The James Bond Film Discussion Thread (With Bonus Lazenby!)

[The Realist]

We got two movies where he was "too young and too inexperienced" (that happened at pretty much the same time) and then we instantly moved right along to "You're too old and your best days are behind you."

I observed a while back that movies never seem to want to show heroes in their prime anymore. What you just observed about the Craig Bonds was one example. The Kelvinverse Star Trek movies followed an almost identical pattern: Kirk was a tyro in the first two films, then suddenly weary and burned out on space travel by the third. Henry Cavill's initially inexperienced Superman apparently became a beloved hero sometime between Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, but we never get to see it, only when the world turns against him and everything goes to shit.

I miss the days of Superman '78 and the classic Bonds when we weren't so reluctant to let heroes just be cool and awesome, instead of novices or balls of angst.

 

[Tallguy]

apparently became a beloved hero sometime between Man of Steel and Batman v Superman

Well. Contrary to "popular" opinion about Man of Steel, he DID just save Metropolis, and the world. (Man of Steel is one of my two favorite Superman movies.)

BvS looked like it was going to go in really interesting directions and then it just devolved into garbage. But good grief, those opening scenes with Bruce Wayne in Metropolis during the attack are heartbreaking.

 

[The Realist]

Not a fan of the Cavill Superman personally, but I don't see how any of the above is relevant to my point? Which was, we never got to see that Superman at his peak, going instead straight from "first day on the job" to "everybody hates me," with his heroic heyday left as a between-films implication.

 

[Tallguy]

Not a fan of the Cavill Superman personally, but I don't see how any of the above is relevant to my point? Which was, we never got to see that Superman at his peak, going instead straight from "first day on the job" to "everybody hates me," with his heroic heyday left as a between-films implication.

I'm just saying you didn't miss "the golden era" between films. The beginning of BvS was Superman's "Beatlemania". There are people literally worshiping him. (Part of Jonathan's fears that the world finding out about Clark would be seriously distorting.) He's not even close to being past being beloved, there are just people who are very suspicious of that love. (Some with better reasons than others.) It's really still him being the new guy. And then they killed him because DC wanted an MCU and they wanted it NOW.

As opposed to Craig's Bond: We never get to see him being the best agent in the service. He's the untrusted new guy in one movie and ready to be put out to pasture in the next. I suppose the opening scene in Skyfall on the train is it.

Mind you, M exasperatedly trying to reign in Bond in the first two films is one of the highlights. ("Oh my God, he's killed him." I don't even remember the context of this line, I just vividly remember the delivery.)

 

[Captaindemotion]

I observed a while back that movies never seem to want to show heroes in their prime anymore. What you just observed about the Craig Bonds was one example. The Kelvinverse Star Trek movies followed an almost identical pattern: Kirk was a tyro in the first two films, then suddenly weary and burned out on space travel by the third. Henry Cavill's initially inexperienced Superman apparently became a beloved hero sometime between Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, but we never get to see it, only when the world turns against him and everything goes to shit.

I miss the days of Superman '78 and the classic Bonds when we weren't so reluctant to let heroes just be cool and awesome, instead of novices or balls of angst.

Yeah, I was thinking also of the Nolan Batmovies - beginner as per the title of the first one, I think he’s about a year or two into his career in TDK but TDKR jumps ahead 8 years, by which time he’s retired and injured.

The Batman also started off with a relatively novice Batman but the sequel has been pushed back to 2027, 5 & 1/2 years after the original. R-Patz will be by then 41, older than Michael Keaton was in Batman and the same age he was in Returns, older than Kilmer in Forever, Clooney in Batman & Robin, older than Bale in any of his films and only 3 years younger than Affleck’s older grizzled Batman from Batman v Superman.

Admittedly Pattinson remains youthful looking and The Penguin picked up weeks after The Batman, despite being released 2.5 years after. So they may well ignore the passage of time in-universe. But there definitely seems to be a trend to age up heroes.

Ironically, I think I read that there was some pushback to casting RDJ as Iron Man because they thought he was too old to spearhead a franchise with legs.

 

[The Realist]

I'm just saying you didn't miss "the golden era" between films. The beginning of BvS was Superman's "Beatlemania". There are people literally worshiping him. (Part of Jonathan's fears that the world finding out about Clark would be seriously distorting.) He's not even close to being past being beloved, there are just people who are very suspicious of that love. (Some with better reasons than others.) It's really still him being the new guy. And then they killed him because DC wanted an MCU and they wanted it NOW.

If you say so. Fans of those films seem to see different things in them than the rest of us do.

 

[Starkers]

I guess making a character particularly young or old offers additional opportunity for drama. Either you're not quite sure what you're doing, or you've lost a step (to quote Mallory in Skyfall).

I have no objection to either approach but it would be good to have a Bond who's just Bond, an experienced agent dropped into a mission (preferably one that doesn't involve a villain with a personal connection to him and doesn't necessitate having seen the previous film to know what's going on)

 

[The Realist]

but it would be good to have a Bond who's just Bond, an experienced agent dropped into a mission (preferably one that doesn't involve a villain with a personal connection to him and doesn't necessitate having seen the previous film to know what's going on)

Christ, yes.

