The Jedi are a "myth?"

[The Wormhole]

When Han is delivering exposition to Rey and Finn, Rey mentions "I thought the Jedi were only a myth" and Han responds "I used to, too."

Okay, so Rey has spent most of her life on a desolate backwater that makes Tatooine look like utopia, so I guess to her the Jedi are nothing but stories and legends. But Han grew up and lived among the galactic civilization. And while we know he didn't believe in the Force, the existence of the Jedi shouldn't have been a myth to him, since their existence is historical fact. Even with the Emperor presumably twisting the facts to minimize their role in the Clone Wars, his version of events is that they attempted stage a coup against him, and that's what left him disfigured. Not to mention the Jedi temple was still standing on Coruscant in the celebration scene in ROTJ. So whatever else Han might have believed, there's no way the Jedi were a myth to him.

Thoughts?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Episode III and Episode IV are 20 years apart. It does seem odd that the Jedi faded into such obscurity in that amount of time. It's possible that the Emperor struck them from the any and all records. The only people who would potentially remember them would be the older members of the Rebel Alliance. The fact that the Jedi were all essentially murdered also probably contributed to the Jedi being regarded as a myth. Seeing is believing, and no one has seen a Jedi since the before the Empire.

Also, while it might not be canon, in the EU, the Jedi Temple was said to have been converted into a training facility for Storm Troopers by Palpatine. Presumably as a way to mock the legacy of his former enemies.

 

[Skywalker]

It's pretty clear that when Episode IV was originally written, the idea was that the Empire had been around for a good while longer than 20 years. Possibly as much as twice that long.

 

[DWF]

It's pretty clear that when Episode IV was originally written, the idea was that the Empire had been around for a good while longer than 20 years. Possibly as much as twice that long.

No, in the prologue of the novel of the first movie it says that it took Palpatine 20 years to build the Empire and of course Luke and Leia were 20 years old. But there only about 20,000 Jedi left in Ep. III it's doubtful for the teenager that Han was at the time he really believed the stories of the Jedi.

 

[Skywalker]

It's pretty clear that when Episode IV was originally written, the idea was that the Empire had been around for a good while longer than 20 years. Possibly as much as twice that long.

No, in the prologue of the novel of the first movie it says that it took Palpatine 20 years to build the Empire and of course Luke and Leia were 20 years old. But there only about 20,000 Jedi left in Ep. III it's doubtful for the teenager that Han was at the time he really believed the stories of the Jedi.

I never actually read the novelizations. I guess I stand corrected, but the vibe I always got was that the Jedi had been gone for more than 20 years.

I just don't see how young Han could have believed the Jedi weren't real during the Clone Wars, though. If he's around Harrison Ford's real age at the time of filming ANH then he should have been old enough to know about the Jedi leading the clone army into battle against the Separatists. This was a massive war that ravaged the galaxy and the Jedi were front and center for it.

 

[dahj]

Apparently there are no news services in the Star Wars universe, and the only way information travels is through word of mouth.

It may be in space and they've got blasters and holograms and spaceships, but in its essence the setting is basically medieval(or older).

 

[Tosk]

People believe all kinds of nutty shit. Why can't Han have been a Jedi-denier? He just never met one, I guess.

 

[EnsignRicky]

It's pretty clear that when Episode IV was originally written, the idea was that the Empire had been around for a good while longer than 20 years. Possibly as much as twice that long.

No, in the prologue of the novel of the first movie it says that it took Palpatine 20 years to build the Empire and of course Luke and Leia were 20 years old. But there only about 20,000 Jedi left in Ep. III it's doubtful for the teenager that Han was at the time he really believed the stories of the Jedi.

There is no mention in the prologue or anywhere else for that matter of exactly how much time has passed since Palpatine assumed control. Until he began doing the math for the Prequels, Lucas himself was even thinking it might be closer to forty years. It would make more sense why they decided to go with a 78 year old Sebastian Shaw to portray Anakin back in Episode VI.

 

[Mage]

Ask yourself.... How many of the really important people from 20 years ago can you still remember?

