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Spoilers The Mandalorian season 2 discussion

I can imagine Thrawn giving it a go to bring back at least some sort of order to the still chaotic Galaxy, but even then, he can only be successful for so long before either the New Republic finally figures something out....or Palpatine's agents stop him for being too noisy while the Master is regenerating with his Eternal Sith brand knock off fanatical Empire, and converting Ilum into Starkiller Base for laughs.
More likely the Palpatine loyalists that step in.

In books in both the old EU and EU as soon as the new republic took the core they went on a campaign of demilitarization and pussyfication. Relying instead on the disunited warlords to take each other out, keeping only a small military to step in if a warlord got to big for his or her boots.
 
Just rewatching the episode and already I'm picking up things I missed or didn't fully appreciate.

  • In the establishing shot of the town, you can see some kind of refinery off in the distance, so there is an active mining operation, this town must just be where her stronghold is.
  • Speaking of the stronghold; from the architecture of the main house and the structure over the various gates, it looks like this is another former B'omarr site, though much smaller than the ones on Tatooine or Teth; maybe just a small abbey or priory? Also: Callback to Ahsoka's first appearance? She was carrying around a baby back then too...
  • A lot of forest fires visible from orbit, so the forest hasn't *completely* burnt down...yet.
  • I love how these days they have actual light-up sabres on set. The level of interactive lighting and in-camera reflections adds enormous fidelity to the action.
  • I don't think I really appreciated until now just how much longer her main-hand sabre hilt is compared to the off-hand. Makes me wish she'd try for a classic two-handed grip once in a while. Also made me realise that they really shouldn't refer to the off-hand as a shoto blade so much as a shoto hilt, since as noted before, blade length is adjustable, but a one-handed hilt is a one handed hilt.
  • Ahsoka's outfit is interesting. It seems to be a deliberate mix of the Rebels/Siege of Mandalore look and her latter season Clone Wars look...with maybe just a bit of Ventress thrown in with the more billowy shaolin kung-fu style trousers over her usual tight leggings (one of the concept art pieces even has her in a hakama looking thing, just like Ventress.)
  • One assumes her gauntlets and greaves are the same beskar ones she's had since Mandalore. Curious how that didn't come up. Not sure what happened to the tassets and breastplate though.
  • Knowing how Filloni works, you can really tell which shots are the ones he personally sketched or drew ahead of filming. The one with Ahsoka and Grogu sat around the lamp with the moon in the background and the gnarled tree branch framing them is 100% his style.
  • It's interesting how Ahsoka has developed into an almost mythical archetype. You don't often see gentle but fierce female guardians that aren't mother figures. Though I suppose given San was always a major influence, and the connection with The Daughter it couldn't really have gone any other way.
  • Grogu's reaction to hearing his name said aloud is almost heartbreaking when you realise it's probably the first time he's heard it spoken in decades.
  • The place where Ahsoka tests Grogu appears to be the only green part of the forest left...I'm not sure if that's a metaphor for something or not. Probably the former. I also note the concept art for this area makes it look like it's the site of some kind of ancient ruin. What they ended up filming did have some suspiciously regularly shaped stones, but it's easy to miss. An old force shrine or temple?
  • Ahsoka walking up on the magistrates compound is a direct lift from Yojimbo. (For those that don't know, Mifune's character in this movie was the main inspiration for Obi-Wan. Indeed, Mifune was offered the role and turned it down before Lucas even approached Guinness. And just to complete the circle; said character also influenced Eastwood's "Man With No Name" from the Dollars trilogy, which in turn was the inspiration of Boba Fett, and by extension, Dyn. Plus of course Kurosawa was a major influence on Lucas and Star Wars in general.)
  • Fascinating how the show features both a very traditional jidaigeki style duel on the one hand and an equally traditional western showdown on the other. Both two of the major visual and thematic touchstones in all of Star Wars.
  • I actually rather like how little about the situation on this planet is explained, like why are those three people specifically being imprisoned? Why did Ahsoka ask after them? It's like this is a cross-over episode for a show that doesn't exist (yet.) Plus you don't really need to know the details, all the important information is implied.
  • I can't overstate just how much I appreciate that they gave Michael Biehn a shotgun blaster. Between this, this, and now the Mandalorian, it's officially his signature weapon.
  • Looking at the credits reveals some ironic casting of stunt doubles; The Magistrate is being doubled by Lauren Mary Kim, who did the mo-cap for Ahsoka in the Clone Wars finale, while Ahsoka's double is Caitlin Dechelle who has also doubled for Gal Gadot in 'Wonder Woman', a character that Rosario Dawson has played in several animated movies...it's like a stunt double/character ouroboros.
  • Oh, and the actress playing the magistrate is herself a very experienced stunt performer in her own right...who also just happens to be Bruce Lee's goddaughter...
  • What helps lend credibility to the duel is that Ahsoka wants the Magistrate alive. Had she wanted her dead, the fight would have been over in seconds.
  • I can't decide if Ahsoka's refusal to train Grogu is purely because of his attachments as she says, or if it's also because of her own struggle with attachment. She's afraid she'll either create another Anakin, or become one herself...and acting out of fear is in and of itself not a good sign.
Anyone else getting a little sense of deja vu about the thought of a story of Grand Admiral Thrawn attempting to rebuild the Empire seven-ish or so years after Return of the Jedi?
And after returning from uncharted space no less...mix in a cloning program for a force sensitive, a rogue former Jedi (sanity optional), and an outer rim riddled with lawlessness and former Imperial warlords and no, doesn't ring a bell at all! ;)
I can imagine Thrawn giving it a go to bring back at least some sort of order to the still chaotic Galaxy, but even then, he can only be successful for so long before either the New Republic finally figures something out....or Palpatine's agents stop him for being too noisy while the Master is regenerating with his Eternal Sith brand knock off fanatical Empire, and converting Ilum into Starkiller Base for laughs.
Well he did die to an assassin's knife in the books, so perhaps that'll still hold true. Only this time it'll be a Sith cultist assassin?
 
