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The Indy Reboot is coming after 5

People can keep making up concepts surrounding and associated with what the word "reboot" means in a narrative context, but it doesn't change the fact that something is only a reboot, narratively, if it "throws the baby out with the bathwater".
I've seen you repeat this a few times in other threads but it really isn't true. That may be how you prefer to use it, and that may be based on this being one of the most common usages as you understand it, but different people have always used that word in various ways. Anytime a series picks up again after a long period of inactivity, this could be described as kind of reboot, even if elements of continuity are kept with previous installments. Sorry that you don't like this usage but it exists and it's not going to stop just because you don't like it. It doesn't just mean remake. (And even some films that are described as "remakes" have made some reference or acknowledgement of their predecessors.) Of course, what you describe is a kind of reboot too, more specifically a "hard reboot" or a "total reboot."
 
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It's not about how I want to define the term 'reboot'; it's about how the term is actually defined. People can't just decide that there are different definitions for what a reboot is in a narrative context any more than they could suddenly decide that the word "adaptation" no longer means "to change".

Regardless of how many times people try to redefine the term, "reboot" means "to start over from scratch with a brand-new continuity". Period.
 
I still think I'd rather see the series continue with Indy's kid, either a recast Mutt, whose real name is Indiana Jones Jr, or even a new student of Indiana Jones. That way we can keep Ford around as he gets to old to do much more than just sit in a chair and talk, and still have all of the big action sequences.
 
I still think I'd rather see the series continue with Indy's kid, either a recast Mutt, whose real name is Indiana Jones Jr, or even a new student of Indiana Jones. That way we can keep Ford around as he gets to old to do much more than just sit in a chair and talk, and still have all of the big action sequences.
They could bring back Short Round to bring in the Chinese audience.
 
Not a bad idea, although this time they'd probably want to give him a real name.
 
It's not about how I want to define the term 'reboot'; it's about how the term is actually defined. People can't just decide that there are different definitions for what a reboot is in a narrative context any more than they could suddenly decide that the word "adaptation" no longer means "to change".

Regardless of how many times people try to redefine the term, "reboot" means "to start over from scratch with a brand-new continuity". Period.
It is defined by the way people use it, as all words ultimately are. And no one "just decided" to "redefine" it; it has accumulated whatever definition(s) it has in this context over time. I'm not going to go find sources to prove to you what is self-evident, but the term has never been consistently used to mean only what you're describing. That is the fact of the matter whatever your opinion about it is. Before people started using it in reference to fiction, it simply referred to restarting a computer. It acquired further meaning through people likening what was being done in fiction to this process. When you restart your computer, do you necessarily lose all your files so you can't continue working where you left off? Nope.

In fictional terms, you can have a partial or "soft" reboot where certain elements of continuity are carried over but others are discarded or heavily altered. Batman Forever is such a reboot, where the only elements of continuity carried over from the preceding Burton films are Michael Gough as Alfred and Pat Hingle as Comissioner Gordon. And would you seriously try to argue that Abrams' Star Trek is not a reboot because it shares everything up to the point where the timeline diverges with the previous continuity, and the character of Spock from that continuity still persists as we know him in it? Think about what you're suggesting. It's ridiculous. Period.
 
It is defined by the way people use it, as all words ultimately are. And no one "just decided" to "redefine" it; it has accumulated whatever definition(s) it has in this context over time. I'm not going to go find sources to prove to you what is self-evident, but the term has never been consistently used to mean only what you're describing. That is the fact of the matter whatever your opinion about it is. Before people started using it in reference to fiction, it simply referred to restarting a computer. It acquired further meaning through people likening what was being done in fiction to this process. When you restart your computer, do you necessarily lose all your files so you can't continue working where you left off? Nope.

In fictional terms, you can have a partial or "soft" reboot where certain elements of continuity are carried over but others are discarded or heavily altered. Batman Forever is such a reboot, where the only elements of continuity carried over from the preceding Burton films are Michael Gough as Alfred and Pat Hingle as Comissioner Gordon. And would you seriously try to argue that Abrams' Star Trek is not a reboot because it shares everything up to the point where the timeline diverges with the previous continuity, and the character of Spock from that continuity still persists as we know him in it? Think about what you're suggesting. It's ridiculous. Period.

