The Latest on the Batman

[the Dagman]

I am going to put everything behind a spoiler tag because I am touching on subject matter that was only released yesterday. If you are a comic book fan and have been wondering just what the current story lines have been leading to and haven't made it to the comic shop yet, DO NOT LOOK AT THE SPOILER! I would hate to actually ruin the story for a dedicated fan and collector. And now...

Spoiler: were you expecting this?

The Batman is DEAD!

Yes, it seems it is true. In the latest issue of Final Crisis Batman squared off with Darkseid. The Batman violated his one rule and pulled a gun loaded with a bullet that is toxic to the New God race. Darkseid dared him to shoot before he shot him with his Omega Beam. They both fired. They both hit.

There are some scans of the relevant pages over on Scans_Daily (a site that post scans from comics, but never exceeding 50% of the book. And yes, DC is aware of it's existence). Here is the link:

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/6985681.html#cutid1

There was also some follow up on the story in the latest Nightwing as well, where Dick Grayson is shown picking up some of the pieces of Bruce's life as well as taking on Ra's Al Ghul and his band of ninja. He is the odds on favorite for becoming the one to take up the mantle of Bruce's cape and cowl. Particularly for the way he handled Ra's, as well as there is another Nightwing now running around Earth who came from Kandor.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/6989210.html#cutid1

ETA: And if you are going to avoid my info behind the spoiler tag, definitely do NOT scroll down this page to read some of the comments. It seems that the idea and use of the spoiler tag has not yet spread to everyone here at this forum. And they are posting rather blatant spoilers outside of a tag and just stating there will be spoilers and spacing down a few lines. If this has diminished the story for you in any way, I do apologize. This was not my intent as I even went to the trouble of making the thread title spoiler-free.

 

[blaXXer]

Worst. Comic. Ever.

I wonder why do I stil bother to read the crapfest that is DC?

 

[sithlord]

yeah, I read the issue in question today. I made the foolish mistake of not reading the 2 follow up issues of Batman (682 and 683) before reading FC #6 (really wish I had, events would have made some sense and had some impact.)

SPOILERS PAST THIS POINT:

Spoiler: Final Crisis 6 and for those who dont get what SPOILER means before a block of text...

Ok, they want to kill Batman in a massively heroic way that also betrays an oath he took to never wield a gun, fine. That's cool. Final Crisis 6 is NOT the way you tell that story. It's just another WTF moment in a series of loosely connected WTF moments. Grant Morrison has proved he's capable of telling coherent stories in the past (All Star Superman for example.) What the hell is his excuse here? Is the story too big for him as an author? Is editorial frakking with him? Is DC just laughing at their diminishing audience in a self destructive act reminiscent of Frank Miller's current downward career spiral?

What is wrong with DC? There is no heart to this tale, there is no way to relate to the characters or to the carnage. I feel nothing but bewilderment that this passes for professional writing.

It reminds me of the end of Star Trek Nemesis and Data's death. The movie sure wanted me to feel all torn up and sad at Data's sacrifice. But, wanting someone to feel something is light years away from causing someone to feel something. Final Crisis is just as guilty, if not more so for failing to connect with its readers (at least this one.)

Marvel drove me away with Civil War. DC just drove me away with Final Crisis.

 

[the Dagman]

sithlord, you really ought to put the bulk of your post behind a spoiler tag. I went to the effort not to spill any details outside the spoiler tag in the OP as well as the thread title. You have just blown that with your post. Please be considerate to those who have not yet made it to the comic shop, no matter what you may think of the story.

But I do agree that I find Grant Morrison's work on Batman and Final Crisis lacking. It is like it is an idea he has had for several years, and gone over it time and again. Only when it came time to actually tell the story after his long set-up for it, it is like he expects us to know his mental notes that have been floating in his head the last few years and he forgets to put it all down on paper in the book. Bendis is guilty of the same crap over at Marvel.

Spoiler: And Superman...

And the artist really missed an homage beat there at the end where Superman is holding Batman's charred skeletal corpse. He should have done in like the cover of COIE #7. The figures were even positioned in a similar manner, but Superman is showing no emotion over holding the dead body of one of his closest friends.

ETA: Thanks sithlord!

 

[DarKush]

Spoilers......



I flipped through this issue at the comic book store yesterday. I don't think Batman's dead. Yeah, Supes was holding a corpse with a bat outfit on, but I'm sure the writers will come up with some way to explain that.

