How so? Lots of orders are named after founders. This doesn't seem at odds with the Jedi way, at least any more than the Jedi became.
Spoilers The Mandalorian season 2 discussion
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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Philosophically and symbolically it means they're putting themselves forward over others. I can't see the ancient Jedi thinking that way. In the case of the Sith order, I can't see them raising a collective group over the individual, much less an underclass of slaves they just conquered. Makes zero sense.How so? Lots of orders are named after founders. This doesn't seem at odds with the Jedi way, at least any more than the Jedi became.
Much more likely that the etymology of "Jedi" is lost to time, but whatever root word it comes from actually means something akin to "balance", "harmony" or "selfless", since those generally appears to be the core concepts. Or a composite word derived from some other progenitor sect. Religions after all, don't often just spring out of nowhere fully formed.
Indeed since one of Lucas's main touchstones when coming up with much of this was Taoist principles, maybe a better approach is to continue that connection and have it mean the same thing as "tao", which unless google is lying to me literally means "the way" in Chinese. Bonus points there because it potentially ties in with the Mandalorian Creed deriving from a common (though long since divergent) source. It'd hardly be the first time two religious denominations made drastically different interpretations of the same texts.
ETA: In that scenario "Sith" could also derive from the same language to mean something similar but diametrically opposed. Like say for the sake of argument "Jedi" comes from the proper noun with an implicit collective overtone (i.e. "the way of the many before the one" or put another way "the way of the force of others") Whereas the root word for "Sith" comes from the proper noun with an implicit individualistic overtone and a more dictatorial connotation (i.e. "the way of the force of one before the many" or more succinctly "the rule of the one", which rather neatly suddenly adds socio-historical context for the "Rule of Two".)
Basically literally anything is more imaginative or meaningful than "lets just call ourselves the little green old frog people order!"
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I like this idea. The rest would be fine by me too. It's not like it somehow reflects poorly on the philosophy of the Jedi because they were named after an alien species. Kind of like the Bendu as a reference to the original Jedi-Bendu name Lucas had. As you note, religions don't leap out of nowhere, so the Jedi calling themselves after a species or a planet or a leader is not far fetched, and would be baseline acceptable for me.
Now, that said, I would certainly like more thought put in to it, including referencing the "Prime Jedi" (as it was called in the books and such) from Ach-To. Having Jedi meaning "the Way" would be incredibly interesting, and carry weight to expand that beyond the stupid Mandalorian catch phrase "This is the way." That would be more interesting and something I wouldn't put past the current production team.
But, overall, I don't see it as a huge deal. Just hope they do more.
I'm not saying it's impossible that Yoda nnd Frogwai are literally from the "Jedi" species, just that it doesn't feel like a terribly good idea, creatively speaking.
Did I say that it was?
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Being meaningful must not be a huge deal. I apologize for my assumption.
Anyway, as for the Bendu thing; that word does have an actual canon meaning "the one in the middle" that could also come from the old tongue, as does presumably "ashla" and "bogan".
If we want to get into myth making, maybe at one point before the schism the Jedi were a trinary order that reflected the Father, the Son, & the Daughter (whom we know they had contact with); Jedi-Bendu Shamans, Jedi-Ashla Guardians and Jedi-Bogan Knights. It's a neat way to recall Lucas's original idea about Yoda and The Emperor not being Knights like Obi Wan and Vader, but a sort of guru-sorcerer priesthood class that just trains the Knights and doesn't get into the whole martial, lightsaber wielding side of things personally.
You could even do a circle of time type myth and have the Sith schism play out as we saw in the Mortis Arc; The Knights of Bogan grow sick of the status quo and make a powerplay to remove the Bendu Priesthood from power and wind up destroying the Ashla Guardians (with whom they sought to share power) in the process. As the Knights of Bogan flee in rage and despair, what's was left of the Jedi-Bendu and Ashla-Guardians would found a new order of Jedi Knights to fill the void and guard against the Return of the Sith™.
If we want to get into myth making, maybe at one point before the schism the Jedi were a trinary order that reflected the Father, the Son, & the Daughter (whom we know they had contact with); Jedi-Bendu Shamans, Jedi-Ashla Guardians and Jedi-Bogan Knights. It's a neat way to recall Lucas's original idea about Yoda and The Emperor not being Knights like Obi Wan and Vader, but a sort of guru-sorcerer priesthood class that just trains the Knights and doesn't get into the whole martial, lightsaber wielding side of things personally.
You could even do a circle of time type myth and have the Sith schism play out as we saw in the Mortis Arc; The Knights of Bogan grow sick of the status quo and make a powerplay to remove the Bendu Priesthood from power and wind up destroying the Ashla Guardians (with whom they sought to share power) in the process. As the Knights of Bogan flee in rage and despair, what's was left of the Jedi-Bendu and Ashla-Guardians would found a new order of Jedi Knights to fill the void and guard against the Return of the Sith™.
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Honestly, I really like the idea of tying in to the Father-Son-Daughter aspect of the story. That is some excellent myth writing to explore.
Also, just to add a little bit more layers but the Knights of Ren could be another splinter group of the Jedi-Bogan Knights, but never rose to prominence outside of the Unknown Regions due to the Sith Empire recruiting Dark Side users.
