Sure, but they’ll mostly abide what came before and what is to come.
So far the Klingons have not acted out of character from the other series.
Spoilers The Klingon Empire in Star Trek: Discovery
- Thread starter INACTIVEUSS Einstein
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Sure, but they’ll mostly abide what came before and what is to come.
So far the Klingons have not acted out of character from the other series.
It won’t be a major change, it will be something reconcile and explained.
"Rationalized" rather than explained.
What they've learned is that if they dot their Is and cross their Ts it doesn't matter so much if an explanation runs afoul of plausibility. Too many viewers are just doing crossword puzzles with continuity.
They're wearing Helmets with HUDs, I don't recall their function. I think they're either gunners or pilots.
The helmets were on display at Comic-Con and Vegas with an information plaque.
They are Klingon under the helmets.
You know, I even shared & spent ages identifying each of those pictures in the comiccon threads
Shame, I had hoped 'empire' was finally making it on screen with some client races!
Yes. But I remember differing evidence. On the one hand in TNG and DS9 they made clear than woman are considered equal warriors to men, and expected to be just as bloodthirsty. On the other hand, there was some evidence that women are not allowed to serve on the Klingon High Council (despite Gorkon's daughter becoming Chancellor of the Klingon Empire).
No, they haven't acted out of character, but I would like to see something that tied in TOS and TMP era Klingons with the new series more closely. In the Original Series, they were created as a rival state to the Federation that did not value individualism, and were based on all the worst totalitarian governments that people like Gene L Coon and Gene Roddenbury had fought in WW2. During The Motion Picture era, some of their most prominent citizens, such as Commander Kruge and General Chang, were completely unconcerned with any notion of Kahless, and acted as cynical militarists.
The Klingons from JJ Abrams movies were actually much more faithful to the spirit of the Klingons in TOS and TMP. I think showing elements of the military dictatorship side of the Klingon Empire, with scientific research, and heavy industry, perhaps showing how most of the Klingon species is under the boot of the warrior caste, would be good; constantly watched by the soldiery, organized into faceless work details, and assigned numbers. It was ENT that first hinted the Klingon Empire had a caste system like India or Japan, or the Minbari from Babylon 5. Something like warrior, scientist, worker, with scientists and workers being completely un-obsessed with honor, might be interesting.
It looks less and less likely now, but my idea of Klingon history was something like this:
- Old History - Klingons are divided into castes, warrior, scientist, worker. In medieval times, Molor becomes absolute dictator of the planet, like a Klingon Genghis Khan. Kahless defeats him, ends his tyranny, becoming Emperor of Qo'noS, and argues for a social system in which all castes are equal. The caste system persists, and Kahless's reforms bring mixed blessings.
- 22nd century - Klingons are a corrupt and bloated colonial empire like Tsarist Russia, led by an out-of-touch aristocracy, fat with personal profits, which has conquered many planets, but is now facing problems under the weight of their massive holdings.
- 23rd century - The Klingon Empire undergoes a totalitarian cultural revolution by elements of the military dissatisfied with the collapsing state of the empire, and who fear the highly efficient United Federation of Planets, which has arisen on their western galactic border. They regiment Klingon society into a vast totalitarian military state, decreeing absolute uniformity of purpose.
- 24th century - The Klingon military state collapses due to the ecological devastation caused by their over-mining of Praxis, and is reformed into a far freer society, but atavistic elements still long for the olden days, and threaten the peace. Picard, Sisko, and co. have to deal with the internal struggles between traditionalists and reformers.
When I first read about the ideas they had for Klingons in "Kitumba", I didn't like the idea of a Klingon Empire in which there was different classes who were badly mis-treated, because I thought it was kinda cowardly that they would keep defenceless people subjugated - but reading history, most of the warrior cultures became horrendous elitists and slave holders; they tend to be rather cowardly in their use of lower classes, etc - it also makes for good drama.
If they showed a work detail of average worker-caste Klingons who just don't care about Kahless or sacred beacons, or follow any of what we think of as Klingon culture, and are forced to process metal on the remote moon of some gas giant in Klingon space, it might be quite dramatic and show the internal diversity of the empire.
They seem to have absolutely no discrimination within the military. I would like to think that the Klingon Empire sees warrior women as absolutely natural, since anyone can kill in battle or show bravery, and it has never been any issue. Rather than say, the Peacekeepers from Farscape, where gender equality is just the natural state of affairs because the entire Sebacean society is a one totalitarian military unit - I would bet the Klingon idea of equality is rooted in more of a Dungeons and Dragons type notion that anyone can be a hero. I would like to think Klingons just detest the dishonorable notion that anyone is any different to one another, until proven different in battle.
But, unfortunately, outside of the military, a couple of episodes introduced hints of gender discrimination. The High Council of the Klingon Empire was once stated to not admit women (despite Azetbur having 100 years previously become absolute leader of the Klingon Empire in Star Trek VI without comment), and judging by "DS9: House of Quark", leadership of a noble house passes down between males in terms of inheritance, unless special permission is granted by the Klingon High Council or Chancellor.
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It seems the Klingons of Discovery are Syria around this time.
A simple timeline description is that it's a divided Westeros-esque Warlord society before the War with the Federation causes them to become a united Imperial Japan-esque state before shifting gradually back to Medieval Feudalist one.
A simple timeline description is that it's a divided Westeros-esque Warlord society before the War with the Federation causes them to become a united Imperial Japan-esque state before shifting gradually back to Medieval Feudalist one.