You'd be surprised how easy it is to forget. And, I also remember from one of the Clone Wars comics, that even during the Clone Wars, most people had never seen/encountered Jedi, only knew them from comics.
Now, with so many species bringing billions upon billions of individuals to the galaxy, and 'only' 20.000 Jedi..... If almost all of them are suddenly slain, it's not that hard to believe that most people would dismiss them as myth and legend.

 

[DWF]

It's pretty clear that when Episode IV was originally written, the idea was that the Empire had been around for a good while longer than 20 years. Possibly as much as twice that long.

No, in the prologue of the novel of the first movie it says that it took Palpatine 20 years to build the Empire and of course Luke and Leia were 20 years old. But there only about 20,000 Jedi left in Ep. III it's doubtful for the teenager that Han was at the time he really believed the stories of the Jedi.

There is no mention in the prologue or anywhere else for that matter of exactly how much time has passed since Palpatine assumed control. Until he began doing the math for the Prequels, Lucas himself was even thinking it might be closer to forty years. It would make more sense why they decided to go with a 78 year old Sebastian Shaw to portray Anakin back in Episode VI.

My fault then, but Luke and Leia were a mere 20 years old in ANH. And really it's hard to go by the actors ages.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The West Wing is always rattling around in my head.

Hans Bethe wrote, "If we fight a war and win it with H-bombs what history will remember is not the ideals we were fighting for but the methods used to accomplish them. These methods will be compared to the warfare of Genghis Khan who brutally killed every last inhabitant of Persia.

This is interesting.

The Soviets tried to snuff out his memory in Mongolia.

Genghis Khan is now seen as a national hero and founding father of Mongolia, but during the era of Soviet rule in the 20th century, the mere mention of his name was banned. Hoping to stamp out all traces of Mongolian nationalism, the Soviets tried to suppress the Khan’s memory by removing his story from school textbooks and forbidding people from making pilgrimages to his birthplace in Khentii. Genghis Khan was eventually restored to Mongolian history after the country won independence in the early 1990s, and he’s since become a recurring motif in art and popular culture. The Great Khan lends his name to the nation’s main airport in the city of Ulan Bator, and his portrait even appears on Mongolian currency.

There are two reasonably expensive Persian rugs in my house.

 

[dahj]

Ask yourself.... How many of the really important people from 20 years ago can you still remember?

You'd be surprised how easy it is to forget.

You may forget someone's name off-hand, but I doubt anyone today thinks Bill Clinton was a mythical figure that didn't really exist...

 

[DWF]

Ask yourself.... How many of the really important people from 20 years ago can you still remember?

You'd be surprised how easy it is to forget.

You may forget someone's name off-hand, but I doubt anyone today thinks Bill Clinton was a mythical figure that didn't really exist...

Well people do as have an idealized view of the JFK era as being Camelot and the 1914 flu pandemic was pretty much forgetten about now long afterward.

 

[Shawnster]

It's pretty clear that when Episode IV was originally written, the idea was that the Empire had been around for a good while longer than 20 years. Possibly as much as twice that long.

No, in the prologue of the novel of the first movie it says that it took Palpatine 20 years to build the Empire and of course Luke and Leia were 20 years old. But there only about 20,000 Jedi left in Ep. III it's doubtful for the teenager that Han was at the time he really believed the stories of the Jedi.

I never actually read the novelizations. I guess I stand corrected, but the vibe I always got was that the Jedi had been gone for more than 20 years.

I just don't see how young Han could have believed the Jedi weren't real during the Clone Wars, though. If he's around Harrison Ford's real age at the time of filming ANH then he should have been old enough to know about the Jedi leading the clone army into battle against the Separatists. This was a massive war that ravaged the galaxy and the Jedi were front and center for it.

Let's reason on it just from ANH.

Luke is about 20 years old. Luke's father, Anakin, trained with Obi Wan, fought with him in the Clone Wars and was betrayed and murdered by Darth Vader. This betrayal and "murder" had to take place after Luke was conceived. Vader helped hunt down the Jedi. In fact, Vader was a young Jedi before being seduced by the Dark Side.