I've been very disappointed, no vexed by Batman RIP. The artwork was good for the most part, the villians were interesting, but the story just went off the rails. And then to not even have Batman's 'end' in RIP, but to place it into FC was even stranger.

 

[the Dagman]

I was questioning since Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns have been said to be working closely on Final Crisis and the books that tie into it if there is...

Spoiler: a possibility?

...maybe that Bruce Wayne will return later this year as a Black Lantern? It could be a real Locutus moment. Raised as a soulless zombie with a power ring who knows everyone's battle tactics and weaknesses.

 

[FALCONX0N]

I was questioning since Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns have been said to be working closely on Final Crisis and the books that tie into it if there is...

Spoiler: a possibility?

...maybe that Bruce Wayne will return later this year as a Black Lantern? It could be a real Locutus moment. Raised as a soulless zombie with a power ring who knows everyone's battle tactics and weaknesses.

Well, considering that

Spoiler: not really spoilers, but why not

in my humble opinion, the GL Books are the best that's coming out of DC at the moment, I wouldn't be too adverse against him as a Black Lantern.

 

[the Dagman]

I was questioning since Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns have been said to be working closely on Final Crisis and the books that tie into it if there is...

Spoiler: a possibility?

...maybe that Bruce Wayne will return later this year as a Black Lantern? It could be a real Locutus moment. Raised as a soulless zombie with a power ring who knows everyone's battle tactics and weaknesses.

Well, considering that

Spoiler: not really spoilers, but why not

in my humble opinion, the GL Books are the best that's coming out of DC at the moment, I wouldn't be too adverse against him as a Black Lantern.

Also...

Spoiler: given his reaction

to Hal Jordan's resurrection and revelation that Parallax was a parasite that took over Hal, it would be interesting to see Bruce facing the other side of that equation. When he is restored to life somewhere down the line, it may help him down from his sanctimonious high-horse and allow him and Hal to really become friends again.

 

[God Magnus]

After reading these spoilers (I'm about 2 weeks behind on books), I'm wondering if it's time to unsubscribe from the Bat-titles again and just wait a while before things get back to a point where I'll care about them again.

Edit: To clarify what I mean by the above - I want Bat-stories that involve Batman and Robin (sometimes Nightwing, Batgirl etc.) fighting crime and solving mysteries in Gotham City. Throw in some traps, great fight scenes, gadgetry etc. for a good mix. I know that may sound outdated but that's the Batman I grew up enjoying.

 

[Christopher]

I'm confused by the pages posted at the link in the first post. It appears that two different books are portraying the same event in mutually contradictory ways. Are these supposed to be slightly alternate realities, or is there just a lack of authorial/editorial coordination between titles?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'm confused by the pages posted at the link in the first post. It appears that two different books are portraying the same event in mutually contradictory ways. Are these supposed to be slightly alternate realities, or is there just a lack of authorial/editorial coordination between titles?

The Nightwing issue takes place in between Batman 681 and Final Crisis 6. Post-Batman 681, most everyone thinks Batman is dead. Batman 683 reveals that he's not(and leads into Final Crisis). He's just gone deep underground. Nightwing, Robin, and a few others are trying to pick up the pieces in Gotham without Batman around. So, yes, the two things don't match, because Nightwing is reacting to Batman's absence, not the (somewhat later) events of Final Crisis 6.

 

[Christopher]

No, I'm not talking about Nightwing's reactions. That's from the second link, which I haven't looked at yet. I'm only talking about the first link. It has the cover and six pages from an issue of Final Crisis, and below those is a page from "Grant Morrison's JLA run." These both show

Spoiler: Batman

Batman being fragged by Darkseid's zigzaggy eyebeam thingies

, but everything else is completely different.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Really? that's how Batman "dies"? in some cosmic gobbledygook universe storytelling? really? BATMAN?



Man, monthly comic books are so fuckin stupid sometimes

 

[Ol Scratch]

In my opinion it's all been a huge set-up for the upcoming Black Lantern Corps ever since they added R.I.P. in there. It couldn't be more blatantly obvious, especially since it was foreshadowed with the Sinestro Corps when the Batman was approached by one of those power rings. I mean they all but basically flat-outl you this when Darkseid reveals what he's about to do the deed with in the above clip.

If they really wanted to be as clever as they think they're being, they would have done this quite some time ago long before they ever let slip the idea of the Black Lanterns. As it stands now, it's truly, truly painful watching this <sarcasm>brilliant and wholly unexpected idea</sarcasm> unfold.