The Klingon Empire might be vast, more like the Russia of the galaxy.
Dr. Antaak in ENT being a significant example. A healer who rejected the martial traditions of his culture and genuinely regretted most of the aggressive actions taken to abduct Phlox and force him to labor on the Augment virus project. Antaak was in some respects one of the least Klingon Klingons ever depicted.
And per DS9, Klingon women weren't really supposed to become leader of a house except for special circumstances.
Edit: Ninja'd hours ago because I didn't read further before responding.
Kor
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Because Klingon culture became such a stereotype in later era Trek, I'm actually thinking they should go even further and just have worker Klingons be little different from humans in terms of culture - the warriors have this obsessive quasi-religious culture surrounding Kahless, and workers just don't even have a notion of it - they just live practically and between work details are off down the bar or whatever, rather than sharpening their bat'leth and singing about bloodwine.
If we subscribe to the interpretation of Kahless where he is genuinely a social reformer and not just a warlord elevated by the distance of history, then maybe his approach to tackling Qo'noS's problem with discrimination between classes was to suggest everyone could be a warrior. But it's a very restrictive and possibly self serving form of social liberation since the lower Klingon classes are still forced to abide by someone else's warlike social agenda.
Maybe caste discrimination continued in spite of Kahless, or maybe it came in later. Maybe the militarists during TOS were the ones who addressed caste by making all of Klingon society draftees in the armed forces? But as the Soviet Union was not actually that good for workers to live in, the Klingon Empire may have directed "techs" with just as much oppression as ever, under the justification that it was for the greater good.
As a RPG designer and author, I've often given thought to Klingon culture from the world building perspective. I like the idea the Warrior Caste gets the same attention as samurai do in cultural depictions of Japan's past.
The majority of Klingons don't give a crap about honor or didn't but all we meet are members of the military or people attached to the KDF. People who are military nobles or who want to be nobles.
Farmer Klingons or traders or so on would be far less aggressive.
You could even argue modern Klingon society is a flanderization (see TV tropes of itself) like Imperial Japan and using stories of the past to encourage peasants to rise up and imitate the people/caste they have no connection to.
It's like Game of Thrones--99% of the people are commoners but we only follow the Lannisters and Starks and other nobles around them.
The majority of Klingons don't give a crap about honor or didn't but all we meet are members of the military or people attached to the KDF. People who are military nobles or who want to be nobles.
Farmer Klingons or traders or so on would be far less aggressive.
You could even argue modern Klingon society is a flanderization (see TV tropes of itself) like Imperial Japan and using stories of the past to encourage peasants to rise up and imitate the people/caste they have no connection to.
It's like Game of Thrones--99% of the people are commoners but we only follow the Lannisters and Starks and other nobles around them.
Agreed - I think that would be refreshing.
It would also prevent Klingons being a mono-culture almost by definition. I would like a portrayal that was part TOS, part Kitumba, part The Final Reflection, and part TNG.
It would also prevent Klingons being a mono-culture almost by definition. I would like a portrayal that was part TOS, part Kitumba, part The Final Reflection, and part TNG.
On another note, I think these Klingons are so disgustingly hideous due to widespread deployment of an attempted genetic fix to the augment mutation.
Unfortunately, the "cure" was too aggressive, leading to a reptilian-like severe deformity characterized by loss of hair follicles, lizard-like fingers, a bonier face and neck including a huge brow that partially obscures their vision, loss of the ear auricle/pinna, some really weird skin tones including gray and bluish-purple, and humongous jagged teeth that make them sound like they're talking with a mouth full of marbles.
Proud, war-like creatures that they are, for now they have embraced this fearsome form so that they may strike fear into the hearts of their enemies, instead of trying to correct it yet again and possibly have things end up even worse than this!
Kor
Unfortunately, the "cure" was too aggressive, leading to a reptilian-like severe deformity characterized by loss of hair follicles, lizard-like fingers, a bonier face and neck including a huge brow that partially obscures their vision, loss of the ear auricle/pinna, some really weird skin tones including gray and bluish-purple, and humongous jagged teeth that make them sound like they're talking with a mouth full of marbles.
Proud, war-like creatures that they are, for now they have embraced this fearsome form so that they may strike fear into the hearts of their enemies, instead of trying to correct it yet again and possibly have things end up even worse than this!
Kor
On another note, I think these Klingons are so disgustingly hideous due to widespread deployment of an attempted genetic fix to the augment mutation.
Unfortunately, the "cure" was too aggressive, leading to a reptilian-like severe deformity characterized by loss of hair follicles, lizard-like fingers, a bonier face and neck including a huge brow that partially obscures their vision, loss of the ear auricle/pinna, some really weird skin tones including gray and bluish-purple, and humongous jagged teeth that make them sound like they're talking with a mouth full of marbles.
Proud, war-like creatures that they are, for now they have embraced this fearsome form so that they may strike fear into the hearts of their enemies, instead of trying to correct it yet again and possibly have things end up even worse than this!
Kor
No. The showrunners have already said the Klingons are bald because their ridges serve as sensory pits like a viper, allowing them to "see" from the back of their head, which is supposedly an advantage for a predatory race (actually, peripheral vision is better for prey species, but whatever, Trek always fucks up biology). Hair would get in the way, hence they are bald.
The only way to square this with the older depictions of Klingons is if they are another species entirely. I'd argue it's just a visual retcon, but DS9 and Enterprise have made it clear that there should at minimum be human-looking Klingons wandering around.
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