  • I can't decide if Ahsoka's refusal to train Grogu is purely because of his attachments as she says, or if it's also because of her own struggle with attachment. She's afraid she'll either create another Anakin, or become one herself...and acting out of fear is in and of itself not a good sign.

Or does Asoka feel it's not her right or place to train Grogu since she is not a Jedi and, in fact, turned her back on the Order?
 
Complete demilitarization when 1/3 of imperial forces are still out there is a stupid arse thing to do.
You're totally right, they should have gone on a total war footing, declared martial law, taken control of the free press, imprisoned dissenters, enacted punitive measures on former Imperial worlds, started a galaxy wide draft, declared eminent domain over all major ship yards, weapons foundries and mining operations, and set up starfighter patrols at every major jump point. I'm sure things would have turned out much better that way... :rolleyes:
Or does Asoka feel it's not her right or place to train Grogu since she is not a Jedi and, in fact, turned her back on the Order?
She showed no such reservations about helping to teach Ezra.
 
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You're totally right, they should have gone on a total war footing, declared martial law, taken control of the free press, imprisoned dissenters, enacted punitive measures on former Imperial worlds, started a galaxy wide draft, declared eminent domain over all major ship yards, weapons foundries and mining operations, and set up starfighter patrols at every major jump point. I'm sure things would have turned out much better that way... :rolleyes:

She showed no such reservations about helping to teach Ezra.

You dont need to go that far either.
Just making sure the space nazis are actually beaten is a enough.

It would be like Britain standing down its armed force in WW2 just cause we won the battle of Britain stopping a invasion. Forgetting there is still a continent of fascists still with guns pointed.
 
You're totally right, they should have gone on a total war footing, declared martial law, taken control of the free press, imprisoned dissenters, enacted punitive measures on former Imperial worlds, started a galaxy wide draft, declared eminent domain over all major ship yards, weapons foundries and mining operations, and set up starfighter patrols at every major jump point. I'm sure things would have turned out much better that way... :rolleyes:

She showed no such reservations about helping to teach Ezra.
However she knew of his attachments, too.
 
The New Republic has the largest force remaining that was intact. They basically got the Republic out of the war footing it had been on since the Clone Wars and went back to normalcy, But they did keep a fleet of unknown size. Starkiller Base vaporized it, but there were plenty of allied ships that came to kick Palpatine's butt once they found him. I would gather that the New Republic went back to letting the individual systems and the old Judicial Forces and the like return to being the once that guarded space. But this time the New Republic did keep at least some of its military, just no where near the scale of the Empire or the Clone Wars era Republic.
 
The New Republic is such a joke the Mandalorian literally calls them a joke in like the first episode, they ignore the first order, and then are entirely wiped out by 5 super missiles blowing up one system.
 
It's an understandable decision given historical context. Mon Mothma lived through the Clone Wars and saw what happens when a Republic gives too much power to the military. More over the New Republic needed to prove to it's members and any potential hold outs that it wasn't going to just become another Empire. It would be foolish, naïve and arrogant to presume that won't happen "because we're the good guys!"
The galaxy had been at war and under military occupation for going on three decades. It needed to end.