:brickwall: :thumbdown: :shrug:

I literally don't know what else to say.
 
It's not about how I want to define the term 'reboot'; it's about how the term is actually defined. People can't just decide that there are different definitions for what a reboot is in a narrative context any more than they could suddenly decide that the word "adaptation" no longer means "to change".

Regardless of how many times people try to redefine the term, "reboot" means "to start over from scratch with a brand-new continuity". Period.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=adapt&allowed_in_frame=0

Adapt used to mean 'to fit'. People changing definitions over time (often subconsciously) is exactly how language works (and always has worked).
 
I first heard the term 'reboot' in a film context in association with Batman Begins. It was later used for Casino Royale. DigificWriter is correct to the extent that both of these films were starting their respective series from scratch and ignoring previous versions of their characters.

However, the word soon began to be associated with pretty much any new take on a previously defunct show or film franchise. I've seen it used in respect of Doctor Who, the X-Files, 24 or Prison Break, all of which are basically sequels or continuations of the older versions, not new beginnings like BB or CR.

The word is basically a recent invention in a film context, albeit one which seems to have caught on better than the short-lived 're-imagining' which was briefly a buzzword after Burton's Planet of The Apes. I personally agree that it makes more sense in the context of a whole new take on a property but the bottom line is that it's now pretty much interchangeable with the word 'revival.' People use it to mean whatever they want it to mean.
 
i was about to post this on the Ghostbusters thread.... but I was gonna use te term "Property Renewal" for anything that uses a previous creative work into a new work. That covers the gamut, from a continuation (like The Force Awakens) to an alternate timeline (like nu Star Trek) to just doing it over and unconnected to previous works (like Amazing Spiderman) or whether it some way honors the past or not (i.e. the Flash TV show vs. Amazing Spiderman)

No judgment on whether it's a good idea or bad idea (that's what the thread is for! :drool: )
 
The term 'reboot' being defined as something that discards all previous continuity and starts over from scratch existed long before 2005, with 1985's Crisis on Infinite Earths being the first instance I can think of off the top of my head.
 
I was under the impression that the labeling of Star Trek '09 as a reboot (even though it's intrinsically tied to the Prime Universe movies) had originated with Orci, Kurtzman, and Abrams, so it's interesting to me that Orci in fact refuted that notion.

It's always baffled me that this whole 'what is a reboot' debate is even a thing because, as that article points out and as Orci rightly clarifies, the answer really isn't that complicated.

If something has any connection(s) whatsoever, however small or large they may be, to a pre-existing narrative construct, it is not a reboot, even if it is an attempt to restart a dormant franchise.

Examples of things that have restarted a franchise but are not actually reboots (even if they're mistakenly labeled as being reboots) would be Star Trek '09, Jurassic World, Independence Day Resurgence, the 2007 CGI TMNT movie, Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire Trilogy, and the "First Class" X-Men Trilogy (X-Men First Class, X-Men Days of Future Past, and X-Men Apocalypse).

Examples of actual franchise reboots would be The Amazing Spider-Man, Batman Begins, Crisis on Infinite Earths, The New 52, the new Hawaii 5-0 (which is both a reimagining AND a reboot), the new BSG (which, again, is both a reimagining and a reboot), Marvel's The Incredible Hulk, and Voltron Legendary Defender (which, again, is both a reimagining and a reboot).
 
And would you seriously try to argue that Abrams' Star Trek is not a reboot because it shares everything up to the point where the timeline diverges with the previous continuity, and the character of Spock from that continuity still persists as we know him in it?

Yes. It's not a reboot, no matter how many times people claim that it is. From Spock's POV it's a sequel. Actual reboots don't feature characters who lived through the previous continuity.
 
