I don't see an answer to my question.
EDITED for clarity, because there's apparently some confusion.
The gurgling sound of death!
- Thread starter Luminus
- Start date
I don't see an answer to my question.
EDITED for clarity, because there's apparently some confusion.
In all seriousness, you really don't see any scenario in which you would put the concerns or beliefs of others before your own?
Seriously, though, you have not answered the question. What's the problem?
Is it too much to ask of you, perhaps?
I asked you first. Answer the question; no dodging.
I already answered this earlier in the thread.
If I need to lie to save someone's life or job or to keep the peace in a potentially volatile situation, guess what? A lie might need to be told. But I'm not going to make a promise I can't keep nor lie to them just to make them feel better. That's not how I operate and anyone who knows me and expects me to operate differently than that is a fool.
Your turn.
That's not what I asked: I wasn't asking about some narrow, case-specific scenario. I am asking if you would ever, under any circumstances, put some one else's concerns or beliefs above your own. Do you see any scenario, even hypothetical, in which you will put someone else's beliefs or concerns above your own?
Please answer the question; no dodging.
Please answer the question; no dodging.
I've answered this as well:
I don't think I need to violate my beliefs to comfort anyone. I believe there's another way. This is all hypothetical, anyway. I've never been in any of these impossible scenarios nor do I ever expect to be, so there's no way to tell for sure how I would respond in the scenario. It's possible that I would break my own rules, but I still think that's wrong. Lying is wrong, regardless of the outcome. It goes back to the no excuses comment I made.
You're having fun with the "no dodging" thing, aren't you? As an addition to this, you need specifics to deal with this question properly. If someone asks me to wear something pink to a funeral and I believe pink is for women, I'll wear a pink shirt for the funeral. This is a case of me breaking a belief for the sake of someone else. This will not be the case for all beliefs and no one should expect it of me. Now, I've answer your question quite clearly and in great detail.
Again, your turn.
If you want to talk specifics, then find one, just one, in which you would put the beliefs of others above your own. Otherwise:
Sounds like the epitome of selfishness to me. You've buried the Yuk-O-Meter needle with that one.
Should the religious person do this? No, I wouldn't expect the religious person to do this. Could the religious person do this, and yet still have complete and utter faith in their God? Absolutely. Would I understand and appreciate the effort the religious person made to comfort you, in your time of need? Absolutely.Luminus said:
So, you wouldn't expect the religious person to do this and you don't move to judge them, but you judge me. See the hypocrisy? I'm selfish, but the religious person isn't.
And, no, I did not bury the Yuk-O-Meter. You've turned a bind eye repeatedly to me saying that I might change my mind if I was actually in the scenario. So, again, this whole thing is about judgement of me for having a different belief. Plain and simple.
I think it's more likely that a person who has no beliefs will be asked to pray for someone, say struck down by a car in the street, then that a religious person will be asked to renounce their beliefs. Just talking about an actual scenario that has probably happened many times. I would be appalled at the actions of a person who refused to do that for a stranger because they put their atheism above a dying person's need for comfort.
I was walking past the Hare Krishnas yesterday chanting in a busy street and if one of them got hit by a car and was in extreme distress and I was holding his hand and he begged me to say the Krishna chant with him OF COURSE I would do it, I would be glad to do it even though I think the Hare Krishnas are an unpleasant cult. I wouldn't be praying to Krishna, I would be caring for a human in doing it.
I was walking past the Hare Krishnas yesterday chanting in a busy street and if one of them got hit by a car and was in extreme distress and I was holding his hand and he begged me to say the Krishna chant with him OF COURSE I would do it, I would be glad to do it even though I think the Hare Krishnas are an unpleasant cult. I wouldn't be praying to Krishna, I would be caring for a human in doing it.
The point is we all have a line we won't cross unless absolutely necessary, and even then it might have to be seriously self-debated. There are scenarios in which you might not recite a prayer (empty words might have zero meaning to you, if tested). The content of the prayer might be unacceptable to you. It might be a devil worshiper that gets struck. A racist that wants you to say racist things just as a last f-u to the world. There are some sick people out there that will go to extremes to get you to violate your own ethics. You can't know what scenario you might end up in, so you can't say that no dying atheist would ever try to get a religious person to renounce their god.
I just learned that there's a scenario where a family is forced to watch the rape of their child, then the father is killed and the child kidnapped into an army in Africa. Some scenarios involve the child raping the mother. This is apparently a common thing that I no idea was even conceivable.
The truth is, you just don't know. This was a fun conversation. I hope you've all learned something. I have.
Happy New Year!
I learned that some people will sacrifice empathy for "THE TRUTH".
Generally speaking, I'm also not keen on placating people with well-meaning lies. But when you get down to specifics, I suppose I am more flexible than Luminus. I'd probably lie to make a kid or a dying person feel better if I didn't think any harm would come of it. As a rule, I don't like lying about anything, but few rules are so important that they must never be broken.
You'll never make captain with that attitude.
So, you won't tell a kid Santa is real either then?!?
And never tell them about the birds and the bees. Always be honest.
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