A smaller normal matter world surrounded by a higher mass mirror matter planet that only weakly interacts with things and isn’t even visible—-and gives assassins nice places to hide—might be the better fit. The normal matter atmosphere is where the mirror matter mantle is…or something. You just wouldn’t see it.
The Impossible Planet
- Thread starter MAGolding
- Start date
So the problem for people who want to interpret the Kalandan Outpost Planet (or K.O.P.) as having as much matter in as small a volume as Kirk and Spock say, is that it would have an average density of 271.602549 grams per cubic centimeter.
And that would be far denser than any known material in conditions familiar to us. Of course, under conditions of extreme pressure, like in the cores of large planets and in the cores of massive stars, or the cores of white dwarfs, or the coares of neutron stars, or within the event horizons of black holes, ordinary matter can be compressed to much greater densities than 271.602549 grams per cubic centimeter.
But such compression is a result of the weight of material higher up pressing down on material lower down, due to the gravitational interaction of all the matter within that astronomical object. If all the matter higher up is removed, the compressed matter would tend to decompress - possibly quite explosively. So the K.O.P. could not be built of such dense materials if it had merely the size of the Moon and merely the mass of Earth. It it was created in an instant by magic, its gravity would not be strong enough to keep it from decompressing rapidly.
The only form of normal but highly compressed matter that would not decompress would be matter within a black hole's event horizon. So one theoretical model for the K.O.P. would be world with the volume, mass, and density of Earth's Moon, with a tiny black hole with the mass of the Earthin side the Moon like object. One could hope that the Kalandans calculated that such a K.O.P. would last long enough for their unspecified purposes.
But there may be other and more exotic forms of matter. The last time I checked there many theoretical particles in particle physics, some of them confirmed by experiments. And atoms of matter could theoretically be built out of many of those exotic particles.
For example, there is antimatter, consisting of antiparticles otherwise similar to normal matter. Three is a possbility that antimatter might have reverse gravity, repelling other antimatter and normal matter. That would not help building a dense world. But it is considered almost certain that anti partiles have gravitational attraction to other antiparticles and normal matter. But that would not help in constructing a superdense world since the anti particles and normal particles which were pulled into contact with each other by their gravity would annihilate each other.
Mirror matter, also called shadow matter, and Alice Matter, is a hypothetical courterpart of ordinary matter. Most of the interactions of mirror matter, if it exists, with ordinary matter would be through gravitational interaction. So if there is a lot of mirror matter in the universe, it might be possible in Star Trek to cptpure and contain it using tractor beams and force shields if that they gravitationally based.
Thus a civilization might fill a world with a specific radius, volume, mass, and density or ordinary matter with a equal mass of mirror matter which woiuld fill the volume of the world and not interact with the ordinary matter except through gravity. So the mirror matter and the ordinary matter wouldn't exert any pressure on each other to fight against the doubled density. But the mirror matter might interact with other mirror matter through the atomic and electromagnetic forces mediated by mirror bosuns. In that case mirror matter oculd only be condensed as much as ordinary matter by gravity.
In that case tens or hundreds of different types of mirror matter would be needed to achieve the desnity of the K.O.P. . Each form of mirror matter could interact with ordinary matter and other forms of mirror matter by gravity, but couldn't interat with them via the electromagnetic and nuclear forces. And that could result in achieving the required density of the K.O.P. using ordinary matter and many different forms of mirror matter. What would be needed would be a physical theory reqiuring many different forms of mirror matter.
And there is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter
So maybe it might possibly be possible to create mirror particles many times more massive than their ordinary counterparts, massive enough to make the density of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter possible.
Exotic atmos are atomswher eone or more particles has been replaced by a different particle which has the same charge. Since the replace particles usually decay very fast, exotic atoms, whatever their mass, do not seem like constructin material.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_atom
And then there is dark mattter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter
Many different types of elementary particles have been proposed as constituting some or all of dark matter.