So, sometime in roughly 20 years all this happened. It could be considered that Anakin was much older when Luke was conceived and that the Jedi purge had already started. But when you piece everything together from just ANH, ESB and RotJ you see the picture that Jedi Knight Anakin conceived Luke before turning to the Dark Side. He then turns, becomes Darth Vader and hunts down the Jedi.

 

[EnsignRicky]

No, in the prologue of the novel of the first movie it says that it took Palpatine 20 years to build the Empire and of course Luke and Leia were 20 years old. But there only about 20,000 Jedi left in Ep. III it's doubtful for the teenager that Han was at the time he really believed the stories of the Jedi.

There is no mention in the prologue or anywhere else for that matter of exactly how much time has passed since Palpatine assumed control. Until he began doing the math for the Prequels, Lucas himself was even thinking it might be closer to forty years. It would make more sense why they decided to go with a 78 year old Sebastian Shaw to portray Anakin back in Episode VI.

My fault then, but Luke and Leia were a mere 20 years old in ANH. And really it's hard to go by the actors ages.

I believe it was also Lucas's original intention that Anakin was much older when he turned to the Dark Side.

 

[RunawayStarShip]

Perhaps Han is referring to the Jedi as mystical knights with magical powers derived from some "Force" while wielding lightsabers as being the myth. A more cynical interpretation from someone who never saw one in person would probably go for well-trained lightsaber-wielders as being a reality while other traits are exaggerated or make-believe.

 

[DWF]

There is no mention in the prologue or anywhere else for that matter of exactly how much time has passed since Palpatine assumed control. Until he began doing the math for the Prequels, Lucas himself was even thinking it might be closer to forty years. It would make more sense why they decided to go with a 78 year old Sebastian Shaw to portray Anakin back in Episode VI.

My fault then, but Luke and Leia were a mere 20 years old in ANH. And really it's hard to go by the actors ages.

I believe it was also Lucas's original intention that Anakin was much older when he turned to the Dark Side.

The original intention was that Anakin and Vader were two different people and Leia wasn't Luke's sister. We reaqlly can judge by the end result.

 

[DWF]

Perhaps Han is referring to the Jedi as mystical knights with magical powers derived from some "Force" while wielding lightsabers as being the myth. A more cynical interpretation from someone who never saw one in person would probably go for well-trained lightsaber-wielders as being a reality while other traits are exaggerated or make-believe.

TFA kind of screws up Han's quote from ANH where he says he doesn't believe in the Force, clearly in ROTJ he's heard of the Jedi, but in OT he makes no mention of not believing in their existance.

 

[Makarov]

It's just an error. It's a line meant for the audience to make jedi seem mysterious or play on the nostalgia of them not being around in movies for a while.

 

[Trekker4747]

Ask yourself.... How many of the really important people from 20 years ago can you still remember?

20 years ago? You mean.... 1995? Where most, if not all, the world leaders of the time are still alive today? The wife of one whom is campaigning for President of the United States? For the second time? 20 years ago is that much long a time ago. Now, I may not be able to accurately *name* any of them. What, Yeltsin was over Russia? But that's simply because I'm just not strictly good with names, and I was a teenager then and didn't really care about politics or world leaders. But I certainly don't believe any of them were mythical people who may or may not have existed.

You may forget someone's name off-hand, but I doubt anyone today thinks Bill Clinton was a mythical figure that didn't really exist...

Al Gore.... The legends were true!

Well people do as have an idealized view of the JFK era as being Camelot and the 1914 flu pandemic was pretty much forgetten about now long afterward.

JFK being 50 years ago and the 1914 pandemic being 100 years ago. All different than 20 years ago.

That's the problem, Han was alive and a teenager (?) when the Jedi were slaughtered, but he was ALIVE when the Jedi were around and going around the galaxy doing Jedi things. There's no reason why he should think the concept of the Jedi or The Force should be a myth, he was alive and capable of forming memories when it was actually happening.