 

[Tallguy]

but it would be good to have a Bond who's just Bond, an experienced agent dropped into a mission (preferably one that doesn't involve a villain with a personal connection to him and doesn't necessitate having seen the previous film to know what's going on)

And if it's not a villain who was actually created BY the good guys themselves (who are really, if we're honest, the ACTUAL bad guys, right? ) then that would be nice too.

That's really a Mission: Impossible go-to move, but it's also Skyfall.

 

[HIjol]

Fanwank???...

Rising British star gives crushing update after being tipped for James Bond

The Netflix heartthrob has seemingly bowed out of the race.

metro.co.uk

 

[Captaindemotion]

And if it's not a villain who was actually created BY the good guys themselves (who are really, if we're honest, the ACTUAL bad guys, right? ) then that would be nice too.

That's really a Mission: Impossible go-to move, but it's also Skyfall.

And Goldeneye.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Were there any people that Bond led to their death or caused their death that you think maybe didn't deserve that?

I'm thinking Corrinne Dufour from Moonraker, she was just a humble PA to Drax who didn't do anything bad but because of Bond she met a gruesome fate.

 

[HIjol]

Jaws?
He was a good soul, and was redeemed by Dolly!



But, in the Novelization:

"In the novelisation of The Spy Who Loved Me, Jaws remains attached to the magnet that Bond dips into the tank and is killed, whereas in the film Bond uses it to drop Jaws into the water. "Now both hands were tearing at the magnet, and Jaws twisted furiously like a fish on the hook. As Bond watched in fascinated horror, a relentless triangle streaked up behind the stricken giant. A huge grey force launched itself through the wild water, and two rows of white teeth closed around the threshing flesh."

Source: Wood, Christopher (1977). James Bond, The Spy Who Loved Me. Warner Books.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Jaws?
He was a good soul, and was redeemed by Dolly!

View attachment 44664

But, in the Novelization:

"In the novelisation of The Spy Who Loved Me, Jaws remains attached to the magnet that Bond dips into the tank and is killed, whereas in the film Bond uses it to drop Jaws into the water. "Now both hands were tearing at the magnet, and Jaws twisted furiously like a fish on the hook. As Bond watched in fascinated horror, a relentless triangle streaked up behind the stricken giant. A huge grey force launched itself through the wild water, and two rows of white teeth closed around the threshing flesh."

Source: Wood, Christopher (1977). James Bond, The Spy Who Loved Me. Warner Books.

MI6 should have recruited him

 

[jaime]

OK, MGM / EON - Here are your patterns. Mix to taste.

From Russia With Love - Gritty, more realistic, but still globe-trotting espionage Bond. Especially if you're going to do Retro Bond.
Thunderball - Everything and the Kitchen Sink Bond. This is as over the top and as quippy as you should go. This is your red line.
Goldeneye - This is a nearly perfect movie. Study it.

You think it's a good idea but it isn't:
Goldfinger: I don't trust you with this. You couldn't figure out what was good and what was bad the LAST time you made followups. No. Put it down. Step away. (Also, IIRC, this was really the only Bond girl with a dirty name in the books. This was not a Fleming trope. Stop it.)

You will be tempted by The Spy Who Loved Me / Moonraker. You can't handle it. (You Only Live Twice is right out.)

Vesper Lynd translates as either a light meal that is tender hearted, or a prayer for the same. It’s not so much ‘dirty names’ as double meanings. Bad puns are a tradition in Bond by now xD

 

[Tallguy]

MI6 should have recruited him

The bad guy in Skyfall should have been a disillusioned Jaws!

Vesper Lynd translates as either a light meal that is tender hearted, or a prayer for the same. It’s not so much ‘dirty names’ as double meanings. Bad puns are a tradition in Bond by now xD

Sure. But a cursory viewing of the Austin Powers movies will tell you that the perception is not simply "puns".

I'm thinking Corrinne Dufour from Moonraker, she was just a humble PA to Drax who didn't do anything bad but because of Bond she met a gruesome fate.

Following in the Jill Masterson tradition.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Fanwank???...

Rising British star gives crushing update after being tipped for James Bond

The Netflix heartthrob has seemingly bowed out of the race.

metro.co.uk

“Crushing.” I just love the hyperbolic headlines in new media.

 

[Tallguy]

“Crushing.” I just love the hyperbolic headlines in new media.

Could have been "piercing".

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[DarrenTR1970]

Speaking of novelizations - does anyone have any opinions on the post-Fleming Bond novels?
The only one I ever read all the way through was Colonel Sun and I thought it did a good job of capturing Fleming's tone/style and it felt like a proper James Bond novel.
I tried getting into John Gardner, but it felt too 'eighties', if that's a good way of putting it.

 

[Tallguy]

I read one of the Raymond Benson novels (High Time to Kill). It was OK. I didn't believe for a moment that Bond would play Callaways, certainly not that he would be excited about them. Too main stream, IMHO.