 

[the Dagman]

Morrison's JLA run was from several years ago. And yes, it does seem he reuses plot points doesn't it? Or maybe he forgot? The way the story reads as I described up thread, these ideas have been floating around in his head for a long time. And if his scatter-brain plotting can't remember to put down all the details of a story, it is possible that he has forgotten he had tapped those ideas once before. A good editor would have caught the similarity between the two stories, but it seems both DC and Marvel's editorial staff these days are really just glorified traffic cops between the various creators and not true editors. At least regarding their "big name" creators who are given carte blanch to tell their story any way they like and then leave it to their successor on the book to weed through all of it, retcon the crap out and try to make sense of the rest.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Beyond all the other things wrong with this -

Batman faces of against Darkseid.....


This just diminishes the true value of both characters.

The notion that Batman is special because he is a Human and pushed himself to human perfection is nonsense in the current DC Universe. He will be back through some technobabble magical BS.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

No, I'm not talking about Nightwing's reactions. That's from the second link, which I haven't looked at yet. I'm only talking about the first link. It has the cover and six pages from an issue of Final Crisis, and below those is a page from "Grant Morrison's JLA run." These both show

Spoiler: Batman

Batman being fragged by Darkseid's zigzaggy eyebeam thingies

, but everything else is completely different.

I think those are two separate events, not two takes on the same action.

 

[Nick Ryder]

That just... doesn't seem right. I dunno, part of me thinks its just a scam on behalf of DC to try and sell a couple more issues this month then next month he pops up in a different costume or something. "Check out the new costume!" on the cover.

Spoiler: Clicky

let people grieve him and let Dick replace him for a time, then he'll pop out and go 'I was undercover I needed the universe to believe me dead after I killed Darkseid and... why is everyone looking at me like that? OW! NO! Not the face!" Is Bruce dead? Maybe... but I dunno we've been lied to before. In the immortal words of Vreenak "It's a Faaaaaaake!"

 

[Thrall]

I've hated Grant Morrison for years(as everyone knows), so none of this shocks me in the least. If anything, I feel validated in my dislike of his writing. I've also disliked Dan Didio's Silver Age Jihad to erase anything from the DCU that wasn't prominent when Johnson was President. What I am shocked about is that a Silver Age Fascist like Didio would allow something like this. I realize he's under pressure to out sell Marvel, which has rarely ever happened consistently in the past 30 years even in the best of times. But I don't think letting Morrison run amok on The DCU, the same way Bendis and Millar were allowed to do with the MU 616, is the right way of doing it. This is an unnecisarry stunt best suited for Quesada's Pseudo-Marvel, not the traditionalist DCU.

Spoiler: [SPOILER]

I'm a big Nightwing fan, and was really mad that they canceled Dick's book for this. It's obvious to me that he should be the replacement(sorry Tim Drake fans), but he's not Batman. He's Nightwing. Bruce Wayne is Batman. I'm all for Legacy Characters. But this is mythology destroying. Something I despise and Morrison loves. I don't know how they'll retcon this to bring Bruce back, and I really don't care as long they do it. Bruce could wake up and it could be all a dream, and I'd think it would be the best thing ever.

 

[Mr Light]

Here's my take. At the beginning of the issue, Superman is shown a miracle god gun that can turn your thoughts into reality. At the end of the issue, he's holding Batman's corpse. Hmm... what could possibly happen next?

I think the worst thing about Batman's death scene is that its two pages and then a double page spread, with zero lead-in before that. Me, I would have devoted more than 4 pages to the death of Batman. Or is there a forthcoming one shot flashback showing how Batman escaped his imprisonment and infiltrated Darkseid's lair to sneak up on him?

One thing really confuses me though. I thought the entire premise of the series is that Darkseid won the war and is god now. But in the ending issues they're now saying he's dying and taking the universe down with him. If he won the war and became all powerful... why is he dying?

While I generally think Final Crisis is a horrible disappointment and a general mess, the ending issues at least are a little epic and have cool dialogue. It's still just so damn disjointed, convoluted, and confusing though. I haven't been reading the tie-ins, but lemme get this straight, first Superman goes on his Hypertime adventure THEN he goes on his Legion in the future adventure THEN he comes back here? Speaking of which, why is this a be-all-end-all crossover missing its three leads and starring C list characters? I think I'm finally sick of Grant Morrison for good.

And adding insult to injury, the horrific delays. My god. I thought I read that Morrison wrote the damn thing like two years ago, and they announced Jones was drawing it a year before the first issue's release. How the hell did they run out of time?! It's not like Jones' art is particularly detailed, or, yknow, good.