The Jedi and love

[{ Emilia }]

The way the Jedi (or George Lucas?) handled love has always annoyed me. They had to live this celibacy because... uhh.. reasons.

I always felt that the Jedi idea that strong emotions are bad, is really dumb. And in a way that might acually be what Lucas was trying to tell us in the prequels. The way the Jedi expected Anakin to ignore his feelings for Padme definitely contributed to his downfall.

So apparently the Jedi have a huge issue with love and maybe also sexuality. To some degree Luke was a different kind of Jedi in the original trilogy. Not bound by the silly rules of the Jedi he was allowed to be more emotional which wasn't always a bad thing. He defeated Vader because Vader threatened the sister Luke loved, and he still didn't fall to the dark side because of it.

I was hoping the new trilogy would complete this development and finally turn the Jedi to embrace love. I suppose it's possible that Luke has run off to hide on that planet because he has embraced love and things went horribly wrong. But there's still a chance for them to overcome that in the next two movies.

I suppose I have several questions here:

1) Does Star Wars simply not need the romance angle? I guess it does, the Han/Leia romance has been a big part of SW history.
2) Do you agree that the Jedi should give up the no-love nonsense and become more human? It would seem to be a healthy choice.
3) Do we really want a romantic interest for Rey in the movie? We're so glad that there's finally a strong and complex female protagonist who is not defined by her relationship to a man. But I guess, if done right, I would totally support a love interest for her. They'd just need to add a good characer (male or female) for that. Finn is completely out of question as it's so refreshing to finally see a true male-female friendship in a movie.
4) Will we still not see any Jedi in love in the new movies? I suppose the Finn-Poe romance is going to be fun and they're such a cute couple but I'd still like the Jedi to finally grow out of their love-negative attitudes and embrace the fact that emotions aren't always bad.

 

[Guy Gardener]

1. They didn't say no sex. They just said no love. I've been assured that the best way to have sex with someone you don't love, is marriage.

2. Finn is totally into Rey, and he was called on it. He wants her, doesn't know how to do anything about it, and she hasn't noticed.

 

[SPCTRE]

They didn't say no sex

sex for a Jedi is okay but only if it happens in a completely detached, emotionless manner, otherwise orgasms lead to the Dark Side

2. Finn is totally into Rey Poe

FTFY

 

[SPCTRE]

First of all, great thread!

3) Do we really want a romantic interest for Rey in the movie?

this question is really interesting to me, because I'm such a big fan of Rey as a character - I genuinely think she wouldn't be improved by getting a love story component, unless it was done incredibly well (as you said, not defining her through a presumably male love interest), which, I don't have a lot of confidence in the Star Wars franchise to do love well - even with this new brand of Disney SW, which I generally adore so far ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2) Do you agree that the Jedi should give up the no-love nonsense and become more human? It would seem to be a healthy choice.

IMO, the Jedi no-love policy makes for a good premise because it is so flawed and misguided (doomed to fail what with love conquering all and all that), it basically creates tension for "free", from a storytelling standpoint

 

[{ Emilia }]

1. They didn't say no sex. They just said no love. I've been assured that the best way to have sex with someone you don't love, is marriage.

That joke is so old that its beard is long enough for it to move into a hipster commune in Williamsburg, Brooklyn.

2. Finn is totally into Rey, and he was called on it. He wants her, doesn't know how to do anything about it, and she hasn't noticed.

Thanks for completely ignoring the whole point of the thread. This isn't about whether a man is showing some one-sided interest in a woman. I was talking about love. There's nothing to support your claim since it makes perfect sense for them to form a strong friendship. They've both never had a friend.
Plus Finn is much cuter with Poe.

Now can we stop this silly side argument? I was asking general questions about the Jedi and Rey so why do you insist on talking about whether or not some man is into Rey?
This thread is about the Jedi and thus Rey's feelings and how she will handle love.

this question is really interesting to me, because I'm such a big fan of Rey as a character - I genuinely think she wouldn't be improved by getting a love story component, unless it was done incredibly well (as you said, not defining her through a presumably male love interest),

I agree that it wouldn't improve Rey's character. It would probably actually hurt the character a little unless the romance really was done super-well. It's great that she is not defined by a relationship to a man and it's great that she can have a perfectly normal friendship with a man.

But I do think bringing love into it would actually add something to the Jedi's story, you know? The Jedi have totally failed at dealing with questions of love. So for Rey to be the next step in solving this problem would be great. Luke was a start and his dad was the ultimate failure.

Maybe it's asking too much but I'd love if the Jedi as a whole developed into a more love-positive group in the future since their stupid rules clearly didn't lead anywhere.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Rey shouldn't have to force men and women to fall in love with her or service her, possibly against their will. She shouldn't have to go on a massive quest to find a boyfriend or girlfriend, mostly because she's too busy on a different quest to care about romantic love.

