The lack of a follow-up to "In the Pale Moonlight"

[Bad Atom]

I just finished watching "In the Pale Moonlight" and it got me wondering why there was never a follow-up. And as I continued to think about it, I found myself torn about the situation.

On one hand, it seems like the most obvious idea in the world - you have someone (maybe Jake) discover what Sisko did and all hell breaks loose.

But, on the other hand, a follow-up might not be as good and could "tamper" with the greatness of ITPM.

Since I was divided on the issue, I wondered what the consensus here might be. So here's the poll:

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I've thoughta about it, too. All hell would break loose essentially because the Romulans might find out.

But then I thought...the Romulans already KNOW!

I mean cmon, Vreenak just vanishes? Someone back home must have known his mission to the Dominion and that the Feds would want to divert him. With their devious intellect, the Romulans would certainly guess the rest. I don't think much gets past those guys.

Vreenak would have had many enemies in the Senate who wanted to join the war before it was too late for everyone, and who were happy to see him suddenly gone. Joining the war effort at the last minute like that means that their allies do all the heavy lifting while the Rommies join in the victory party.

They would have had a good motive to keep the whole thing quiet, and (this is the good part) to not let the Feds know that they knew. Once the lid was blown off the whole thing, and it would only be a matter of time, the Feds have no discipline about that sort of thing, The Rommies could put on a big show of indignation and then extract some nice concession from their devious, rotten Fed allies...

All in all, the Rommies came out of the war better than anyone else did. That suggests they were hardly any sort of victim in all this.

 

[TheCoxinator]

It's hard to give an answer with out the benefit of hindsight.
I think perhaps, a novel series set a few years after DS9's finale in which the Romulans find out that all their soldiers died for a lie could be well worth reading. Maybe that's where the DS9 relaunch will head next?

 

[Broccoli]

It did have follow-up. The Romulans were in the war in every subsequent episode.

As for Sisko's shady dealing, then no follow up was needed. If they had an episode where Starfleet found out, then I don't think they would care. If they did an episode where another character found out, then it would just be a retread of ITPM, but with Sisko talking to the character instead of us.

No. No follow up needed.

 

[Uriel]

After ITPM, is there any difference between Sisko and Section 31? I would have liked an episode that forced sisko to answer that question. They could have had Bashir discover a way to destroy Section 31, and then made Sisko decide whether or not to stop him from going through with it. Sloan could use the events of ITPM to argue his case to Sisko.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

Actually, there was a follow up novel, Hollow Men, released a couple years ago. It featured Garak and Sisko on Earth dealing with the aftermath of Vreenak's murder during a strategy meeting between the allied powers. It's a fairly good read, on par with the Relaunch.

 

[CaptainJon]

As someone already said, there was follow-up to the events of the episode. We saw the results of what happened with the entry of the Romulans into the war.

I think it would have been very difficult to do an effective follow-up (as in sequel) to this episode, though. The only way that could've really been done is by the Romulans learning of the deception and seeing what they do in response. But then, you would either have had the Romulans switching sides in the war and turning against the Federation (giving the rest of the series a completely different outcome and would've required at least another season) or they would've brushed it aside. Just brushing it aside though, if not done right, would have felt like a rip-off or a quick fix.

But anyway, the events were followed up on, just not referenced again.

 

[JM1776]

Temis the Vorta said: The Rommies could put on a big show of indignation and then extract some nice concession from their devious, rotten Fed allies...

Of course, if the Romulans know (which I always believed the case; I've even considered a crossover with my own fanfic in which all this is revealed, entitled "Moonlight Sonata"), it's likely the Federation knows they know.

"'We're a very knowledgeable' alliance."

I always figured the Romulans attempted that which certain historians accused the United States of doing to England during World War II: Wait until she was on the ropes economically and militarily, then intervene with the understanding that the U.S. would dictate the disposition of the postwar world to a largish extent---which is essentially what occurred.

"In the Pale Moonlight" greatly accelerated their timetable, in all likelihood, but ... it was a golden opportunity to enter the war, and the Romulans are nothing if not adaptable.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

AdmiralGarak already pointed out what I was going to say, in regards to the follow-up to In The Pale Moonlight.

Plus, the ultimate mission was accomplished. The Romulans joined in the war. If you were one of the Admiralty back at Command, or on the Federation Council or serving as the President, would you really care what had to be done in order to secure the primary goal?

The ends justify the means.

I would have said inter arma enim silent leges, but...

 

[JM1776]

In which case I might reply, Male parta male dilabuntur.

Of course, when the writing calls for it ...

 

[Dancing Doctor]

JM1776 said:
In which case I might reply, Male parta male dilabuntur.

Of course, when the writing calls for it ...

The follow-up to ITPM would seem to be contingent on:

The information getting out, if it hasn't already, and
Either the Federation and Starfleet caring, or the Romulans caring.

While the first possibility is more likely to occur, it merely leads to the possibility of the second possibility, something I don't really see happening.

It would also depend on when the information gets out. During the war itself, it might be buried to be "dealt with later", meaning at a more opportune time.

After the war might have been a decent time, but only pre-2378ish, meaning within the year between the end of the Dominion war and the beginning of the Watraii conflict. Any time after that would occur during a time when the Romulans were very weak or dependent on the Federation's aid colonies.

 

[eastman23]

We all know that the Romulans are the masters of deception, plotting, etc, so maybe they would have been impressed that Starfleet had the guts to fabricate evidence of a Dominion invasion plan and knock off a Senator.

