The point is that Luke was unwilling not to try to save Vader. Instead, Luke could have chosen to let Vader go his own way and meet his own end. That sounds like a kind of "attachment" to me.
The Jedi and love
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Luke got his ass kicked.
Luke lost.
The darkside won.
Then Palpatines's buddy, OUT OF NOWHERE, stabs him in the back and throws him off a balcony.
Spite zap the #$##er.
woosh.
More woosh.
Splat.
Luke survived, he didn't win.
Vader didn't switch sides because of empathy, compassion or love.
In the beginning Anikan became Sith to save a hypothetical family, but upon seeing actually how awesome that family was, Vader realized that he had made a huge mistake. This blond dipshit getting his beans handed to him by his boyfriend should have stayed a shameful secret on Tatooine.
Luke lost.
The darkside won.
Then Palpatines's buddy, OUT OF NOWHERE, stabs him in the back and throws him off a balcony.
Spite zap the #$##er.
woosh.
More woosh.
Splat.
Luke survived, he didn't win.
Vader didn't switch sides because of empathy, compassion or love.
In the beginning Anikan became Sith to save a hypothetical family, but upon seeing actually how awesome that family was, Vader realized that he had made a huge mistake. This blond dipshit getting his beans handed to him by his boyfriend should have stayed a shameful secret on Tatooine.
Luke didn't go there to kill the Emperor. He went there to redeem his father and had no real expectation of surviving it. Whatever happened in the Emperor's throne room it wouldn't have stopped the Death Star exploding a few minutes later and probably killing them all. Though I wouldn't characterise it as "winning" or "loosing" since it wasn't a competition and there was no prize to be had. He achieved his goal and redeemed his father. Had he not gone, had he not refused to cut Vader down, it wouldn't have happened.
Before we saw Revenge of the Sith, yes what you are saying was the valid argument.
Now?
"I cut 2 or 300 children in half with my light sabre to save Padme who was going to die in childbirth maybe."
Possibly Vader himself thought that he was redeemed, which is why he was able to internally switch back to light from dark and become a force ghost, if it's just a question of internal reflection that can be manipulated with rationalizations and denial, but did anyone actually tell Luke that Aikan Skywalker walked into a kindergarten and turned it into an abattoir full of decapitated and bifurcated 4 year olds?
Externally if Vader had to be judged by someone to account if he was worthy of redemption or not, it would take more than delivering your son to a homicidal madman who is most certainly going to kill Luke, then watching your son getting BBQed for 5 minutes with lightning and only then doing something about it because the boy seems to be in pain.
In all honesty the smell of Luke's broiled flesh at the hands of the emperor, probably reminded Vader of all the children he burnt and hacked into sausage meat when the Jedi fell, which is finally when Vader realized that murdering children with lasers is not cool, which is when he realizes AGAIN, that he made a huge mistake.
Now?
"I cut 2 or 300 children in half with my light sabre to save Padme who was going to die in childbirth maybe."
Possibly Vader himself thought that he was redeemed, which is why he was able to internally switch back to light from dark and become a force ghost, if it's just a question of internal reflection that can be manipulated with rationalizations and denial, but did anyone actually tell Luke that Aikan Skywalker walked into a kindergarten and turned it into an abattoir full of decapitated and bifurcated 4 year olds?
Externally if Vader had to be judged by someone to account if he was worthy of redemption or not, it would take more than delivering your son to a homicidal madman who is most certainly going to kill Luke, then watching your son getting BBQed for 5 minutes with lightning and only then doing something about it because the boy seems to be in pain.
In all honesty the smell of Luke's broiled flesh at the hands of the emperor, probably reminded Vader of all the children he burnt and hacked into sausage meat when the Jedi fell, which is finally when Vader realized that murdering children with lasers is not cool, which is when he realizes AGAIN, that he made a huge mistake.
I saw no evidence that monster was a "she."
And Yoda's Gay too now?
I was wondering about Luke training his Jedi Apprentices... Did these children (I'm assuming?) have to carry Master Luke every where in a bjorn while he prattled about the forces of the universe flowing through them?
I was wondering about Luke training his Jedi Apprentices... Did these children (I'm assuming?) have to carry Master Luke every where in a bjorn while he prattled about the forces of the universe flowing through them?
Depending on which Jedi you're talking about and which fan fic you're reading...
I read an excellent fan fic, an ObiDala in case you're wondering, that offered the idea that Anakin couldn't love Padme enough to let her go. Padawans were forbidden to "love" because they needed to learn how to love without being able to let go if things weren't working out.
I read an excellent fan fic, an ObiDala in case you're wondering, that offered the idea that Anakin couldn't love Padme enough to let her go. Padawans were forbidden to "love" because they needed to learn how to love without being able to let go if things weren't working out.
The Aprenti that Kylo Ren butchered.
"Don't worry Uncle Luke, if you forgave granddaddy for wackling younglings, you'll forgive me too, right?
"Don't worry Uncle Luke, if you forgave granddaddy for wackling younglings, you'll forgive me too, right?