Isn't she looking for a parent or a sibling?

That's the love that Rey is worried about.

Nuclear familial love.

It doesn't matter that there is boy raised mostly in a tank with zero life experiences is into her, because she hasn't noticed, and he hasn't the stones to do anything about it.

This budding one sided crush might as well not exist unless he's going to step up or she's going to open her yes.

But that does mean that Finn is not her friend.

He wants to be more than a friend, which is very different form being a friend.

They do not have a friendship.

She has a friendship.

He has an unactivated romantic relationship.

If Rey noticed she would probably tell him to quit it, because this woman does not seem to be interested in finding a partner or sex opponent.

She's busy.

 

[LJones41]

I noticed that unlike other characters, many fans are beating the drum for Rey to either continue the trilogy without a love interest . . . or develop one with Kylo Ren. Why? Why are they so afraid of the prospect of a Rey/Finn romance in the first place?

Why is it suddenly so necessary that Rey not have a romantic interest? This is supposed to be feminism?

 

[The Wormhole]

Why are they so afraid of the prospect of a Rey/Finn romance in the first place?

I don't think anyone's "afraid" of a Rey/Finn romance. We just think a Finn/Poe romance makes much more sense.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I noticed that unlike other characters, many fans are beating the drum for Rey to either continue the trilogy without a love interest . . . or develop one with Kylo Ren. Why? Why are they so afraid of the prospect of a Rey/Finn romance in the first place?

Why is it suddenly so necessary that Rey not have a romantic interest? This is supposed to be feminism?

I think people just find it refreshing to see a strong female character bonding and forming a friendship with a man. It's so rare for movies to portray a real friendship between a woman and a man that it'd be great to keep that in Star Wars.
Yet another male-and-female duo of protagonists falling in love would just be more of the same. I think we're all a bit tired of the idea that men and women can't just be friends when real life gives us countless examples of true friendships between men and women.

I'm not going to whine and moan if the two end up falling in love. I just don't think I'd want it to happen. Finn and Poe are a much cuter couple anyway. There's some sexual tension there already.

And to address @Guy Gardener's silly rant. Of course she's busy, and of course there's no need for her to go out looking for a love interest now. But if she somehow happens to find someone along the way, it could really help develop the Jedi in a positive way. Weren't they casting another female main character? Maybe she could be Rey's love interest.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Rey is not Jedi.

A Jedi is an ordained priest.

This lady hasn't even locked down a Jedi bible yet.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Yeah, what Jedi? They're all dead, aren't they? Luke and his kiddies (and wait, aren't they all dead too? except the one who killed them all and Rey, if she secretly is one) are neo-Jedi at best. Like you said, whose rules are they following, exactly?

The way the Jedi (or George Lucas?) handled love has always annoyed me. They had to live this celibacy because... uhh.. reasons.

The great warrior skills coming at the cost of celibacy thing is, like, a thing. A trope, I think it's called. I agree it was handled pretty awkwardly there, though.

We're so glad that there's finally a strong and complex female protagonist who is not defined by her relationship to a man.

Except that bit where she instantly develops Jedi powers from being (mind) raped by one.

(Ok, not instantly. It takes her, like, a minute.)

And that bit where her motivation is all about looking for her daddy. (Did she find him there at the end, do we think? Did she get [mind] raped by her cousin?)

Finn is completely out of question as it's so refreshing to finally see a true male-female friendship in a movie.

Uh, Finn totally wants to bang her. He might want to bang Poe too, that's possible, sure. But he definitely wants to bang her. Now, some would indeed say: yep, that's a true male-female friendship all right. Yet somehow I don't think that's what you meant...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sex is not love. It's possible because he was brought up in a tank that Finn doesn't know what sex is, or even kissing.

Jedi are not allowed parents.

Forbidden.

The love for a parent can turn them to the darkside.

If Rey had to decide between looking for her family or being Jedi, she is going to pick her family.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Uh, Finn totally wants to bang her. He might want to bang Poe too, that's possible, sure. But he definitely wants to bang her. Now, some would indeed say: yep, that's a true male-female friendship all right. Yet somehow I don't think that's what you meant...

This thread is about how Jedi handle love.
Not about whether or not some dude wants to bang a woman.

(
As an aside:
You're projecting. Nothing in the movie indicates that and it's beside the point anyway. They're important to each other because they've never had a friend before. Rey is the first person to treat Finn like an individual and that is exactly what he tells her.
You have a very sad one-dimensional view of men if you think men can't think of anything but "banging" their female friends. If I were a man, I'd feel insulted.