Leia's position is also understandable in that the threat could out there and they couldn't afford to be so complacent.

Ideally there should have been more of a middle ground approach; galaxy-wide disarmament and force reduction leaving only a small naval force that would act as a significant deterrent to any would-be warlord, but not enough that it could be used to occupy or blockade, all while setting up a smaller, leaner trouble shooting task force to look for trouble in the border systems and deal with them before it gets out of hand.
Who knows, maybe in the early years that's just what happened, but over the *decades* they just got complacent. Such is the nature of politics and compromise; "why are we spending a third of the budget on Incom's new model fighters and yet more Starhawks when half the mid-rim is still on rationing?!". And to be fair: "a massive fleet and army of kidnapped children being built and trained in uncharted space led by a giant wizard in a gold dressing gown, who's really a puppet of the old resurrected Emperor" certainly sounds like some crazy, conspiracy theory bantha crap.

It's also worth baring in mind that in the thousands of years of history, there had probably NEVER been a mass invasion from outside of settled space. All of the various wars were expansionist small powers, coups and internal civil wars. Even the Sith take over and the fall of the Old Republic probably fell into that category.
The idea that a massive fleet would just pour out of the Unknown Regions would sound as outlandish as us being worried about an invasion from the moon...

It would be like Britain standing down its armed force in WW2 just cause we won the battle of Britain stopping a invasion. Forgetting there is still a continent of fascists still with guns pointed.
No it would be like stepping down after the defeat of Germany and the Japanese surrender...we pretty much did. National service (and rationing, incidentally) went on for a bit to keep the numbers stable in the reconstruction period, but almost right after VJ day the was a mass demobbing of squaddies.
You can't maintain a military of that size indefinitely; our economy was already on it's knees, supply chains stretched beyond the breaking point, and we were already so financially in debt to the US that we'd spend the rest of the century paying it off. You think we dismantled the Empire and founded the Commonwealth in the 50's out of the kindness of our hearts? Fuck no. There was no choice. It was a case of disarm or die.

We didn't abolish the military obviously, but we reduced it to a level where we'd only have to worry about defending the UK, our slice of West Germany and a handful of overseas territories, as opposed to pre-war which was basically two thirds of the planet!
 
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The New Republic is such a joke the Mandalorian literally calls them a joke in like the first episode, they ignore the first order, and then are entirely wiped out by 5 super missiles blowing up one system.
The Mandalorian's perspective is Outer-Rim based. The Republic (in its final days), the Empire, and subsequently the New Republic never managed to control the Outer Rim.
There are planets there that have only had criminal enterprises or corporate entities as their "government" for generations.
 
Since the entire NR was wiped out by 5 missiles fired into one solar system, I stand by my "The New Republic is a joke" statement.
 
It's an understandable decision given historical context. Mon Mothma lived through the Clone Wars and saw what happens when a Republic gives too much power to the military. More over the New Republic needed to prove to it's members and any potential hold outs that it wasn't going to just become another Empire. It would be foolish, naïve and arrogant to presume that won't happen "because we're the good guys!"
The galaxy had been at war and under military occupation for going on three decades. It needed to end.

Leia's position is also understandable in that the threat could out there and they couldn't afford to be so complacent.

Ideally there should have been more of a middle ground approach; galaxy-wide disarmament and force reduction leaving only a small naval force that would act as a significant deterrent to any would-be warlord, but not enough that it could be used to occupy or blockade, all while setting up a smaller, leaner trouble shooting task force to look for trouble in the border systems and deal with them before it gets out of hand.
Who knows, maybe in the early years that's just what happened, but over the *decades* they just got complacent. Such is the nature of politics and compromise; "why are we spending a third of the budget on Incom's new model fighters and yet more Starhawks when half the mid-rim is still on rationing?!". And to be fair: "a massive fleet and army of kidnapped children being built and trained in uncharted space led by a giant wizard in a gold dressing gown, who's really a puppet of the old resurrected Emperor" certainly sounds like some crazy, conspiracy theory bantha crap.

It's also worth baring in mind that in the thousands of years of history, there had probably NEVER been a mass invasion from outside of settled space. All of the various wars were expansionist small powers, coups and internal civil wars. Even the Sith take over and the fall of the Old Republic probably fell into that category.
The idea that a massive fleet would just pour out of the Unknown Regions would sound as outlandish as us being worried about an invasion from the moon...