Besides, was there anything really wrong in what Sisko said about the Dominion? Whether Vreenak wanted to admit it or not, the Dominion would have turned their attention to Romulus sooner or later. It would be in the Romulans best interest to join the war while they still had others to ally with.

 

[JM1776]

Admiral Valeris said: The follow-up to ITPM would seem to be contingent on:

The information getting out, if it hasn't already, and
Either the Federation and Starfleet caring, or the Romulans caring.

Not necessarily.

Depending on the circumstances of the revelation, the story might well be about this person gradually realizing that no one does care---that the moral devolution of Starfleet personnel is continuing apace, at least from their perspective. That could make for some excellent drama.

It would also depend on when the information gets out. During the war itself, it might be buried to be "dealt with later," meaning at a more opportune time.

And for a more idealistic Starfleet officer, taught that truth is paramount at all times (and not just when it's convenient), it might well create serious internal turmoil.

After the war might have been a decent time, but only pre-2378ish, meaning within the year between the end of the Dominion war and the beginning of the Watraii conflict. Any time after that would occur during a time when the Romulans were very weak or dependent on the Federation's aid colonies.

I assume this "Watraii conflict" is a non-canonical Pocket Books occurrence? Since I'm not currently following the various Relaunches, and don't in the least consider even that which I have read---about 70% of it, I'd say---a part of my personal continuity, I can't speak to it.

 

[WalkinMan]

Not exactly the same thing, but somehow the destruction of Vreenak's shuttle as a precursor to joining the war reminds me of the Lusitania's sinking prior to the U.S. joining WWI.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

JM1776 said:
Not necessarily.

Depending on the circumstances of the revelation, the story might well be about this person gradually realizing that no one does care---that the moral devolution of Starfleet personnel is continuing apace, at least from their perspective. That could make for some excellent drama.

I suppose it would depend on the person. Sisko grappled with the issue, and possibly still does, but shelved it for the more pressing concern of survival. Hard to get worked up over a lie when you might die any day.

And for a more idealistic Starfleet officer, taught that truth is paramount at all times (and not just when it's convenient), it might well create serious internal turmoil.

Essentially, yes.

However, how many idealistic officers would there be in the middle of a conflict such as the Dominion War?

I assume this "Watraii conflict" is a non-canonical Pocket Books occurrence? Since I'm not currently following the various Relaunches, and don't in the least consider even that which I have read---about 70% of it, I'd say---a part of my personal continuity, I can't speak to it.

Yes, it is. It's part of the Vulcan's Soul trilogy, taking place a year after the Dominion War and up until...I want to say sometime in 2378. I included it because it greatly weakened the Romulan Empire, both politically and militarily.

 

[Yassim]

I'm so glad there was no follow-up episode. I hate the idea of milking an idea to death.

(the only follow-up episode I can think of, really, is "Paper Moon" which follows up, "The Siege of AR-558", but not very directly. With a show like DS9, you could argue they're all follow-ups...

and "Chrysalis", which was cute enough, but hardly worth an hour)

 

[JM1776]

Admiral Valeris said: Hard to get worked up over a lie when you might die any day.

I suppose that depends on the fundamental integrity of the man, as well as the scope of said lie.

It's not hard if how you live is as important to you as whether you do---which also speaks to truth and idealism.

However, how many idealistic officers would there be in the middle of a conflict such as the Dominion War?

The ones for whom idealism was not more an affectation than a vocation.

Since I hold that the ends often do not justify the means, I don't think we'll come to an accord, here.

 

[Navaros]

I have mixed feelings about this.

One the one hand, ITPM is a perfect masterpiece. Any followup would have to likewise be perfect, or else it would bastardize the original episode.

DS9 had a habit of totally bastardizing original concepts in episodes that followup with the same characters. Ie: Honor Among Thieves and Statistical Probablities are both fascinating, thought-provoking, entertaining masterpieces like ITPM. However, the episodes that used their characters again bastardized them horribly, and as episodes, were pointless, boring, abominations (Chrysalis, Prodigal Daughter).

There is no way they could make a followup to ITPM that would be as perfect as the original. But even worse, is that chances are the followup would be a complete bastardization of the original like the above examples.

On the other hand, the events of ITPM were so grand that they did require further followup in keeping with their significance. For this reason I would liked to have seen a followup to ITPM.

On the whole though, the bastardization risk is far too high so I'm voting to leave ITPM alone.

If there was a followup though, I don't think it should be about the Romulans finding out. Rather, it should be about the entire DS9 crew and Jake finding out and Sisko's internal confllicts about it amongst them.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

JM1776 said:
I suppose that depends on the fundamental integrity of the man, as well as the scope of said lie.

It's not hard if how you live is as important to you as whether you do---which also speaks to truth and idealism.

Picard.

The ones for whom idealism was not more an affectation than a vocation.

Since I hold that the ends often do not justify the means, I don't think we'll come to an accord, here.

I don't really think that the ends justify the means, merely that people can always make an exception and that it takes an exceptional individual to adhere to the truth when it's not beneficial to do so. Picard comes to mind.

 

[Uriel]

Picard comes to mind.

Yeah, like when he decloaks the Enterprise in front of the Romulans at the end of The Pegasus. That episode makes for an interesting contrast with ITPM. The stakes aren't the same, but Picard takes a risk to tell the the Romulans the truth, and Sisko takes a risk to tell them a lie.