The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by crookeddy, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But... but... but... RULES!

    :p
     
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  2. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    Rules (such as they exist) serve the STORY, not the other way around.
    The kind of fiction that is created by some "fans" is a good indicator of why franchises don't turn creative control over to the loudest voices on Twitter.
    The last thing Star Wars needs is an Axanar.
     
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  3. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree wholeheartedly.
     
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  4. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    So what you are saying is that you want writers who write themselves into a corner, and then come up with some new power to get themselves out of it? Star Wars equivalent of technobabble?
     
  5. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that allowing powers that make sense within the context of the story should be fine. Nothing that has been added doesn’t make sense. Even the Force projection affects minds, it just does so at a distance. Affecting minds was from the very first film. So I don’t see a problem there. But the Force is a mystical power that controls everything. The idea that we have seen every single power that a Force user can wield is ludicrous.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Plus, the audience is going to want to see new things, to see an expansion of technology and Force powers.
     
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  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly.
     
  8. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    I agree. Her brush off was a very lame excuse. Many movies "went dark" and still managed to make something entertaining.

    I can certainly understand with trying to change things and not make the same movie over and over again. I thought Lucas created some of the most boring movies ever with Episodes one and two, yet a great movie in Episode 3. And Episode 3 had the main character slaughter innocent children. In fact, I would say Revenge of the Sith is far darker than The Lasi Jedi ever was but also far more entertaining. It doesn't matter if the story is dark or light, so long as it's an interesting one and told very well.
     
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  9. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I personally don't care about physics all that much, but even fantasy movies have to be beholden to their own internal rules and logic. You can make up whatever magic you want, just have it make sense and be internally consistent (which doesn't mean there's not some flexibility. Nothing wrong with creating new Jedi powers in each movie, for instance.)

    Too often, though, I find the "space wizards" excuse to be a way to wave away plot holes, gaps in storytelling, characterization problems, etc. that any movie, even fantasy movies, should take pains to avoid.
     
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  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I love seeing how this opinion is articulated. I don't agree with it but you put it very well.

    For me, ROTS is the worst of the PT. It isn't entertaining, it is dark and depressing and not enjoyable. I have zero desire to revisit it. However, I am glad that many enjoy it, that Lucas got to tell the story he wanted. It just wasn't the story for me that I enjoyed. TLJ, however, is a film I do revisit. Same with TFA.

    Viva la difference!
     
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  11. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    Absolutely.! I loved TFA and couldn't stand TLJ. Hence my excitement for J.J Abrams helming the next one,. In the end, we like what we like and there's no reason to have knives out when someone doesn't like the same movies that you do.

    Viva la difference! ;)
     
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  12. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I see what you did there...
     
  13. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But there is no reason those rules can’t evolve. If you put limitations on them, the plots can become fairly predictable. I’m not suggesting that all of the sudden the a Force should literally be able to transport you from Tatooine to Naboo. But it has been established that the Force has an influence on the mind. That the only limitation the Force has is the user. So, then it’s possible for the user to be able to use the Force to send a projection of himself as he stands on Tatooine to Naboo. Obviously that’s an example that’s been used in the films. But it fits my point of being able to expand the rules when necessary.

    No, the Force is not an end-all, be-all plot device that should be able to solve everything. But I do put my faith in those who are running the franchise. It’s their job to make an entertaining story. If people don’t like it? That’s how it goes. If I don’t like it, the same thing.
     
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  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. Not liking a film is perfectly OK.

    Also, I'm trying to figure out what rules the ST has "broken" (since, in storytelling parlance breaking the rules is one reason to have rules in the first place)?
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. Not liking a film is perfectly OK.

    Also, I'm trying to figure out what rules the ST has "broken" (since, in storytelling parlance breaking the rules is one reason to have rules in the first place)?
     
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  16. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is not what I'm talking about at all. I agree with all of this, which is why I specifically said so in my post.

    I mean the tendency of people, who when faced with any kind of legit plot hole, logical gap or any other kind of story telling screw up in sci-fi fantasy tend to say, "Well, it's a show with dragons in, it were you expecting it to be realistic?"

    Which is a dumbass argument. Even sci-fi/fantasy needs to be well-written and internally consistent.
     
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  17. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It hasn't broken any rules that were actually in the text. It only conflicts with small-minded people who were annoyed their own personal pet theories weren't borne out.
     
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  18. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    Not stupidly; it was time for Luke to go, the same as it was time for Han to go in The Force Awakens (expecting three 60-something people to act as if they were in their '30's is beyond stupid.) Luke used his Jedi Force-ghost powers to secure the safety of his sister and the remaining Resistance members so that they could escape Crait, as well as mind fuck his nephew the same way that Obi-Wan Kenobi bought time for Luke, Han & Leia to get off the Death Star in A New Hope by fighting Vader. These idiots who hate TFA don't realize that the younger ones (Rey, Poe, Finn & Rose) are front and center now, and that Luke, Han, Leia & Lando were (are in Lando's case in The Rise Of Skywalker) handing things off to them. And Luke did it the way a Jedi's supposed to do things ('a Jedi uses the Force for defence, NEVER for attack'.) Again, expecting a 68-year old man (Luke Skywalker/Mark Hamill) to act as if he's in his twenties or thirties is beyond stupid.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Hey, look, another YT video that I agree with that people won't but oh well. Last Jedi is awesome, right? ;)

     
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  20. Skipper

    Skipper Commodore Commodore

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    YouTube. Must. Die.
     
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