No it would be like stepping down after the defeat of Germany and the Japanese surrender...we pretty much did. National service (and rationing, incidentally) went on for a bit to keep the numbers stable in the reconstruction period, but almost right after VJ day the was a mass demobbing of squaddies.
You can't maintain a military of that size indefinitely; our economy was already on it's knees, supply chains stretched beyond the breaking point, and we were already so financially in debt to the US that we'd spend the rest of the century paying it off. You think we dismantled the Empire and founded the Commonwealth in the 50's out of the kindness of our hearts? Fuck no. There was no choice. It was a case of disarm or die.

We didn't abolish the military obviously, but we reduced it to a level where we'd only have to worry about defending the UK, our slice of West Germany and a handful of overseas territories, as opposed to pre-war which was basically two thirds of the planet!
The New Republic's stance of ultra-pacifism is just as unreasonable and unbalanced as the Empire's stance of ultra-militarism. I realize the NR was likely gun-shy about maintaining a standing fleet, but to let it diminish into nothingness was patently foolish.

I'm reminded of a famous Bruce Lee quote. If it was erroneously attributed to him, I apologize in advance (Teh Interwebz can be funny that way about such things), but it doesn't make the wisdom of the words any less poignant and topical:

A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?"
The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war."

Balance is everything. Without it, we are nothing. -me
 
All the side by side Akohsa pictures I've been seeing in articles remind me just how damn ugly the animation was in Clone Wars.
Indeed, yes. It is painful.
The New Republic has the largest force remaining that was intact. They basically got the Republic out of the war footing it had been on since the Clone Wars and went back to normalcy, But they did keep a fleet of unknown size. Starkiller Base vaporized it, but there were plenty of allied ships that came to kick Palpatine's butt once they found him. I would gather that the New Republic went back to letting the individual systems and the old Judicial Forces and the like return to being the once that guarded space. But this time the New Republic did keep at least some of its military, just no where near the scale of the Empire or the Clone Wars era Republic.
Exactly. The New Republic feared being a militant super power and ran the opposite direction, leaving them vulnerable to an attack like the First Order did.
The New Republic's stance of ultra-pacifism is just as unreasonable and unbalanced as the Empire's stance of ultra-militarism. I realize the NR was likely gun-shy about maintaining a standing fleet, but to let it diminish into nothingness was patently foolish.

I'm reminded of a famous Bruce Lee quote. If it was erroneously attributed to him, I apologize in advance (Teh Interwebz can be funny that way about such things), but it doesn't make the wisdom of the words any less poignant and topical:

A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?"
The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war."
Yes. The Rebellion/New Republic leadership learned the wrong lessons from the Galatic Civil War, and that cost them.
 
The New Republic has been basically at peace for decades. The Home Fleet was probably stationed at yards around the Capital system (which changed every once in a while). Since it would take a sizable fleet to take them on, and a Death Star could only take out one planet at a time, that seems reasonable. Starkiller Base vaporized an entire star system with one shot. No one on the Republic was expecting that. And it didn't take out its sun....though it probably could have traveled there afterwards to suck up its sun to power the next shot.

After that, the fear factor kicks in, and planets surrender without a fight as the First Order fleets come out of hiding with the, "we killed the New Republic, bow to us" type swagger. The Resistance, the only ones who would know what happened, on the run. One wonders how much the Galaxy know about Starkiller Base and that it had been destroyed? On the other hand, the entire First Order/Final Order take over only lasted about a year before the Rest of the Galaxy, decided to kick Palpatine's butt again.
 
The New Republic has been basically at peace for decades. The Home Fleet was probably stationed at yards around the Capital system (which changed every once in a while). Since it would take a sizable fleet to take them on, and a Death Star could only take out one planet at a time, that seems reasonable. Starkiller Base vaporized an entire star system with one shot. No one on the Republic was expecting that. And it didn't take out its sun....though it probably could have traveled there afterwards to suck up its sun to power the next shot.

After that, the fear factor kicks in, and planets surrender without a fight as the First Order fleets come out of hiding with the, "we killed the New Republic, bow to us" type swagger. The Resistance, the only ones who would know what happened, on the run. One wonders how much the Galaxy know about Starkiller Base and that it had been destroyed? On the other hand, the entire First Order/Final Order take over only lasted about a year before the Rest of the Galaxy, decided to kick Palpatine's butt again.
I imagine that there were many Imperial sympathetic planets who were more than willing to throw in with the First Order once the New Republic government fell.
 
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