Also, why do you think Rey is looking for her daddy? She could be looking for her mom, too. OR, you know, both... it seems you can only think of women by bringing up their connection to a man.
)

Any chance at all we can go back to talking about the Jedi and love? And whether or not a love interest for Rey would be a good addition to the movies or her character?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't think either sex or love were the problem the Jedi had. It was attachment. I thought that Obi-Wan basically hinted that he could get laid, but it was families and a steady relationship that the Jedi weren't allowed to have. Why? Reasons. Perhaps it had to do with setting priorities. Perhaps the Jedi wanted to be sure that their knights and masters would never put other interests first before the Jedi Order.

1. Back in the day of 1979, one of the questions going into TESB was: Who will end up with Leia, Han or Luke? I wouldn't necessarily call it a love triangle, because no one was actually involved at that point, but the fact that there two males vying for Leia was established no later than in the cockpit of Millennium Falcon after they'd all escaped from the Death Star. (And, earlier Luke had said that Leia was beautiful, on first seeing the recording for Obi-Wan, and Han had already said that he was beginning to like Leia when she blasted the hole open to the garbage chute.) The idea that there might be a love triangle was played up in TESB, when Leia frenched Luke after he'd been rescued from the snow. That was just a way (ham-fisted or not) of keeping the suspense to the Han/Leia relationship.

Of course, romance played a big role in the PT, even though it was badly executed.

So, yes, romance has played a role in SW. Does it always have to? Not necessarily, but these are people we're talking about, so maybe, yeah it does have to have at least some love and romance in it. Love is a part of human nature, right?

2. Well, the problem was attachment. And I agree, the prohibition against romantic relationships seemed to be more or less highlighted as a flaw in the Jedi. In this new trilogy, Luke's charge is basically to fix the Jedi. No doubt with Rey's help, Luke must defeat the First Order and their dark side leadership and set the galaxy aright. It's a great observation that, in the duel between Luke and Vader in ROTJ, Luke was able to balance on the edge between light and dark while staying on the light side. Maybe this will be the ace up his sleeve, though no doubt it will be difficult to master. I agree, Luke got strength from his attachment to his sister, but he was also in danger of falling to the dark side because of it. Anakin fell in part because of his attachments to his mother and to Padmé.

Anyway, yes, I believe it would be nice if the new Jedi could have families, get attached, be more whole as the people/aliens of their kind. Sounds healthier. And, there's a parallel there with clergy being allowed to marry.

3. Yes to romance for Rey, if done right, i.e. without compromising Rey's character.

4. I hope so.

 

[BillJ]

2) Do you agree that the Jedi should give up the no-love nonsense and become more human? It would seem to be a healthy choice.

I don't know? Seems like a tough call, because we see what happens when someone close is put in danger, Anakin Skywalker went completely batshit crazy. Love and that kind of raw power can have unintended consequence.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

You're projecting. Nothing in the movie indicates that

Maybe you're projecting. I seem to remember him asking her "so, like, you got a boyfriend?"...or something pretty on-the-nose-wink-wink-to-the-audience as being to that effect. I think it was aboard the Falcon before Han and ChewusesJustForMen™ showed up. I don't think that was the only bit, either, but I ain't goin' back to watch this turkey again to find out for sure, not for a while anyway.

You have a very sad one-dimensional view of men if you think men can't think of anything but "banging" their female friends.

No, I don't, that's my point. Holding this up as an example of a "refreshingly" portrayed "true male-female friendship" makes it look—unintentionally, I gather—like you do.

 

[{ Emilia }]

The boyfriend line was way before they even developed a friendship and the stuff I refereed to about their friendship (and it was kinda creepy anyway).
@The Mighty Monkey of Mim So what's your thought on whether or not the movies should aim at remodeling the Jedi attitude towards love anyway?
I mean, it's what the thread is about. I don't see what Finn's potential desires have to do with any of this.

 

[Kor]

Luke didn't need a romantic relationship in the OT, and Rey doesn't need one in the (what are we calling this new trilogy, again?)

Kor

 

[Gov Kodos]

1) Does Star Wars simply not need the romance angle?

It's no more needed than it was needed in any film. That only ever seems to come up as a question when a film, or any media really, has a man and woman in it. The film has a woman? Who's gonna get her?

2) Do you agree that the Jedi should give up the no-love nonsense and become more human?

Worked well enough in 'Kung Fu' for the most part. The Jedi seem to be spiritual monks like Qui Chang Cain, or at least they did at first.

3) Do we really want a romantic interest for Rey in the movie?

She seems fine without it. Rey and Finn have a great dynamic as pals. A man and woman as friends in a movie, now there's sci/fi and fantasy for you.

4) Will we still not see any Jedi in love in the new movies?

I expect they'll have some drama over it, probably involving Rey.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Luke didn't need a romantic relationship in the OT, and Rey doesn't need one in the (what are we calling this new trilogy, again?)

Kor

Luke and Mara Jade had each other in the novels/comics/games and she was delightful.