It is not believed that dark matter can form atoms and molecules and large objects. But I think that if a bunch of dark matter particles are close enough together, and have velcoties lower than the escape velocity of the bunch, they will stick together through their mutual gravity. So I suppose that if tractor beams and some types of force shields use gravity they can be used to gather a mass of dark matter particles into a small enough volume that they will be gravitationally gound to each other.
So possibly the K.O.P. could have been formed out of a relatively small mass of ordinary matter and an Earth sized mass of dark matter.
Thus constructing a world with the required density of the K.O.P. might seem a little bit more plausible, if the Kalandans could construct it out of a form of exotic matter with the right properties.
And I for one pe prefer to imagine that the K.O.P. was probably larger and less massive than Kirk and Spock said, and thus had a much more plausible density and could have been built out of more ordinary materials.
And that would be far denser than any known material in conditions familiar to us. Of course, under conditions of extreme pressure, like in the cores of large planets and in the cores of massive stars, or the cores of white dwarfs, or the coares of neutron stars, or within the event horizons of black holes, ordinary matter can be compressed to much greater densities than 271.602549 grams per cubic centimeter.
But such compression is a result of the weight of material higher up pressing down on material lower down, due to the gravitational interaction of all the matter within that astronomical object. If all the matter higher up is removed, the compressed matter would tend to decompress - possibly quite explosively. So the K.O.P. could not be built of such dense materials if it had merely the size of the Moon and merely the mass of Earth. It it was created in an instant by magic, its gravity would not be strong enough to keep it from decompressing rapidly.
The only form of normal but highly compressed matter that would not decompress would be matter within a black hole's event horizon. So one theoretical model for the K.O.P. would be world with the volume, mass, and density of Earth's Moon, with a tiny black hole with the mass of the Earthin side the Moon like object. One could hope that the Kalandans calculated that such a K.O.P. would last long enough for their unspecified purposes.
But there may be other and more exotic forms of matter. The last time I checked there many theoretical particles in particle physics, some of them confirmed by experiments. And atoms of matter could theoretically be built out of many of those exotic particles.
For example, there is antimatter, consisting of antiparticles otherwise similar to normal matter. Three is a possbility that antimatter might have reverse gravity, repelling other antimatter and normal matter. That would not help building a dense world. But it is considered almost certain that anti partiles have gravitational attraction to other antiparticles and normal matter. But that would not help in constructing a superdense world since the anti particles and normal particles which were pulled into contact with each other by their gravity would annihilate each other.
Mirror matter, also called shadow matter, and Alice Matter, is a hypothetical courterpart of ordinary matter. Most of the interactions of mirror matter, if it exists, with ordinary matter would be through gravitational interaction. So if there is a lot of mirror matter in the universe, it might be possible in Star Trek to cptpure and contain it using tractor beams and force shields if that they gravitationally based.
Thus a civilization might fill a world with a specific radius, volume, mass, and density or ordinary matter with a equal mass of mirror matter which woiuld fill the volume of the world and not interact with the ordinary matter except through gravity. So the mirror matter and the ordinary matter wouldn't exert any pressure on each other to fight against the doubled density. But the mirror matter might interact with other mirror matter through the atomic and electromagnetic forces mediated by mirror bosuns. In that case mirror matter oculd only be condensed as much as ordinary matter by gravity.
In that case tens or hundreds of different types of mirror matter would be needed to achieve the desnity of the K.O.P. . Each form of mirror matter could interact with ordinary matter and other forms of mirror matter by gravity, but couldn't interat with them via the electromagnetic and nuclear forces. And that could result in achieving the required density of the K.O.P. using ordinary matter and many different forms of mirror matter. What would be needed would be a physical theory reqiuring many different forms of mirror matter.
And there is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter
So maybe it might possibly be possible to create mirror particles many times more massive than their ordinary counterparts, massive enough to make the density of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter possible.
Exotic atmos are atomswher eone or more particles has been replaced by a different particle which has the same charge. Since the replace particles usually decay very fast, exotic atoms, whatever their mass, do not seem like constructin material.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_atom
And then there is dark mattter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter
Many different types of elementary particles have been proposed as constituting some or all of dark matter.