The term 'reboot' being defined as something that discards all previous continuity and starts over from scratch existed long before 2005, with 1985's Crisis on Infinite Earths being the first instance I can think of off the top of my head.
Funny that you should choose this as your example for contrast with Star Trek (2009) because they both follow exactly the same pattern: Crisis revolves around an in-universe event as a device to facilitate and explain why the changes to continuity have occurred—just like Nero's time travel—and at its conclusion Psycho-Pirate remembers everything that has happened—just like Spock Prime.

But it's a mistake (one to which I generally note Trekkies are particularly prone among fanbases) to look at it from an in-universe perspective instead of a real-world one anyway. It doesn't really matter whether the fiction internally acknowledges that it has been rebooted. What matters is what the external effect is for the moviegoing public. For all the direct references Jurassic World or The Force Awakens make to their antecedents, they are fundamentally designed to be new entrance points for people who are entirely unfamiliar with them, and jumping-off platforms for new takes on these properties. (How "new" these takes truly are beyond a surface level...err, that's debateable.)

The essential characteristic of a reboot is not the absolute severing of all ties of continuity, but rather it is the revival of something from an inactive state, with the definite connotation of there being some substantial changes in creative vision from the previous iteration. But this doesn't preclude maintaining certain elements as well, and it doesn't necessitate that the changes not be acknowledged in any way within the fiction. Again, when you reboot your computer you will lose any unsaved changes to documents, but it is your choice as to what you save or don't save before restarting. Rebooting a franchise similarly allows filmmakers the liberty to choose what they will keep and what they will discard. It in no way requires that they choose to discard everything. Being a remake, a reboot, a sequel, a prequel, etc., are not mutually exclusive of one another. The Thing (2011) is all them, for example. (It also wasn't very good, IMO, but that's beside the point.)

I first heard the term 'reboot' in a film context in association with Batman Begins. It was later used for Casino Royale. DigificWriter is correct to the extent that both of these films were starting their respective series from scratch and ignoring previous versions of their characters.
I know you're not on the reality-denying side of this, but since you bring up Casino Royale (2006), I'll point out that while it does not follow the preceding films' continuity storywise—which by the way they in turn only very selectively did with respect to their predecessors in the first place; in effect, the series was substantially rebooted every time a new Bond was castit includes the character of M as played by Judi Dench carried over to give the audience a familiar bridge or anchor from the previous films. The fact that the events of those prior movies don't seem to have happened from the characters' in-story point of view is, again, irrelevant. We the audience know who she is because we've seen her before. This doesn't stop it from being a reboot, nor even rather on the "hard" side of that spectrum.

The word is basically a recent invention in a film context, albeit one which seems to have caught on better than the short-lived 're-imagining' which was briefly a buzzword after Burton's Planet of The Apes. I personally agree that it makes more sense in the context of a whole new take on a property but the bottom line is that it's now pretty much interchangeable with the word 'revival.' People use it to mean whatever they want it to mean.
Exactly. There is no "official" definition of it as established by some "authority" and never has been. It's a neologism that is still in flux, with each commentator applying his or her own parameters to what it means, but in aggregate it is settling on a broader rather than narrower interpretation such as @DigificWriter's. (And to be clear, he or she is of course free to define it for him/herself as desired, and use it accordingly, but no one else is obligated to follow suit, and his/her definition is no more "correct" and no less subjective than anyone else's.) And when this sense of the word eventually does make it into published dictionaries, its definition will be based on that general usage, because that's what lexicographers do: they document how language is used, not decide how it ought be.

I was under the impression that the labeling of Star Trek '09 as a reboot (even though it's intrinsically tied to the Prime Universe movies) had originated with Orci, Kurtzman, and Abrams, so it's interesting to me that Orci in fact refuted that notion.

