*~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

[neogothboy74]

Here's my latest J/C fiddle. Chakotay's pouting has made people giggle elsewhere so maybe it'll bring at least a faint smile on some of the faces here as well. Tee hee.

I collect fan art (though mostly the more 'adult' variety) and this is HOT. You rock. Do you have a site where you display your work?

 

[Tachyon]

Thanks neogothboy.

More of my fiddles can be found on my website.

 

[neogothboy74]

Thanks neogothboy.

More of my fiddles can be found on my website.

Anytime. I love fan art. I'll be sure to check out your site, and thanks for the link!

 

[Tachyon]

Any J/Cers who have already read Full Circle?

My book is still on its way here from the US, but I am looking forward to get it in my hands.

 

[Brit]

Ok Tachyon, you've gone and done it. Made plot bunnies jump around in my mind. I love the fiddle, that might go into my saved for later to be drawn pictures. You are really getting good at this.

Thanks
Brit

 

[kimc]

Any J/Cers who have already read Full Circle?

No and I'm not planning on it. This isn't part of some "boycott conspiracy" - it's just not high on my priority list right now. Perhaps someday if Janeway is back I'll catch up on the Voyager books.

 

[Tachyon]

Ok Tachyon, you've gone and done it. Made plot bunnies jump around in my mind. I love the fiddle, that might go into my saved for later to be drawn pictures. You are really getting good at this.

Thanks
Brit

Aww. Thanks Brit.

 

[Brit]

I thought I'd post the last picture I did. It's drawn using Prismacolor pencils.

http://www.jceternal.com/eloredraw031709post.jpg

I'm going to leave it as a link because the picture is pretty big on some computers.

Brit

 

[jmc247]

C/7 was a pathetic joke and I say that in the nicest possible way. It made Worf and Troi seem like a well written and well concieved pairing.

J/C and especially D/7 were relationships that had my interest and their relationships certainly worked for the characters.

 

[neogothboy74]

C/7 was a pathetic joke and I say that in the nicest possible way. J/C and especially D/7 were relationships that had my interest and their relationships certainly worked for the characters.

I liked J/C. A lot. I even liked J/7 before the mommy overtones went into overdrive. But I loathed C/7. As a fantasy holodeck thing I could forgive it - but the reality was icky. And while D/7 didn't disgust me...it never really felt right to me. 7 never felt like she was on the same level as the Doctor, to me. It felt unequal. The balance wasn't right, IMO. I understood and respected the Doctor's feelings - I think they nailed the emotional truth of that relationship, so I can see why it's popular, but I'm actually grateful that they didn't take that any further than they did on the series.

 

[Tachyon]

I'm with you neogothboy - D/7 wasn't really my cup of tea. I'm not against it, but I never really saw in there anything potential. Doc's feelings were cute and adorable, but personally I didn't see Seven ever returning his feelings.

But I take D/7 over C/7 any given day. C/7 was awful. One does not have to be J/Cer to see that (usually). Even Troi/Worf worked better and that was awful nd akward too.

 

[jmc247]

I'm with you neogothboy - D/7 wasn't really my cup of tea. I'm not against it, but I never really saw in there anything potential. Doc's feelings were cute and adorable, but personally I didn't see Seven ever returning his feelings.

But I take D/7 over C/7 any given day. C/7 was awful. One does not have to be J/Cer to see that (usually). Even Troi/Worf worked better and that was awful nd akward too.

D/7 was not about sex or 'romance'... it was about two beings finding a way to fit in and live together in a world of lesser beings that aren't enhanced by technology and don't have the hundreds of life times worth of knowledge inside them. Both of them are stronger, faster, and far smarter then any man, but that doesn't mean they can easy fit in with their fellow man. Their relationship was about mutual self discovery and figuring out how to fit in the new world they were thrust into.

The Doctor wasn't interested in her because he had a woodie like Chakotay... instead because he believed he found a kindred spirit on Voyager that like him has to deal with living among normal people. I believe Seven was very much starting to look at him the same way until mid season 7 when some writer got the idea to put C/7 together.

 

[Tachyon]

You chose your words well jmc247. I never paid much attention to the interaction of these two, or at leat the possible romantic aspect of it, but I do like how you explained your view about it.

 

[Brit]

D/7 was not about sex or 'romance'... it was about two beings finding a way to fit in and live together in a world of lesser beings that aren't enhanced by technology and don't have the hundreds of life times worth of knowledge inside them. Both of them are stronger, faster, and far smarter then any man, but that doesn't mean they can easy fit in with their fellow man. Their relationship was about mutual self discovery and figuring out how to fit in the new world they were thrust into.