It is not believed that dark matter can form atoms and molecules and large objects. But I think that if a bunch of dark matter particles are close enough together, and have velcoties lower than the escape velocity of the bunch, they will stick together through their mutual gravity. So I suppose that if tractor beams and some types of force shields use gravity they can be used to gather a mass of dark matter particles into a small enough volume that they will be gravitationally gound to each other.
So possibly the K.O.P. could have been formed out of a relatively small mass of ordinary matter and an Earth sized mass of dark matter.
Thus constructing a world with the required density of the K.O.P. might seem a little bit more plausible, if the Kalandans could construct it out of a form of exotic matter with the right properties.
And I for one pe prefer to imagine that the K.O.P. was probably larger and less massive than Kirk and Spock said, and thus had a much more plausible density and could have been built out of more ordinary materials.
But if the sensors detected the total mass including the mirror matter, and and also detected the radius occupied by the mirror matter, Kir wouldn't say that the K.O.P. was about the Size of Earth's moon, he would say thatit was about the size of the Earth. So the dimensions and the mass of the planet would not seem contradictory.
If the sensors detected the total mass, including the invisible mirror matter, but only detected the radius of the normal matter core, the planet would seem impossibly massive and dense, as it is in the episode.
And that would require that the sensor[s coudld only detect mirror matter formits gravitational effect. Which is reasonable enough though rather limited compared to all the things which Star Trek sensors can sense. But if the sensors could sense mirror matter fromits gravity, which would seem to be the absolute minimum possible detecting, they should have been able to detect how the mass was distrubted in space, and thus see that the mass was distributed over a much larger volume than the volume of the visible planet, and they would know the palnet was surrounded by invisible and intangible matter and say so.
Modern science can detect the mass distrubutin within a planet, moon, or star, so Star Trek sensors should have been able to detect that the gravitating matter extended far beyond the visible matter.
And I don't know why you suggest that the mirror matter would make theK.O.P. a good hiding place. MIrror matter, if it exists, wouldn't interact with electromatnetic radiation. It wouldn't absorb light, it wouldn't emit light, and it wouldn't reflect light.
Mirror matter would be invisible, and so mirror matter around the K.O.P. would not hide anything on the surface
of the K.O.P. Didn't you ever read "The Emperor's New Clothes"?
When I ws a child, I read a Raggedy Ann book where there was a wall which was both invisible and also hid what was on the other side. And I spent some time wondering what that would look like and how it could be possible or even imaginable. And I suppose that it is remotely possible that there could be some way out theory in physics about a hypothetical form of matter that both could be invisible and hide what was behind it. But until someone points out such a theory to me I will say it is both scientifically and logically impossible for invisible matter to hide anything.
One good point of your suggestion would be that it would reduce the surface gravity a lot, and maybe make it comfortable for the landing party.
Since the normal matter of the K.O.P. would have about the size and mass of the Moon, teh landing party on the surface of the would feel about as much gravity from the normal matter as they would on Earth's moon, about 0.1654 g, which would make them walk like astronauts on the Moon, but more so without heavy space suits.
The mirror matter would be surrounding them from all directions. Up, down, right, left, forward, back. If they were in the exact center of the K.O.P. the gravitational pull from each direction would be cancelled by equal and opposite pull from the opposite direction, and they would feel weightless.
But since they stood on the surface of the normal matter part of the K.O.P., they would be about a thousand miles off center to one side. Thus there would be a stronger pull from the greater than one half below them than from the less than one half above them. So they would have some positive gravitational pull from the mirror matter added to the 0.1654 g produced by the normal matter. And possibly someone here could try to calculate what the weight could be.
What I was thinking in terms of doors “opening and closing” was actually a conversation from mirror to normal matter and back again. That’s how the surprise attacks happen.
And you could factor in different rates of rotation…maybe the normal matter herniated as a lobe, etc.
And you could factor in different rates of rotation…maybe the normal matter herniated as a lobe, etc.
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