It's always baffled me that this whole 'what is a reboot' debate is even a thing because, as that article points out and as Orci rightly clarifies, the answer really isn't that complicated.
Orci said in context of ST'09 that he preferred the terms "re-invigoration" or "re-vitalization," just as Burton in context of Planet Of The Apes (2001) said he preferred "re-imagining," and both of them expressed that their reasons for these preferences were to avoid what they perceived as a pejorative connotation to "reboot" or "remake"; but obviously none of these self-applied terms ever caught on and crossed over into general usage. And what baffles me is not only that in your mind invoking such terms is somehow less complicated than just using "reboot" ("hard" or "soft" to be specified when necessary) but that you seem to think one person's specific coinage somehow outweighs general usage. What on earth makes you think Orci in 2009 gets to define what "reboot" does or doesn't mean for anyone but himself, let alone for all of us in 2016?

As for what is or isn't "a thing": a soft reboot is quite clearly a thing, as evidenced by the fact that numerous commentators have been talking about them for at least a couple of years now:
http://www.slashfilm.com/pirates-of-the-caribbean-reboot/
http://observationdeck.kinja.com/what-movies-and-shows-count-as-soft-reboots-1612103466
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/soft-reboots/247403/the-highs-and-lows-of-the-soft-movie-reboot
http://studybreaks.com/2015/10/15/reboot-reuse-recycle-the-rise-of-the-reboot/
http://screenrant.com/movie-franchise-soft-reboot-continuation-discussion/
https://www.inverse.com/article/963...sic-world-2015-is-the-year-of-the-soft-reboot
https://neverfeltbetter.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/serenity-those-left-behind-as-a-soft-reboot/
http://iwatchstuff.com/2016/01/chronicles-of-narnia-will-get-a-soft-reb.php

You can refuse to acknowledge this reality if you like, but it's quite a silly and petty thing to do, especially when it comes to the arena of discussing entertainment. We're not talking about whether global warming or climate change—whichever you prefer to call it—is happening, or whether the sum of the quantities we call "two" and "three" equals the one we call "five" here, after all. We're not even discussing whether it's better to call the Orlando shooting an example of "Islamic terrorism" or not. There is literally (take that as you will) no harm that can come of anyone using the term "reboot" to mean something beyond what you think they should. There is nothing to be gained by prescriptivism (or proscriptivism) in this context.

Yeah, yeah, I know...TLDR. Back to Indiana Jones...

So let me get this straight - they're bothering to make a 5th Indy movie, AND with the full knowledge they will eventually reboot and start the whole thing over again? What exactly is the point of that? :confused:
Perhaps to avoid people complaining that we could have gotten another film with Harrison Ford playing the character but didn't because they were too eager to start afresh with someone young and sexy? (Not that Ford isn't still the latter, naturally.) Also, as others have said, it seems a likely scenario that Ford's story might be used in one way or another to set up what will follow.
 
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Funny that you should choose this as your example for contrast with Star Trek (2009) because they both follow exactly the same pattern: Crisis revolves around an in-universe event as a device to facilitate and explain why the changes to continuity have occurred—just like Nero's time travel—and at its conclusion Psycho-Pirate remembers everything that has happened—just like Spock Prime.

But it's a mistake (one to which I generally note Trekkies are particularly prone among fanbases) to look at it from an in-universe perspective instead of a real-world one anyway. It doesn't really matter whether the fiction internally acknowledges that it has been rebooted. What matters is what the external effect is for the moviegoing public. For all the direct references Jurassic World or The Force Awakens make to their antecedents, they are fundamentally designed to be new entrance points for people who are entirely unfamiliar with them, and jumping-off platforms for new takes on these properties. (How "new" these takes truly are beyond a surface level...err, that's debateable.)

The essential characteristic of a reboot is not the absolute severing of all ties of continuity, but rather it is the revival of something from an inactive state, with the definite connotation of there being some substantial changes in creative vision from the previous iteration. But this doesn't preclude maintaining certain elements as well, and it doesn't necessitate that the changes not be acknowledged in any way within the fiction. Again, when you reboot your computer you will lose any unsaved changes to documents, but it is your choice as to what you save or don't save before restarting. Rebooting a franchise similarly allows filmmakers the liberty to choose what they will keep and what they will discard. It in no way requires that they choose to discard everything. Being a remake, a reboot, a sequel, a prequel, etc., are not mutually exclusive of one another. The Thing (2011) is all them, for example. (It also wasn't very good, IMO, but that's beside the point.)


