*~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Tachyon, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^ Too true. :)
    The idea of them being together doesn't anger me or bother me a bit like it seems to for some people, but I'm still glad they didn't do it. Also think about how many shows got boring after they finally got two of the main characters together. Moonlighting comes to mind.

    I also feel like if they would have done the J/C thing you would have all of these people saying "oh sure, the 1st female captain and she's more worried about playing around with the 1st officer than getting them home.."

    Not that it would have been true, but it would have been another annoying thing for anti-Voyager people to constantly bring up.

    Luckily the pro J/C folks have fan fiction and their own imaginations to basically think up whatever they want to for J/C after their return to earth. This is one case where Voyager's abrupt ending actually works for someone!
     
  2. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Ah, yes, the Moonlighting Syndrome. I agree. I think some of the J/Cers underestimate how...well, boring the show would almost certainly have become if J and C had actually gotten together and stayed that way. If the writers gave such a monumental relationship the time it deserved, we wouldn't have had much time to explore the DQ - I mean, that was kind of the point of the show, right? -- and the other relationships on the show would have suffered too - kind of like what happened when the writers started spending so much time on the Janeway-Seven relationship.

    We wouldn't have had Voyager any more, IMO.

    And if they'd gotten together and then broken up...well, I don't think anybody would want that for Kathryn and Chakotay.

    So...yeah, J/Cers - I've come out of the closet. I think the show would have become tedious and boring if these two characters we all like had gotten together. Please try to forgive me for this heresy! ;)
     
  3. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As a J/Cer I fully acknowledge the risk of "Moonlighting Syndrome" with J/C as well. Making J/C happen on screen would have been risky move, because there was a possibility of it turning into something boring.

    However, there is one significant difference between J/C and David/Maggie.

    J/C was never the main thing of the show. The two of them were not the only ones onboard Voyager and the series was not just about the two of them cruising throught the Delta Quadrant. So there would have been other stories to be told (like there were without J/C) so in that sense the "Moonlighting Syndrome" would have not necessarily been an issue here. If written well, J/C could have provided interesting and nice sub-storylines in couple of episodes here and there.

    I also acknowledge the risk of double-standards when it comes to first female captain and her love life. Kirk was the casanova of the calaxy, Riker almost as much, to name a few. So there was a risk of Janeway dislikers to get some ammunitions to shot at her, if she had gotten down with her first officer. And if I have understood correctly, Mulgrew also had issues like this in her mind as she was against the J/C pairing.

    However, like I have already said on page x on this thread, I like tension more than resolved feelings. In addition, I am definitely a post-Endgame J/Cer (mainly). So J/C not getting together on the series was not the end of the world for me, though I would have absolutely LOVED to see more of them playing with the idea of getting together as well as writers giving us the original concept of Workforce where J/C would have gotten down and dirty on Quarra. From my perspective these two characters had an amazing chemistry and I would have loved to see something on the series where Janeway would have been placed in a position where she would have had to question her own motives and principles and thinking where she would draw the line between the good of her crew and her own needs. So I think J/C relationship, or the possibility of it, would have provided great character-centric stories for the Voyager saga.
     
  4. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

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    The producers allowed a certain amount of UST (unresolved sexual tension) to exist between Kathryn and Chakotay. Even as late as "Shattered" in the seventh season that existed.

    Now there is nothing wrong with using UST but once you start down that path you have to give a payoff to those viewers that recognized it. It doesn't have to come during the run of the series, and we all know that "Moonlighting's" payoff came to soon, actually so did the payoff for Sam and Diane come too soon in "Cheers".

    My point is once you start down that path you owe a payoff, and if you can't give one during the run of the series, you owe one at the series end, or at least at the end of both character's involvement of the series. A very good example would be the last scene of the CSI episode "One to Go" involving Grissom and Sara.

    Brit
     
  5. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    ^ Good writers generally like to resolve all the loose plot threads and the J/C chemistry was certainly one of them. The original "Workforce" idea would have been an opportunity to do that - one way or the other.

    Aside from that a neutral ending without the icky C/7 would have been the way to go.
     
  6. crohnie

    crohnie Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Ugh, late to the party as usual.
    Just found out about the original idea of Workforce. *begin whining here* I think I saw a few fic authors play off of that idea but I can't remember where or who now.

    Endgame - C/7 would definitely be more tolerable (might actually be good) :lol:
     
  7. Mareika

    Mareika Captain Captain

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    Like Tachyon said in here post:" these two characters had an amazing chemistry and I would have loved to see something on the series "
    Yes!!Such UST between them are great to watch and I´m so sad that the writers gave us fewer and fewer in the last seasons. Like RB said "it`s completely written out."
    I think there would not been so many fanfic about those two if J and C had actually gotten together on screen. But some nice little J/C scenes at the very end of the season? A little hope for J/C had been good.

    What`s about the original concept of Workforce? I`ve never heard about that.
     
  8. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Both Janeway and Chakotay being on the planet Quarra and being romantically involved there instead of Janeway being involved with Jaffen.
     
  9. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Proxima Station - my new favorite place in Star Trek universe. ;)
     
  10. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, other J/Cers who have read Full Circle yet? [​IMG]

    Anyhoo - here's a J/C pic of the day called "Jealousy".

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Gates

    Gates Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    *Raises hand*
    I have! I have!
    Loved loved loved it!

    Wonderful picture, Tachyon!
     
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You do some nice Photoshop work, Tachyon. :)
     
  13. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Thanks P! :)

    Gates - I know you have and we have had some nice discussions about it already. Tee hee. Anyone else or are we the only ones?
     