They seem more like small-time cultists to me than a religion unto themselves. Maybe once, way back they served the Sith, or maybe just a particular Sith Lord (Darth Ren?) as a loyal order of assassins. But when the Order imploded they (and many other Sith worshipping cults) were left adrift and without direction. The Knights of Ren was saw could have been a pale shadow; a poor imitation of a half-remembered idea of what they once were.
Or their origins are way more mundane: a garden variety band of marauders roving Wild Space led by the self styled warlord Ren. Maybe in their wanderings and pillaging they stumbled onto some ancient dark side aligned (not necessarily Sith) texts, maybe a half functioning holocron or a temple full of relics. Initially used it as a way to add mystique to their reputation, maybe inspire fear in their competition and make raiding colonies less of a fight. Over time, the mystique takes over entirely and they just start demanding tribute, using the relics to reinforce the faith of their followers. Eventually the Jedi show up, liberate the sector and break up the cult, leaving the survivors scattered, and their descendent became the Knights of Ren.
Maybe the original 'Ren' was a member of the Krath and their Knights were the honour guard, exiled and masterless when the Empress Teta system rose up to overthrow them. So evil Ronin, basically.
There's all kinds of possibilities. I'd just be hesitant to have too much all converging directly from one point. Better to spread it out and give the galaxy more of a sense of history. It's why I wasn't crazy about how the old EU take on the 'Dawn of the Jedi' had the order springing up almost fully realised almost right from the start. History is usually more about slow incremental change interspersed with short periods of upheaval. I'd rather the early Jedi have started out VERY differently from how they ended up. Likewise for the likes of the Ren cult, the Whills cult etc. etc.
Yeah, that's probably closer to a more accurate idea to what might happen.
I seem to recall that "Jedi" was a shortened version of what their order was called before the founding of the Republic some 25,000 years before the Battle of Yavin.
The Sith were a species taken over by the Dark side using exiled Jedi. In the the thousands of years, I imagine that the Sith (species) invading Republic space eventually became, the Dark side users invading, and the name, "Sith" stuck. The Dark siders either decided to go with it, or the original groups (and species) were wiped out, but a Dark Jedi cult rose up and took the name "Sith" as it was one that inspired fear in the people of the Republic and even some Jedi.
The Sith were a species taken over by the Dark side using exiled Jedi. In the the thousands of years, I imagine that the Sith (species) invading Republic space eventually became, the Dark side users invading, and the name, "Sith" stuck. The Dark siders either decided to go with it, or the original groups (and species) were wiped out, but a Dark Jedi cult rose up and took the name "Sith" as it was one that inspired fear in the people of the Republic and even some Jedi.
I see it less as a catchphrase and more of a religious intonation akin to "selah", "tathastu", or "amen". It probably also serves as a martial term of affirmation; "aye-aye", "yes sir!", roger-roger!" Which all seems entirely appropriate for a regimented cult of warriors; orders akin to prayers, scripture akin to regulations, war chants akin to hymns and so on.
You're thinking of the "Je'daii" which I already alluded to above. Don't recall if they ever bothered to actually explain what the word actually means, and since it's one of the later, less well regarded (borderline forgotten) EU elements I doubt they'll be drawing much from it in the future aside from perhaps the odd name-drop.
Yeah I know and as I said it makes no sense for them to name their order after the species they just enslaved. The Empire they were establishing, *maybe*. The exclusive Order of elite ruling Sorcerer Kings and Queens who just got kicked out of the Jedi Order for being too into individualism? Hell no! (Seriously, it'd be like if after the American Revolution, the newly formed nation of white supremacists opted to call themselves "The Afro-Indian Republic" instead of the USA.) But then there's a lot about the 'Golden Age of Sith' comics that were flat-out non-sensical *cough*Jedi-commit-genocide*cough*. Not that it matters at all since it's not canon anyway.
That aside; it's boring. I'd rather it actually mean something,
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Not saying it's not appropriate.
After thousands of years and dozens of generations, I don't this the Lords of the Sith would be able to differentiate themselves from those they enslaved. The old Sith I think was suppose to be not long after the formation of the Republic, but the "Golden Age" was only about 5,000 years before Yavin, and the mainline "Sith" were a thousand or more years after that. Meaning it been about 20,000 years. At that point, going for the fear message would be more important. "Sith" might be the Star Wars equivalent of "Vandals" which was tribe that sacked Rome, but has since become its own word. The right (or wrong) people take ownership of a word, and it gets marked for a long time.
I hope all the people freaking out about the child eating unfertilized eggs of a sentient species do not themselves eat the flesh of fully conceived, living sentient animals (pigs).
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/...intelligent-emotional-and-cognitively-complex
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/...intelligent-emotional-and-cognitively-complex
So I guess I can now claim the moral high ground since I have not been among those whining about Baby Yoda eating those eggs.
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/baby-yoda-eggs/amp
"Showrunners Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni told Vanity Fair's Joanna Robinson that they have deliberately added shocks to make Baby Yoda less cute."
"Showrunners Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni told Vanity Fair's Joanna Robinson that they have deliberately added shocks to make Baby Yoda less cute."
I mean, good. He's not cute.
Have you met Star Wars fans?
