The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by crookeddy, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I feel there's also a matter of scale here. A single country is a far cry from an entire galaxy.

    Though perhaps one problematic point is that we don't really know how much Joe EveryStarWarsCharacter knew about the Jedi.
     
  2. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Han Solo must have remembered a time when there were Jedi around, though in his life as a poor orphan at the bottom of society, he probably never had any direct dealings with them. And after years with no Jedi in public life, by the time of the ANH, he had become convinced that it was some "hokey religion" and "all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense." That's the Empire's propaganda machine at work.

    Kor
     
  3. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But Han also 'flew from one side of the galaxy to the other' and didn't seem like someone who would buy into Imperial propaganda. The Jedi were right on Coruscant and known throughout galaxy in the prequel era, and there was another propaganda campaign where they were cited as heroes of the Republic. Oh, also his best friend was apparently on first name terms with Yoda.

    Maybe you can explain some of the changes in perception through 'the Empire's propaganda' machine (which nobody in the movies ever alludes to), but I still don't think that comes close to explaining the disparity between what we hear about the Jedi in the OT and what we see in the PT.

    Given the other shifts (esp. midichlorians), they just feel like a very different set of people. Again, the original EU material was very much in line with that way of thinking. When Luke set up a Jedi Academy, he didn't set in right in the middle of Coruscant because that wouldn't really reflect what we know of the order. Even the new films seem aware of this. Even given his self-imposed exile, I don't think it's a coincidence that Luke is on a remote island, just like it was no coincidence that Yoda lived on Dagobah.
     
  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never got the impression that the Jedi were that unknown, even before the prequels. Pretty much everybody in the OT seems to know who and what the Jedi were, even Han knew what a Jedi was, he just didn't believe in the Force or their abilities. He didn't seem confused or need the Jedi or The Force explained to him, he just didn't believe.
     
  5. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    10,000 Jedi. Spread across a galaxy at war. With the propaganda machine focused on the clones. Every problem that came up was hoisted on the Jedi (via Palpatine's manipulations. See some of the Clone Wars episodes that take place on Coruscant...looks in the background at things on screens. You'll sometimes see Palpatine addressing the people's concerns over the war efforts. He usually seems to defend the Jedi, but if you pay attention, what he's doing is highlighting what they Jedi are being accused of, and then lightly denouncing the accusation as silly and that they are doing what they can. Add to this years of the Empire protrayal of the Jedi's as traitors of the Galaxy (it being their war....more or less Palpatine nearly successfully places what hid actually did (play both sides for power) on the Jedi) and thus made the Galaxy want to forget the Jedi (curse their name at best.), and place the Emperor as the savior of the Galaxy through his stable Empire.
     
  6. Unicron

    Unicron Boss Monster Mod Moderator

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    There are also some Jedi who refused to participate in the war effort, as they felt it either wasn't their proper role or that there was some degree of legitimacy to the view that the Republic was getting corrupt, and they didn't want to contribute to that. So more propaganda that Palpatine could create.
     
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Given how things turned out, they were pretty much the smart ones...
     
  8. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah...they were also the ones hunted down by Darth Vader.
     
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As opposed to the ones killed by the clone troopers?
     
  10. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Most of the ones killed by the clone troopers were the ones involved in the war. Those that sat it out would be more prepared and a Sith Lord would be more suited to hunt them down.
     
  11. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Whether you're killed by your own troopers or by a Sith Lord, you're equally dead at the end of it.

    However, if being more prepared meant you fled as Yoda and Kenobi ultimately did, maybe you lived to fight another day.
     
  12. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I don't think any Jedi came out of the rise of the Empire looking especially smart, regardless of whether they served on the front lines or were conscientious objectors.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, not really. They mostly come across as gullible and easily manipulated.
     
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  14. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    The prequel trilogy was a bit forward looking in how easily people can misread the situation they are in and the side they are rooting for.
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It had some good points on it, and certainly expanded the story of SW. And, regardless of personal interest in the film I am still glad it exists.

    I just think it could have been done better. Same with TLJ. However, for me, the ST is infinitely more rewatchable than the PT. YMMV.
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    Absolutely. But it is fair to give the prequels credit where/when it is due.
     
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  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The PT deserves all the credit for expanding the universe of SW. No matter how poorly the films are regarded their impact is very difficult to deny.
     
  18. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's precisely why, now that the dust has thoroughly settled on the PT, I rank TPM as the best of the three films. After it came out, I ranked ROTS as the best of the PT. But now I think that creatively TPM was the biggest step up. I also think that TPM looks the best of the three, being shot on film, but I digress.
     
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  19. ScottJ85

    ScottJ85 Captain Captain

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    To be completely honest, I wasn't sure what to think at all of TLJ the first time I saw it, though I found myself appreciating it a lot more the second time around. Most of the Star Wars fans I know personally thought it was at least pretty good, the only guy I know who hated it spent the last decade or so immersed in the EU and I'm pretty sure he would have hated it regardless just because it didn't follow the EU.
     
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  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Pretty much this. So often I hear the EU thrown around, as if it was the only possible way events could have unfolded. Except, Lucas himself stated that he would not be following that if he had continued the story.
     
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