  14. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, I intend to read FC, and I expect I'll enjoy it. I have it on my shelf. But there is a lot I want to read, and I kind of like the idea of reading it later in the year, when the sequel ("Unworthy") is closer to arriving (or perhaps has already arrived). The only books I drop everything to read are those that are part of a series in which I've already read every volume, like New Frontier ("Treason" was good; finished it yesterday) and the DS9-R (August can't come soon enough). I know you don't have to read the other Relaunch books to 'get' FC but I'm one of those geeks that likes understanding all the little references, and I've got a long way to go before I'm ready. But I'll hopefully get to it before the year is out.
     
  15. Madzilla

    Madzilla Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I've read Full Circle, and it left me feeling incredibly sad. But that's not to say that I didn't enjoy it, I did, very much indeed. Probably my favourite TrekLit book ever, and it made me love Chakotay even more. I don't think there's a Janeway fan anywhere who wouldn't feel sad at the end of FC. I still need to type up a proper review post; I guess I'm stil processing. I also probably need to reread bits of it, I did read it quite quickly.

    I'm not sure yet about Unworthy - not just because we know so little about it yet, but mainly because, as I mentioned on the other forum, I really, really don't want to read C/7. That's not to say I'm writing the book off completely, cos we don't know what's happening in it yet. I'm just going to try and find out before I get hold of it whether or not there's any in the book, and as such whether I read it or not.

    I know it sounds a bit drama queen-y to say that that pairing is a dealbreaker for me and I just won't read any book (or watch any episode, tee hee) containing it; it probably is. But for many fans, Janeway's death was a dealbreaker too, and they're not interested in reading Full Circle for that reason - which is fair enough, even though, as a Janeway fan, I enjoyed FC a lot (especially Proxima Station ;)). I won't read C/7 stories and I sure as hell won't pay for one.

    I really hope they don't get together as I do love Kirsten Beyer's writing. :) I wouldn't want to have to do what I had to do with Endgame and fast-forward through certain scenes. ;)

    Mad
     
  16. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Full Circle made me like Chakotay more too. And Tom also. For the first time ever I truly bought the idea of Chakotay as a captain and Tom as a first officer. J/C scenes were beautifully written, especially the Proxima Station scene. Chakotay was cautious, yet still very much willing to "get it on" with Kathryn.

    Personally I don't see C/7 happening. I could be wrong, though, but at the moment I just don't see it as a possible outcome. Perhaps I have missed something, because I have stayed out of all Full Circle drama for the last few days or so, so I have no idea whatsoever about the latest rumors around Unworthy. And to be honest, I don't wanna deal with it just now. (I'm waiting the upcoming movie more. Lol)

    I am interested about Unworthy, but still undecided if I will buy the book. I am very interested to know about Chakotay. And whose to know if Janeway will return someday. No one knows such thing yet.
     
  17. Frazzled

    Frazzled Commander Red Shirt

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    In a universe where Janeway is dead, would C/7 really be the end of the world?

    I want her to be resurrected and Chakotay to be still single so they can resume things .... but if that doesn't happen the idea of the two people she loved most together really isn't that bad for me, kind of comforting. And it wouldn't be so 'out of the blue' like it was in endgame, it would make far more sense for both of them now.

    (Ducking back below the parapet) don't flame me ... I'm totally against C/7 in a universe with Janeway alive in it, and since Pocket books killed her off I'm really pleased Kirsten Beyer got J/C together first!!
     
  18. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually, I'm with you F. C/7 doesn't bother me all that much, if Janeway is dead and remains as dead. I wouldn't see C/7 as an ideal couple, far from it, because they are just two people "on different frequences", so to speak. They were akward to watch on TV, so they are awkward to read as well. I just don't see them as a good match. But if it happens when Janeway is out of the picture for good, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. Janeway was his first choice and always remains as such.
     
  19. JC 1122312519

    JC 1122312519 Ensign Newbie

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    C/7 I just find very wrong and very uncomfortable to watch or read I'm afraid. I really don't like 7 so that doesn't help matters much. lol I'll see what happens anyway. There's no point getting in a flap about it yet, if ever. They're both in a difficult place right now and I'd be surprised if they did get together at the moment. Actually, maybe I wouldn't be so surprised, this is Trek, and particularly Voyager we're talking about. The direction it's gone in has shocked me on more than one occasion and mostly not in a good way.
     
  20. joyofvgr

    joyofvgr Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    For me it would be the end of the line for Trek. I'm half way out the door anyway. Actually, if it wasn't for J/C, I would have never found these message boards and become the fan I am today anyway. The only Trek novels I ever read were Golden's relaunch. She at least broke up C/7 and brought back the potential for J/C in the books.

    I looked forward to Full Circle, and had planned on reading some of the prior books like Pathways and Mosaic, until I found out that Janeway would remain dead. I even bought Distant Shores, because I wanted to read Isabo's Shirt, but I haven't even been able to get myself to read that yet! I figured I'd stick around and see what the reviews of Full Circle were like. Now I'll see what everyone says about Unworthy. If it seems that I would like the books regardless of Janeway's death, I might give them a shot at some point. But if they resurrect C/7 in lieu of Janeway, I'll be completely finished. Hey, at least you could say I would have closure right?

    Sure I realize that there's more to Trek than just J/C or Janeway, a lot more infact. But I was never that much of a fan until Voyager came along. I've never even seen DS9, so I'll be sure to catch that at some point. The new movie is due to come out soon, so I'll check that out. There's no reason to waste my time with a storyline that's going to make me sad or aggrevate me. Perhaps someday I'll change my mind, but it won't be anytime soon.