I think you have a really good point here, although I would hesitate to say "better" or "lesser" but rather "different."

I'll go so far to say the a lot of the anti Seven sentiment stems not from the C/7 story line (although that certainly is a big factor) but rather from the scene very early in "Endgame" where Seven completely brushes off the Doctor, given that he had expressed his love for her in the immediately prior episode.

Brit

 

[jmc247]

I'll go so far to say the a lot of the anti Seven sentiment stems not from the C/7 story line (although that certainly is a big factor) but rather from the scene very early in "Endgame" where Seven completely brushes off the Doctor, given that he had expressed his love for her in the immediately prior episode.

Yes, I was unhappy with the way Seven completely brushed off the Doctor's feelings and yes at the time I was unhappy with her, but the whole thing felt so out of character for Seven and the C/7 relationship felt so forced that I over time I more and more ended up blaming the writer instead of the character... as it didn't feel like I was seeing the Seven I had come to know from watching the show. Instead it felt like I was watching a character that looked like Seven, but had her personality warped to fit a forced and very ill conceived last minute 'romance' so the writer could write the character 'more sexual'.

 

[Praetor]

I'll flat say it: the uncharacteristic way the C/7 'relationship' forced the characters to act towards the others with whom they had previous romantic shall we say 'entanglements' - the Doctor's feelings for Seven, Janeway and Chakotay's 'Moonlighting'-style romance - diminished both characters.

It made them both seem like jerks.

And I agree that D/7 was in some ways more interesting. The Doctor himself was very interesting to me because, as much as I liked him, I had a hard time empathizing with his 'holographic rights' shtick. He was sentient, yes, but he became a bit too... militant. But I digress.

 

[teya]

D/7 was not about sex or 'romance'... it was about two beings finding a way to fit in and live together in a world of lesser beings that aren't enhanced by technology and don't have the hundreds of life times worth of knowledge inside them. Both of them are stronger, faster, and far smarter then any man, but that doesn't mean they can easy fit in with their fellow man. Their relationship was about mutual self discovery and figuring out how to fit in the new world they were thrust into.

I think you have a really good point here, although I would hesitate to say "better" or "lesser" but rather "different."

I'll go so far to say the a lot of the anti Seven sentiment stems not from the C/7 story line (although that certainly is a big factor) but rather from the scene very early in "Endgame" where Seven completely brushes off the Doctor, given that he had expressed his love for her in the immediately prior episode.

Brit

So, what is a woman who isn't interested in a man supposed to do?

Seven made it clear on more than one occasion (starting with STWOM) that she wasn't interested in the Doctor as a romantic partner.

Having been there and done that, I'll say there's no nice way of turning a guy who just doesn't get it down.

 

[Praetor]

^That's a good point. The Doc's unrelenting pining also made him seem like a jerk.

We certainly saw how he chose to dress her when he had finished de-assimilating her. Conflict of interest, anyone?

 

[jmc247]

I'll flat say it: the uncharacteristic way the C/7 'relationship' forced the characters to act towards the others with whom they had previous romantic shall we say 'entanglements' - the Doctor's feelings for Seven, Janeway and Chakotay's 'Moonlighting'-style romance - diminished both characters.

It made them both seem like jerks.

There is a reason the novelists wrote it out the second they had the chance. Because, it would have been a cloud hanging over any future J/C, J/7, or D/7 interaction in the novels. The C/7 'relationship' as it was written badly hurt the interpersonal dynamics between four of core characters on the show. And, the novelists were right to fix that problem right off the bat.

If Voyager was given films like TNG franchise... C/7 would have died the same death in the films that Worf and Troi did... of that I have no doubt as the 'relationship' would have poisoned the D/7, J/7, and J/C interaction which were three of the four most important and popular interpersonal relationships in Voyager as a series.

 

[Tachyon]

I'll flat say it: the uncharacteristic way the C/7 'relationship' forced the characters to act towards the others with whom they had previous romantic shall we say 'entanglements' - the Doctor's feelings for Seven, Janeway and Chakotay's 'Moonlighting'-style romance - diminished both characters.

It made them both seem like jerks.

There is a reason the novelists wrote it out the second they had the chance. Because, it would have been a cloud hanging over any future J/C, J/7, or D/7 interaction in the novels. The C/7 'relationship' as it was written badly hurt the interpersonal dynamics between four of core characters on the show. And, the novelists were right to fix that problem right off the bat.

If Voyager was given films like TNG franchise... C/7 would have died the same death in the films that Worf and Troi did... of that I have no doubt as the 'relationship' would have poisoned the D/7, J/7, and J/C interaction which were three of the four most important and popular interpersonal relationships in Voyager as a series.

Well said so I fully agree with you.