I know you're not on the reality-denying side of this, but since you bring up Casino Royale (2006), I'll point out that while it does not follow the preceding films' continuity storywise—which by the way they in turn only very selectively did with respect to their predecessors in the first place; in effect, the series was substantially rebooted every time a new Bond was castit includes the character of M as played by Judi Dench carried over to give the audience a familiar bridge or anchor from the previous films. The fact that the events of those prior movies don't seem to have happened from the characters' in-story point of view is, again, irrelevant. We the audience know who she is because we've seen her before. This doesn't stop it from being a reboot, nor even rather on the "hard" side of that spectrum.


Exactly. There is no "official" definition of it as established by some "authority" and never has been. It's a neologism that is still in flux, with each commentator applying his or her own parameters to what it means, but in aggregate it is settling on a broader rather than narrower interpretation such as @DigificWriter's. (And to be clear, he or she is of course free to define it for him/herself as desired, and use it accordingly, but no one else is obligated to follow suit, and his/her definition is no more "correct" and no less subjective than anyone else's.) And when this sense of the word eventually does make it into published dictionaries, its definition will be based on that general usage, because that's what lexicographers do: they document how language is used, not decide how it ought be.


Orci said in context of ST'09 that he preferred the terms "re-invigoration" or "re-vitalization," just as Burton in context of Planet Of The Apes (2001) said he preferred "re-imagining," and both of them expressed that their reasons for these preferences were to avoid what they perceived as a pejorative connotation to "reboot" or "remake"; but obviously none of these self-applied terms ever caught on and crossed over into general usage. And what baffles me is not only that in your mind invoking such terms is somehow less complicated than just using "reboot" ("hard" or "soft" to be specified when necessary) but that you seem to think one person's specific coinage somehow outweighs general usage. What on earth makes you think Orci in 2009 gets to define what "reboot" does or doesn't mean for anyone but himself, let alone for all of us in 2016?

As for what is or isn't "a thing": a soft reboot is quite clearly a thing, as evidenced by the fact that numerous commentators have been talking about them for at least a couple of years now:
http://www.slashfilm.com/pirates-of-the-caribbean-reboot/
http://observationdeck.kinja.com/what-movies-and-shows-count-as-soft-reboots-1612103466
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/soft-reboots/247403/the-highs-and-lows-of-the-soft-movie-reboot
http://studybreaks.com/2015/10/15/reboot-reuse-recycle-the-rise-of-the-reboot/
http://screenrant.com/movie-franchise-soft-reboot-continuation-discussion/
https://www.inverse.com/article/963...sic-world-2015-is-the-year-of-the-soft-reboot
https://neverfeltbetter.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/serenity-those-left-behind-as-a-soft-reboot/
http://iwatchstuff.com/2016/01/chronicles-of-narnia-will-get-a-soft-reb.php

You can refuse to acknowledge this reality if you like, but it's quite a silly and petty thing to do, especially when it comes to the arena of discussing entertainment. We're not talking about whether global warming or climate change—whichever you prefer to call it—is happening, or whether the sum of the quantities we call "two" and "three" equals the one we call "five" here, after all. We're not even discussing whether it's better to call the Orlando shooting an example of "Islamic terrorism" or not. There is literally (take that as you will) no harm that can come of anyone using the term "reboot" to mean something beyond what you think they should. There is nothing to be gained by prescriptivism (or proscriptivism) in this context.

Yeah, yeah, I know...TLDR. Back to Indiana Jones...


Perhaps to avoid people complaining that we could have gotten another film with Harrison Ford playing the character but didn't because they were too eager to start afresh with someone young and sexy? (Not that Ford isn't still the latter, naturally.) Also, as others have said, it seems a likely scenario that Ford's story might be used in one way or another to set up what will follow.

This post is so full of nonsense that the only response I can muster is to quote Inigo Montoya directly:
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
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