exactitude.
Though it was easily missed, they did throw in a line of dialogue about cloning... and also showed some clone tanks... with Snoke clones in them.
Add to that, he says he's died already.
And why would we be inclined to think that was his original body? With just the ends of a few fingers blown off, perhaps? The dude exploded!
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