Maybe but I don't believe the main purpose was to have an epic forbidden love (or to suggest love was bad). I can't remember the specific interview but Lucas did say Luke's love for his father saved him. It was more to point out that the Jedi were out of touch, both with the living force and the people they served. Yes, attachments are bad and they don't want somebody saving a spouse or their own child over a stranger who needs more help. But love is an important part of life experience and they don't know how to relate to someone who has lost a family member or romantic partner. Take Yoda's response to Anakin's dreams about losing Padme. Mourn them not? I love Yoda but he was completely tone-deaf here. He has no clue what to say. Forbidding marriage was kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I wouldn't say the Jedi were as corrupt as the Republic but some of it trickled down.
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Right. According to a number of eastern philosophies, attachment is when the mind clamps down on something and gets swept away with it. Basically, you get carried away. It means that when you're attached to something, you miss out on other things that need your attention because you're preoccupied. Can't help those who need help when you're too occupied with the wellbeing of only certain people or even other matters and can't be bothered. True love is supposed to be the opposite of attachment. It's what happens when you are free from being preoccupied. Luke saved his father, in part, because he didn't let hate occupy him. He let it go.
The Jedi, like a lot of real-world religions, lost that spirit and turned to following rules instead. Good on Lucas for copying that as well. Now with the prophecy fulfilled through Akakin and the reset button hit, Luke can get things back on track. Will he? We'll see. Maybe someone else will have to show him the way. Maybe Rey will exercise that true love and save the day.
Will Rey find romance in the process? Hopefully no. Romance is another word for fantasy, not love. Will she find a relationship? With an unencumbered mind, why not. That's the best place to find and start one. And if the writers of the next two films have equally unencumbered minds, it'll be great.
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All thought is theft.
My earlier argument about her shutin PTSD life in the desert, how she is focussed on her pattern and emotionally void... UM, that's Jedi. She accidentally trained herself though isolation and rocking back and forth to a mantra "They're coming back for me, they're coming back for me" to empty her mind and accept the blank nihilistic hole that is reality and given in obediently to absolute numbness.
As Rey's life reopens, her ability to use the force like a Jedi will retard.
She's either a person capable of emotion, or he's (accidentally) Jedi.
Rey can't be both.
Returning to this thread with a bit less flippancy, these actually are good points. I'm very surprised I skated over both of them, even in full on anti-TFA rant mode. Did you by any chance add either of them in edits? The second one in particular I don't recall being there when I quoted that post, otherwise I'd think I would have responded to it rather than snipping it out. In any case, sorry.
As to the first, I suppose I've more or less assumed that it's going to turn out that Luke is the one who left her on Jakku, and that he is her father. That might seem a big assumption to make, since it's not confirmed in the film, but let me explain what leads me to think so. In previous conversations the prevailing theory given in answer to my gripe about Rey suddenly developing a full set of Jedi powers out of nowhere has been that she must have had some training as a child and that we have a sort of Jason Bourne or Long Kiss Goodnight situation going on with her. It certainly makes more sense if Ren's digging around in her head unearthed something beyond mere potential for force sensitivity—because it should take a lot more than that for her to be able to do mind tricks and fight adeptly with a lightsaber—which was already within her, but suppressed. And if she was trained, then it was probably Luke who trained her, since he was the one training new Jedi. She also seems to have some personal connection to his lightsaber, which was also his father's before him. This is all a bit speculative, I know, but I'm hardly the only one who wouldn't have been at all surprised if the movie had ended with "Rey, I am your father." Of course, they did deliberately subvert that expectation by ending the movie before she and Luke say anything to each other...so it's possible they will continue this by revealing something entirely different. We'll see, I guess.
As to the second, are you saying that even if he was sexually attracted to and wanted more than friendship with her at first, he might have lost this desire later on? That is obviously quite possible, and does happen in real life sometimes. But what exactly transpires in the film after this that leads you to think it is in fact the case here?
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Well, he could be bisexual. Or maybe sexuality isn't even a consideration, if all you're looking for a fuck buddy and not interested in lasting connections, does gender matter?
Alternatively, is there anything in Yoda's backstory (either Disney Canon or Legends Continuity) that says he can't be gay?
Are we even sure he... I suppose if Yoda was a lady, they would have called him Mistress Yoda? I don't actually recall any of the jedi being called mistress instead of master, so maybe they don't do that, separate the genders?
http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:459374
http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:459374
Yoda's definitely a guy, there is a female of his species named Yaddle on the Jedi Council in TPM. According to Legends, she was only in her 400s and was rumoured to have spent an entire century in captivity.
I googled.
That's an April fools joke from 2005.
Pity.
Yaddle is hot.
That's an April fools joke from 2005.
Pity.
Yaddle is hot.
Yaddle left the order after Yoda knocked her up and claimed that child support was a form of attachment.
Lucas sucked at writing romance, so mercifully he decided that OG Jedi couldn't have any.
Yoda was the primary enforcer of the Jedi Code, so I am guessing he had some issues....
Yoda was the primary enforcer of the Jedi Code, so I am guessing he had some issues....
